Clay Trades
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Honest
(5)
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Quality
(2.5)
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Cost
(2)
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Support
(5)
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Verified Trades
(1)
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User Experience
(2.5)
Summary
Tantalizingly close to being a recommended trading service based upon the honesty of the moderator. However, he refuses to disclose whether he even trades, whether he has an active trading account, what degree of success he trades, or whether he is using a simulated trading account, or an actual live account. Therefore, must pass.
User Review
( votes)Today’s review is ClayTrader, a stocks educational firm founded by “Trader Clay”. The website, located at claytrader.com offers the following products and services:
Risk Vs. Reward: Learn When to Buy And Sell Training Videos $395
Robotic Trading: Terminate Your Emotions $297
Options Trading Simplified: Understanding Options Trading Made Easy $197
Mastering Level 2: Quite Trading Blind $197
The Penny Stock Survival Guide: $197
The Cash Flow Creation Guide: $29
Shorting For Profit: Becoming A Well Rounded Trader $397
Trampoline Trading: $297
Volcano Trading $297
Clay Trader University: All Videos and Special Webinars $1997
Clay Trader Inner Circle Live Chat Room $99 monthly
Let me first start off by saying that I have not seen any of these video products, nor have I visited the Clay Trader Chat Room. I cannot tell you whether these videos are worth hundreds of dollars, or a complete waste of time. The Clay Trader website was added to my list of companies to review back in November 2014. From November to April 2015, I received approximately 20 requests to review the products, and the live trade room. On April 2, I began to actively review and research the products and services of Clay Trader.
Initial Observations Of Clay Trader
The first thing that you notice about Clay Trader is how professional and clean the website looks. Everything is well organized, there are plenty of pictures of Clay, lots of nice professional graphics, some well produced videos of Clay, a link to a well visited You Tube channel, the website is not full of spelling errors (unlike my website), the grammer of written material is easy to read and very well written. Its all very impressive and really should be a model for just about anyone selling an internet product. However, the one thing I did not find was any information on the individual trading track record of Clay.
Searching For A Track Record
When evaluating a trading educator, and his/her offering of trading products, the most important piece of information is the following:
- Does the trading educator trade, and do they have a track record?
- Is the track record published, and can I verify that the track record is real?
These are the only two factors that matter. We are looking to make a profit with our trading. We as consumers want to purchase products and services from educators that actually trade, and trade profitably. We are willing to spend our money. We are willing to risk our money on trades. We need help. We only expect that the trading educators be honest with us, and give us a fighting chance at surviving the difficult financial markets. We understand that our own personal trades will not be as good as the seasoned veteran, but we are only asking to follow trading educators that actually trade. You would think that this would not be such a difficult or outrageous request.
Poking Clay Trader
During the months of January, March and April, I made numerous requests to Clay about his own trading performance. My requests started benign and usually began with, Hey Clay I want to purchase these products, but I just want to make sure your trading information is coming from a successful trader. I would get various responses from Clay, all very cordial and very well crafted. He would say things like, “This is a not a trade calling service” and “We are looking to teach people how to fish, not serve fish”.
My responses were also cordial. I would also say that I really want to send you $2,000 for all of your material, but I just need to verify that you trade. Is this really so outrageous? Clay wants me to send him $2,000 for his courses, and I am supposed to trust him.
During March and April, I turned up the heat a little bit. I next began to send cordial requests for trading performance using different email addresses, coming from different IP addresses. The purpose of this is attempt to see if the trading vendor will change the message, change the website, or respond in conflicting ways. I have to say, to much my chagrin, Clay stayed on message and responded exactly the same, over and over again, to many different personas. In addition to Clay staying on message and not attempting to bullshit me, I also followed his blog and read everything that he published into the trading community. I found Clay’s articles to be well written and helpful. In fact, one article that he published titled: 6 Multi Monitor Stock Trading Laptop Setups I found to be especially helpful and I used to build a new trading computer.
I certainly do enjoy poking Clay Trader about not disclosing trading performance. However, I cannot poke any holes in his blog where he posts a whole host of very useful trading information. No specific trading advice, but lot of good advice in general. All well written, well researched, and certainly deserves a lot of credit.
Poking Clay, Until I Need To Be Slapped
On April 29, 2015, I got slapped. Clay published a video onto his You Tube Channel titled: Stocks and Options Trading, Do You Need To Be Slapped? I am pretty sure that my constant poking and harassing of Clay, from many different personas and angles probably inspired Clay to create the video. What is included in the video? I have embedded the video below. The basic premise of the video is that anyone looking for actionable trading signals from Clay, or any other trading room is not learning to be a “professional trader, they are only learning to be a professional sheep”. Fair enough. However, Clay makes the gross assumption that a person simply cannot purchase trading signals, that simply purchasing trading signals equates to a 90% lose rate for the trader. This is flawed thinking, on many levels. Let me explain…Firstly, I own mutual funds and someone manages these funds, thus providing trading signals and giving me expert guidance. I also own rental real estate that has earned me rental income and steady profits for years, I paid a Real Estate Broker that specializes in rental property to find the property. He also manages the property and watches the market for me, alerting me to additional acquisitions and recommending when I should sell my property. I also invest in a commodity trading pool, which is managed by 20 year money manager that specializes in grain futures. This manager know when to buy and when to sell. He has a 20 year track record. I invest with him specificially because he has a track record. This track record gives me idea of what to expect. But the logic of Clay is not logical, instead Clay is attempting to confuse the viewer. Watch the video, and admittidly Clay makes a pretty good argument, unfortunately it probably works on the naive or those unable to process logical thought.
[fvplayer src=”” width=”560″ height=”315″]
What Annoys Me Most About This Video
The first 10 seconds of Clay’s video, he announces that anyone that does not agree with his logic, needs to be slapped. He then attempts to spin the next 10 minutes of the video. Attempting to create the argument that the trading history of a trading educator is irrelevant. That the prior published history and track record of a trading educator has zero benefit in evaluating any possible future benefit. This is insane! My god Clay, if I am hiring a trading educator, I want to know that he trades. I want to know that he practices what he preaches. I want to know that the educational materials that he wants me to spend my money on, is something that he uses successfully, every single day. Should we just hope that you actually trade successfully? Should we just trust the nice website and well produced videos? She we purchase your products and then invest our trading account on a set of principles that you yourself do not practice? Are there really enough rubes out there that purchase your trading products on just hopes and conversation?
Getting Closer To The Truth
On May 1st, I think that I might of gotten the answer that I was finally looking for. After going around and around, Clay sent me an email that said, “Am I paper trading? It could be.” and “I make no claims of having a winning %, I make no claims of making money, I am just a normal, average guy that teaches for the money”. Clay admitted to me that he is proud of the fact that he earns more from his teaching, than from his trading. An amazing admission that left me sort of speechless.
Clay is also correct, nowhere on his website does he post an account statement, any screenshots of account statements, any records of trades, never does he advise to the buying or selling of anything whatsoever. Yes, he does post You Tube videos of trades, after the fact, but he makes no claims that he actually traded anything. And yet, people buy his products and services on the perception of trading success.
My Personal Opinion Of Clay
I do believe that Clay is an honest guy. He puts a lot of hard work into his blog and there is absolutely no deception whatsoever. He is not on Profit.ly posting fake trades, like many others. He does not have screen shots of dubious trading account records. He does not claim $20,000 in profit every week, like many. In fact, he claims no success at trading whatsoever. So why am I defending Clay? In my heart, I believe that Clay is probably a winning trader. Not a big winner by any means. But he knows enough about the markets that it would be safe to conclude that he probably does make a profit. And I also believe that if he were to submit trading records, then his returns would be probably be paltry and embarrassing when compared to the loads of BS we see floating around the internet.
My Personal Hope
Maybe, if enough of us, make enough noise then perhaps we can convince Clay into simply giving us a % that he earned for the month. Or something like, “I made $350 this month, but at least I didn’t lose money”. Anything Clay, please just give us something. I am rooting for you and hope to give you a new review in a few weeks.
Thanks again for reading. Please do not forget to leave your comments below.
I find it interesting that the people leaving the negative comments are the people who have never purchased his courses, but I appreciate the people who have purchased his courses and leave an honest review on what they got out of it. I’ve been following him on YouTube and making the move to learn more.
Did you find this review helpful? Yes No
Clay is not a trader, he has a few scalping tricks that he uses on fast moving stocks, that work out from time to time, but he is not interested in trading. His videos are commercials to get people to pay for his course and chat room. He is consistently trading against trend and seldom stays in a trade for more than a minute and seldom trades for more than the first hour of the day. He basically says the same things every video. If you call him on some of his poor decisions his stock answer is that you are a hindsight trader. He is the last person anyone should follow to learn how to trade correctly. I’m sure his course has some trading basics and you can learn a few things, but most of that info is available free or at minimal cost. If 2000 people sign up to his minimum level, then he makes a million dollars. That is his interest, not the market. He only posts videos where he makes money or has a slightly red day. He is a fraud.
Then if he is a fraud. Who do you recommend following to learn how to trade as a complete beginner? I am serious about learning and even ready to invest money to learn the trading market but I just want to make sure my money will be worth it
Try these. They’re free and no worse than any guru who will charge you thousands for the same information.
https://www.swing-trade-stocks.com/
https://www.marketlifetrading.com sign up for the free membership to access their trading course
http://swing-trading-strategies.com/
I forgot to include this one: https://www.tradingschools.org/best-stock-strategy-review-part-1/#comment-5061072
Ha! In my head, I have this funny pitted battle between Ross Cameron (Warrior Trading) and Clay, the latter being the underdog. Purely for the reason of so much subtle misdirection from Ross, I am rooting for Clay. Clay, just give us something!
But then again, he has no incentive to do so. If his conversion rate was adversely affected by an uptick in others calling out potential BS in his content, I think he might. But as of now, I am betting he is comfy in the fact his education money machine will keep zooming along just fine without having to feel like he has to submit proof that he successfully trades what he teaches.
sigh…
I don’t know what to think any more, hope clay answer.
be sure to update after reading this https://thestockcop.wordpress.com/2016/09/01/clay-trader-exposed/
Ouch. That’s ugly.
This morning, the IC (inner circle) were mocking people in wheel chairs. Most of the people aren’t too bad but there is a VERY strong clique.
AGAIN i found this guy good ,over the years,again free vids and i purchased his vids 1/6 of the price. online from other info sellers.there okay no harm done. AND he appears too show his latest win loss statements. nothing fantastic but steady steady wins the race.Idont care about these gurus statements,my statement is the only one that counts. and thats staying a secrete.HE has a natural physiology aura about himself and projects it well in his vids.BUT no flash cars,maybe a house with kids and his wife.I find that too be another honest attribute.another way too learn just join http://www.tradingview and join real traders and wrack their brains, there are some real good chartist traders there.cheap also.
I believed above review from ” Emmett Moore May 3, 2015″ is not truth at all. I just signed up the Clay Trader courses and chat room, if you have ever sign up the courses, and join the chart room, you will believed, he is a day trader and very knowledgeable. It is worth the money and time to invest our knowledge with Clay Trader ! – Lim
Good article on Clay from ClayTrader.com but there’s just one important clarification I’d like to add from my personal perspective. My hunch on Clay’s motivation with regards to teach for income instead of attracting customers with the old ‘I got RICH making trades with MY system and if YOU sign up You can TOO!’ – dime-a-dozen financial gurus out there is as follows: Since my late WW-II veteran Dad was a Stock broker for 50 years I think that I have an advantage as far as insight of the Wall street culture. I once asked Dad ‘what are the most important decision making factors people use when trading?’ Here I was expecting an in-depth explanation of various P/E ratio formulations but he simply and swiftly simply remarked ‘fear and greed’. That said, (and I don’t think Dad was being sarcastic) your take on Clay seems very fair as you state he’s a humble and nice guy but here’s my disclosure and personal perspective part. I am a member on Clay’s forums (which he only charges only $99 a year for). The amount you learn just from watching Clay coach people willing to learn about safer investing techniques is certainly worth more than that. Now about MY opinion of why he raises his teaching to a higher priority level than allowing himself to sucked into a discussion that inescapably would take a turn into the braggadocio world of those dime a dozen types I eluded to earlier – and its simple and one he wouldn’t mention as that in itself would risk being a bragger. Clay is humble because he has a world view that is rare in trading circles. and as far as I can tell he doesn’t boast about where that comes from that either but if I’m correct it comes from a little-respected element known as faith in God and more specifically in Christ. Jesus taught that it’s better to train a person to fish for themselves than it is to give a man a fish. That sincere kind of motivation is what separates the humble from the braggarts in ANY industry and so in the case of Clay choosing to teach trading at all levels it is simply a WIN-WIN for those us who try to manage our own accounts. I have plenty of stories as to why I don’t trust the professional fund managers for managing my accounts in a way that had my fiduciary interest at heart as much as where Clay’s personal motivation comes from does. (no offense Dad, if you can hear me up there!)
Oh for crying out loud. Adding Jesus into it makes suspicion worse. Plenty a charlatan is a believer in that guy. Anyone’s religious beliefs are irrelevant. Some people can believe if they dare cheat a person they will end up in the pits of Hell guaranteed and they will still do it and apologize in prayer later. So stop.
I think Clay has developed a god complex. New guy joins the chat group and makes a mistake of sharing a trade mistake he made. Immediately, the IC ( inner circle) elite IC jump on his back telling him what to do. The new guy had a different opinion on what he should do with HIS trading account and then they all mocked him, calling him names, demanding he purchase the course, and if not, what is he doing here anyways. That went on for some time. Next morning in the chat room, new guy says ” good morning” and the mocking begins anew. He asks ” What did I do? I just said good morning”. One from the inner circle ” elite” pipes up and says, ” Time to block him. No, ban him”. Then they all chime in to ban/block him. I thought of the book, ” Lord of the Flies”. Some guy joins to try to improve himself and because he did not conform to their demands on what he should do with his account, he gets lambasted, ostracized. Clay has a habit of calling others that don’t agree with him, trolls.
I’ve heard him mention church a few times in podcasts. I wonder if someone who is looking for direction in life goes to that church to find what he’s missing and if he doesn’t believe immediately their view of God, would he gang up on that person, get all the other members to poke fun, ridicule, name call that person?
He’s done a webinar with a live guest where for the first ten minutes, they experienced technical problems. The guest and him spent that time with childish, bathroom humor insinuating baby oil and themselves. I thought what a waste of my time. What are other’s thinking? Others from the chatroom thought it was very funny. It must have been edited as it was also for the general public but, what a bunch of children.
I wonder if other sites to train for trading are like this?
I’ve noticed in my interwebz travels that it tends to be the case that communities turn into cliques. Sad but true. I noticed myself doing it in the craigslist discussion forums so I quit there. But at least I can say there was no moderator there. For places with moderators, it can get decidedly worse of the moderator fancies him- or herself to be the head of the clique.
Came across your site when looking for information on Clique fund. Thanks for the straight forward review and keeping me from wasting my time.
Figure I’d weigh in on Claytrader as its were I started and made an actual investment into his university suite of courses. My experience with all of his service’s has been positive. In terms of real trades, its my opinion that all his Youtube videos are in fact real trades. I split my trading between TOS and Lightspeed. TOS allows a free paper trading account were Lightspeed does not. After a 2 week period, the demo account is deactivated. You can request for an extension for 2 weeks at a time but its not a service they offer and they are quick to point that out. The point here is that he lists many years of live trades and if you look closely, the video releases adhere to a schedule like many of his other regular posts. I wish he would post more live trades as I enjoy watching his style of trading.
In terms of trading statements, he has shown monthly trading statements for University members but I think he tries very hard to differentiate himself from others who post bogus statements or make false claims publicly. For reference, the few that I have seen were current month at the time and showed daily profit ranges above what he shows on Youtube. Not sure if this is purposeful but it does create an atmosphere where subscribers feel comfortable posting consistency and cost basis wins over large numbers.
I think what throws people with Clay himself is that they take their misgivings about other trading personalities and the seedy industry of Trading Education and get upset or disappointed when they don’t find the yellow brick road to easy success. Its not a place where you’re going to get intraday alerts with a defined trading strategy. It is however a great place to learn the basics upfront, be apart of a trading room catered to alerts for volume and common setups, and be able to participate in inclusive ongoing education.
I don’t believe Clay trades that much as he is busy promoting t-shirt style but I did get one of his option course. The cheap one. It was actually pretty good. He spends a lot of time using nice graphics and images. It is not a course where he is just talking with the same screen for the whole time. I won’t subscribe to his University for sure but for the lone course I got I can tell you that there is WAY WORSE out there. Where he really dropped the ball in his course is that in order to show some movements in price he ends up day trading some puts and calls… which is clearly not the way to go unless you are a specialist like Kevin at watchhimtrade. I also noticed that Clay’s courses tend to have a LOT of hours for the price so based on how much efforts and imagination he deployed for the course I have seen I have so say I saw some value.
As for the $99 a year thing, it did not work for me. Guys are exchanging pictures of their breakfasts on Saturdays, talk basketball. Totally unfocused. As for the chat room, Clay’s genius is that he has renamed almost everything like a pennant and stuff like that into stuff like Play number 5. Then that’s where the REAL marketing genius kicks in: when a newbie comes in and ask WTF is PLay # 5… all the sheeps in there (his regulars) will tell the newbie that he needs to buy the courses, etc. Clay enforces strict discipline in the trading chat room. Zero breakfast there. Only trading. However his army of lemmings do the heavy lifting for him. That’s the reason I did not renew. If you can’t call a pattern by it’s well-known official name and think I am stupid enough to spend $2000 for his University, then it is a mistake. All that being said I would not have signed anyway as Clay does not trade… He is way more noble than that: he sells courses to show people how to fish 😉 The rest of the lemmings in the room is a combo of option traders, day traders, long term traders: totally unsuitable for beginner. If you want to learn penny stocks go to a specialist who is not afraid to take a shot in front of you. Same for swing, etc. The only saving grace is that this carnival of opinions is only $99 a year… which is cheap.
After reading Clay Trader’s review on this site I went over to you tube and watched his live trading videos. I don’t know if his paid material is of any value because I have never paid for any. However, if his live trading videos are any indication of what he teaches the small retail trader then he is creating very bad habits that take losses and time to correct. He basically plays trades that gap and he will throw out orders most of the time against the gap and when it goes against him he will add to his position. In some videos, the man covers the trade for a small profit after being down 6 or 7 times the small profit he eventually takes. His risk reward is all out of whack. Now some will say that is his style and it works for him. That’s fine, but for anyone with a live trading account, real money, that averages down until they have profit will definitely blow up one day. It is guaranteed there will be that day where the stock never comes back and before you know it is too late. IMO, if that is what he puts out there for new young traders to emulate then he is not thinking about his client’s best interest. There must be better videos for him to show his “live” trading.
I saw similar shenanigans in Ross of Warrior Trading’s room where he often did his “gap and go” “strategy”. Similarly he would edge out a small profit most days with his bogus trade calling without a dom and average down when the trade went against him. (then you wonder with all his small profits how could he claim on the site to make tens or hundreds of thousands just months later) The “other” red herring trader would supposedly “hold on” to a trade overnight and claim the next day he added to it and “got out” at positive where I recall some member commented “big pockets”, because the amount added would have required a big account so I bet it was just a sim sham for show. So for WT, maybe not as often as Clay’s averaging down, but imo any averaging down is bad enough when exiting for a small profit which imo shows no real managing trade plan or my worst suspicions is the host is on a sim account as usual otherwise how could they game a losing trade so badly. I think Clay’s trading is the worst type to teach any newb and I wonder if he’s even serious about it knowing it’s playing with overleveraged dynamite so imo, it must be sim disguised in some tricky way.
I was pretty neutral on Clay for awhile. He wasn’t trading what he preached to me for some time, but he never posted results. He sent out emails supposedly showing his February and March results. His “bad” February was 16 for 19 wins and his improved March was 21 for 23 wins. I did reply to his youtube.
“If I recall right, you were always wanting people to “lose good”. You lost poorly. Your wins on average are far lower than your losses. In February, your big loss was almost double your best win. In March, once again you lost more on average than your mainly $100-300 wins. You had your CEO mode or whatever, so they could give those trades time to work. I often noticed your trades you posted a minute or less. So, maybe you’re not giving your wins room to win. Seems like you should still give yourself an F for both months for not following your own teaching. Your win rate is quite high as well in both months. You lost 2 of 23 trades in March? Incredible streak there. You lost 3 of 19 in your “bad” February. You would likely be calling out some other trade for those kind of win rates. Is it possible to win around 90%? sure, but the odds scream cherry picking what is being shown.”
Clay is a fraud. You will not really learn to trade from him. He has a habit of not practicing what he preaches and his “results” now that he posted some are the kind no trader would have ever hidden from the World. 90% win rate? He’d sell a million subscriptions trading that live. If he was hitting around 90%, he would be trying to cram his results down your throat the second you showed up as a newbie trader.
I was in his chat for a short time. I never paid for his “university”, because it was a joke. there was nothing there I hadn’t been taught by someone with real experience. Once awhile back, his shill Chezz (whom I believe has also shilled for Sang Lucci in the past), tried to basically bully me in chat about options. I didn’t understand or know what I was talking about. I’ve had years of experience with options all the back to the 90s. When I asked if he had 5+ years of track record to back up his claim, he didn’t of course. He simply hadn’t seen the downside of the strategy he was trying to pawn off on me. Clay had done a video, and that made it absolute fact. Clay learned option about a year or so ago. He has little to no real experience with them. Just a typical bully chat to jump new people and hard sale with the chat zombies piling on.
This man portrays himself as a regular guy, but he is out to clean your last dime and give you nothing in return. If you watch his you tube videos of his live trades then you can see for yourself how dangerous his strategies are for new traders or anyone with a small account. He would short a gap stock and when it goes against him he claims that he is looking to build a larger position. Many times he is down six or seven times more than his net result when he closes his position for a marginal profit. Eventually that will blow out your account for sure. The fact that he charges traders for that type of education is reckless.
Emmett, I think you should probably update your review. Clay verifies a trading account and his gains and losses… and yes they are not exorbitant… but I’d take that over much of the other hype. PS you’ve written some rather nasty but entertaining reviews of all the other traders, though some of the one’s you’ve propped up are kind of fraudulent so that and only that makes me question your motives… I don’t want to but you don’t exactly have a clean record… once a charlatan always a charlatan… PS I am not defending anyone… I just think nobody but yourself can teach you how to trade and some of your positive reviews after the companies contact you seem to be… well… let me put it delicately… concerning… you seem to work on the premise that they have an obligation to disclose everything otherwise they are BS… but this does not apply for some of the others… also for some of the positive ones that you write… something just does not seem right… https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=220&v=0Yw52CM0yZ0
Is Clay now verifying trades? That’s great, if true. I will take another look and hopefully get a new review written. My main motivation is pushing the industry towards transparency. In the past two years, the trend is definitely shifting towards transparency. Not saying that I had anything to do with it.
It is certainly true that I do not have a clean record. It is true that I was a really terrible human, charlatan, scoundrel, all of the above. And its also true that I fight temptation every single day. So its good that you remind me of my past, and to let me know that you are watching.
It is important to note that people are always in a state of change. What was a scammer today, with the proper motivation can be decent educator tomorrow. And who is decent today, has the capacity of being terrible tomorrow.
Thank you for writing.
ClownTrader short stocks …period.
I think Clay has developed a god complex. New guy joins the chat group and makes a mistake of sharing a trade mistake he made. Immediately, the IC ( inner circle) elite IC jump on his back telling him what to do. The new guy had a different opinion on what he should do with HIS trading account and then they all mocked him, calling him names, demanding he purchase the course, and if not, what is he doing here anyways. That went on for some time. Next morning in the chat room, new guy says ” good morning” and the mocking begins anew. He asks ” What did I do? I just said good morning”. One from the inner circle ” elite” pipes up and says, ” Time to block him. No, ban him”. Then they all chime in to ban/block him. I thought of the book, ” Lord of the Flies”. Some guy joins to try to improve himself and because he did not conform to their demands on what he should do with his account, he gets lambasted, ostracised. Clay has a habit of calling others that don’t agree with him, trolls.
I’ve heard him mention church a few times in podcasts. I wonder if someone who is looking for direction in life goes to that church to find what he’s missing and if he doesn’t believe immediately their view of God, would he gang up on that person, get all the other members to poke fun, ridicule, name call that person?
He’s done a webinar with a live guest where for the first ten minutes, they experienced technical problems. The guest and him spent that time with childish, bathroom humor insinuating baby oil and themselves. I thought what a waste of my time. What are other’s thinking? Others from the chatroom thought it was very funny. It must have been edited as it was also for the general public but, what a bunch of children.
I wonder if other sites to train for trading are like this?
Clay is extremely manipulative. He is a very clever wordsmith.
I am a member of Clay’s CTU. What he offers is real trading knowledge. As others have said… you can find trading information on the internet for free. The problem is weeding out the good information from the bad information. So… you can learn on your own for free. However, how long will it take you and how much is your time worth? The amount of information Clay provides with the CTU membership is enormous. Not only do you have access to all of his courses (past, present, and future) you also have access to “CTU only” videos (past, present, and future), all of the webinars (past, present, and future), and a lifetime membership to the chat rooms.
He has a live webinar every week for CTU members. I find the webinars to be of extreme value. It’s like a mini refresher session each week.
Clay runs a tight ship. As far as the chat rooms, there is a lounge where you can chat about (most) anything. There are 2 alert rooms where members post alerts throughout the trading day. The alert rooms are strictly business. There is no “Puppet Trading” going on in any of the chat rooms. You will not find a bunch of sheep waiting for their leader to tell them when to buy/sell. You will find serious traders learning from each other how to make a profit in trading.
If you’re looking for a “Get Rich Quick” scheme, good luck. If you’re looking for education on trading the markets to build your portfolio, I would suggest Clay’s courses. You can purchase the courses and access to the chat rooms individually, or you can buy the CTU membership and have it all plus all of the extras I mentioned earlier.
If you’re on the fence about spending $2000… I get it. When I joined I paid the $99 fee for access to the chat rooms. This is good for one year… but after a week I saw enough to convince me that the CTU membership was the way to go.
Side note… I have personally met Clay. He is one of the most humble guys I have ever met.
But is it true he takes industry standard terms and gives them “boutique” names? Oh… maybe you won’t know. lol But if he does, you’re stuck relearning it all if his site goes away. It also means you’ll have a hard time getting second opinions elsewhere.
“I have a question about Cutie-Patooties. Am I obligated to sell?”
You mean a PUT option?
“Huh? Also, for Calling all Cars, am I obligated to buy?”
You mean a CALL option?
“What’s a what now? And about those Double Dribbles, will I need a wee wee pad?”
Hey! I have barely started learning about trading. I was about to buy clay’s courses, but it meant too much money for me and here I have found many other reasons not to.
If any of you are still active I would apreciate some help here. I have tried to gather what’s essential and best to start learning from. Through out the comments there’s some books (great and thank you) but I’m also looking for forums or information sources that are reliable.
Claytrader is indeed one. But as discussed here, unless you pay (and even paying) you don’t get much.
Thanks in advance.
Thank you so much for exposing this piece of shit garbage! I was watching his you tube videos and the website and wow those videos looked so convincing. I was ready too sign up right away. Of course I had too first do my due diligence and came too handy dandy trading schools. At no surprise, no track record! This asshole is major trash, think about how many newbies get sucked in with those promising you tube videos and blow thru there entire life savings thinking they can also do the same. Sad!
So check out this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hirjcgn6o9g
Well dodgy trade where he must have had big drawdown on 1000 shares on the second bar!
Every week I get at least one email saying how wonderful his strategies and trading methods are and how people who have signed upto his Claytrader University are making tens of thousands. Yet, if you look at his youtube channel he’ll do a video once in a blue moon where he supposedly makes at the most, 3-4 hundred. Pure BS.
Just had an email from this guy which made me chuckle:
Subject: It’s Black Friday… My Training Courses are…
NOT being marked down even a penny! This is my favorite time of year as it shows me who in the business is truly confident in their training courses and who is not.
Yeah, Yeah – it’s super difficult to sit there and “say” how great your training courses are (sarcasm font), but when it comes time to put your money where your mouth is and “walk-the-walk”, I love seeing who is simply just looking to sell stuff.
It’s a total contradiction to say how confident you are in your teachings, but then discount the very thing by 30% (or more in many cases). The training course space is NOT retail. There is no physical merchandise, so it’s not like a store who needs to move product because it’s taking up literal space in their store. This stuff is all digital, it takes up NO physical space.
Anyways, I get the question every year, so I’m going to be proactive. I will not be offering any Black Friday or Cyber Monday deals. When I say I believe in my training courses and offer them at a fair price, I honestly mean it… and those aren’t words. You’ll see me take action by doing nothing at all in regards to “40% off sales”.
Yes, I’m a bit passionate about this topic! These are the things that give us teachers such a bad reputation in the first place. I totally understand why people think we’re scam artists when so many talk about how great they are, but their actions don’t match up when they are offering steep discounts.
I’ll stop… if you want to listen to me rant more about this, you can watch this video of mine HERE.
I hope you all had a great Thanksgiving! My kids were sick so we had to stay home, but my awesome wife still cooked us up a storm as you see HERE.
Clay
P.S. Thanks to all of you who have served or are currently serving in our armed forces. I am very thankful for what you do for all of us in providing us with all the freedoms we have. Thanks!
have been a member for two years, Clay teaches you how to trade, and not to just follow or in his terms “puppet trade” another trader. teach a man to fish…its that simple. some people cannot grasp that notion or are maybe just too lazy to trade on their and should just hire an investment adviser instead. if you’re serious about becoming a real trader yourself, this is it.
content is repetitive and for very few outliers who can replicate his strategy. he promotes goofy names and terms for common sense knowledge to get people to buy courses thinking its the next best thing. many promote his courses in the chatroom even though very few turn profits in the long term.
Claytrader is BULLSHIT. He randomly chooses stocks with higher than average volume. Honestly, you would be better off reading tea leaves. He is annoying if anything else. Invading forums with his bogus stock analyst. What a joke. smh
Clay is a hell of a BULLSHITTER. A PhD in pretzel logic.
Clay is a charlatan and basically makes stuff up as he goes along. He’s been so dead wrong on the majority of stuff he predicts that even random chance beats the hell out of his sharting ‘anal’ysis. Clay is a doofus.
ClayTrader is one big fat SCAM.
Plenty of evidence right in front of your eyes.
Just watch the beginning of this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQzSpc7TvvA
He would NEVER HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SHORTSELL @ $56.10, while the market CLEARLY was at $56.03 (BID) !!!! NEVER WAS AT $56.10 BY FAR !!
With 1,500 shares to be sold, he wouldn’t MOST LIKELY never get that fill price, but at least $0.03 to $0.10 lower than $56.03, especially given the weak market. However he is faking it, this clearly is NOT REAL TRADING.
OPEN YOUR FREAKIN EYES AND WAKE UP !!
You will never see his “working orders” on the public LEVEL 2. I promise you.
And his fills will never count-up any real volume.
Because his trades DO NOT exist in the real market.
Oh yeah, but he has also “losing” trades, therefore HE MUST BE REAL !!
… … NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Wake the fuck up. He came along with his rare “losing” trades, when even the most naive and most gullible of YOU sheep became suspicious about his wonderful timing and godlike foreknowledge.
By all standards of ethics, decency and morality, this ClayTrader guy deserves to be hung on the next tree. I do not write this with hate, but rather sadness in my heart.
How can this piece of shit take money from people and giving them in return nothing but LIES and FALSE HOPE by offering them this COMPLETELY WORTHLESS CRAP he calls “education”. It makes me wanna vomit so bad.
How can he still sleep with peace of mind ?
How can he still look in the mirror ?
After all, a real man, deep inside his heart must know he did nothing wrong.
He knows he is UNABLE to make a SINGLE DIME in the markets on the long term, when trading REAL MONEY under LIVE conditions, therefore he is trying to sell you worthless “education”, which will enable you to be just as “successful” as he is.
He has nothing of value to contribute, except deception and misleading bullshit.
Even traveling entertainers are WAY ABOVE this guy.
ClayTrader should rather get HONEST and become a BEGGAR ON THE STREET.
Don’t give your 2 bucks to this entirely dishonest guy, rather give them to beggars or the homeless.
When you see the gratitude and smile in their face, you at least get something HONEST in return, and it will make you feel happy.
This guy will only help you LOSE YOUR FEW RAINY DAY SAVINGS by suggesting you are “ready to trade” or you can do just as well as him.
If you are average, then: NO YOU CANNOT. PROBABILITY DICTATES IT.
Only 1 out of 20 people have the SLIGHTEST CHANCE of trading successfully, and it will require at least some basic understanding of randomness, determinism, equilibrium, mathematics (quantitative finance), statistics and risk management.
If i would be ClayTrader’s father, i would beat the SHIT OUT OF HIM DAY AND NIGHT for a whole week at least. Then maybe while he lies in hospital for 7 months, he has plenty time to think about his wrongful behaviour and how much damage he may have caused to other people whom he misled into losing their hard-earned money while being completely unprepared to face the markets.
What a wanker.
Wow, you caught him flat lying. Newbie traders would never see this. But its obvious to the trained eye.
And he was Martingaling too. Adding to the loser trade until it was 3 times the normal size he was faking. He let it go against him 1200+, then took it off when it retraced to 150 in profits. My goodness!
Martingaling like that, i.e. averaging down the whole account is what 90% of failed traders do, but it’s never reported or discussed in forums or anywhere but the brokers know all about it. It’s one of the awful truths of retail trading because the failed traders have no idea what to do when the scam system they were sold fails. This goes for 99% of retail scam vendors too when they used to trade their live accounts before becoming a monthly churning shamshow. Many of them have got so tied up in the retail trading dream they feel they have no choice except to become shamshow meisters themselves and start ripping off other newb retailers. The big ugly truth of averaging down that you won’t find in a typical compromised trading fio-“forum”. Only when the CFTC subpoenas, will the averaging down blowouts be revealed like SoT.
I hope your trained eye isn’t committing murder to the most precious thing of all, money. Watch the pause and resume, keep your “trained eye” on the level 2, especially the tape.
If anyone is still in doubt where the price of this stock reached, you can research it. TOS does have a pretty sweet trade on demand option where you can specify a date. Use a tick time frame and watch how it moves, or use the two minute like he is.
You guys need to give it up….
God-is-a-math-genius, you are wrong. If you ever watch Clay’s videos, he will pause and resume the video depending on how long it takes for his order to get filled because he wants to keep the vids to a few minutes rather than an hour+. When his order is filled at 56.10 you can clearly see his video was paused since the top of the candle wick jumps a few cents without the body of the candle raising that high. That’s why you dont see that order on the level 2.
When he buys the order back you can clearly see that there are 11,000 shares on the level 2 at $56.00 on the ask. 1,500 of those 11k shares are clay’s. Don’t come on these websites typing in all caps and slandering people because you don’t know what is going on. It only makes you like an idiot.
Yes, this is very clear if you know a little bit about how candlesticks work. Earlier on my path to becoming a trader I actually believed in this website to help guide me on the best material to purchase. Now I see that Emmett Moore is the one caught lying about his experience. How can someone who doesn’t know one of the basics of candlesticks be trusted to review trading education?
Why does one need to be a Candlestick expert to verify a tradings room track record? Do you think when the Gov. regulators crack down on these con artist they are candlestick experts? Of course not. Clay refused to verify that he trades and refuses to verify the existence of a trading account. No track record. No proven history of trading success.
You do not need to be a candle stick expert to see a con artist. But being a past con artist to smoke out other con artist probably helps to see the scam a mile away.
Gosh I hope this is not the Vlad that use to have a picture and posted regularly.
@ Rob B – Let’s hope not or the world wide epidemic of stupidity will have claimed another victim.
While it’s true, the “best reviewed” sites on Tradingschools are really nothing more breakevener, sometimes teens who can’t make more than McD’s burger flipper in year without a monthly churn fee of client observers, TS does a good job of vetting the vast majority of these shammers which is 99.99+%. i.e. the real profiteers making a living from live trading would not even sell a shamshow to begin with. Which is a historical quantum leap of difference from any other compromised fio-forum or review site out there. Well elitetrader is getting better, but it’s still inhabited by a bunch of wrbraider-like infestors.
One of the best things about Clay is following is EOD video’s he posts on twitter. He shows the hard break through points and breakdowns candle stick performance of some of the “popular penny stocks” buzzing around twitter feeds. I recommend following these. There is usually a good space for profit the next day depending on the stock setup.
Everyone on Wall Street is selling the same bullshit. There’s no real innovation. No one actually tells you specifics, least f which is Clay. The book has been written a thousand times over by a thousand different authors.They all tell you the same information. I’ve come across Claytrader’s video’s via stocktwits and I’d be in awe of his acumen as a newbie that didn’t know the difference. But, he literally says nothing in a whole bunch of words. I surmise his market knowledge as average to slightly above average. And, to me that means he knows very little. The issue though is when someone finds the Holy Grail or some special secret in the market. Do you think they’re really going to share that for free? I’ve spent years studying the market in true dedicated form. I don’t believe in indicators. Although, I used to place enough weight on them to learn them. A worthwhile exercise in futility. That is you should learn them all, figure out what’s really going on (how they really work, what they really mean). Then learn how to apply them and when you determine that they’re all lagging indicators, you’ll abandon them just as I did. ,when you reach that point, you’ll chuckle @ people when they tell you about the golden cross, or tell you the price in at the bottom or top of a loosening Bollinger band. You’ll might alsi, if you can think for yourself learn to apply the Dow Theory tenets on faster time scales. You might employ the use of Japanese Candlestick analysis and after a while learn that your basic patterns have their own inherent shortcomings. And, then when you come of age and have made your own observations about how the market works and you know they work. and you know if anybody else has figured out what you have they haven’t shared that information because you’ve never seen anybody trying to sell it. You might think to yourself, ” I should probably keep my mouth shut.” and, so until I start serving up my secrets. You’ll be paying for the same hot air from different personalities. So, find somebody you like. If, i may and I receive no benefit from mentioning his name as we are not on speaking terms. David Colleti runs a decent service. I knew him as TradeWithPizzaDriver but his service is now called StocktradersHQ.com He’s still using the same old methods he was using back in the early 2000’s. And, I actually know Tom Willard personally. but, cannot vouch for his trading techniques. and, honestly. Neither of them know what I know. ,if you know what I mean.
“he literally says nothing in a whole bunch of words. I surmise his market knowledge as average to slightly above average. And, to me that means he knows very little”…great comment.
Yep, you hit it on the head. Clay is a wordsmith. A clever wordsmith, with no verifiable track record.
This reminds me. I happened to see the “moneyshow” roster. 1400 profiles listed. The cesspool of the previous generation of vendor scams. Some are cnbc pundits, media, and the like. Some are outdated. Then they have some of the worst vendor frauds in the mix like Jason Bond. “He is best known for his 2013 swing trading performance tripling the S&P 500 in the portfolio he manages. His small-cap swing trading ideas are widely published on numerous financial sites and blogs.” The site still has their yearly conference city gatherings of vendors and cruises, while the site is badly updated with a pre-topdog profile of Barry Burns, “PhD Founder and Owner, Jaguar Trading” with a mustache!
http://www.moneyshow.com/companies-and-experts.asp?pg=3&spk=t
Do we ask basketball team coach “show as your historical results as a player” ? Good coach not necessary is good player. As Clay doesn’t claim and he is profitable trader everything is ok. No?
Weak argument. Lets use a more appropriate analogy…and a bit of humor.
Suppose you are looking to learn how to sky dive. A guy has an awesome website and very creative YouTube videos on sky diving. However, he has never actually skydived. But he is great about talking about skydiving. Sure, you can trust him. But would you really trust a guy to learn how to wrap a parachute, and prepare the equipment, and know how to prepare for weather, and what about emergency situations like a wrapped cord?
Or, would you rather learn from a guy with that has over 2000 successful jumps and does it everyday?
You can go with the fancy marketing! I will go with the guy I can see jumping out of the plane and has 2000 successful jumps! Funny analogy, but true.
If you want to learn a practical approach to skydiving (trading stocks) from a guy that has a verifiable track record, you should consider B12 Trader.
Suppose you had to choose a QB coach for your first round pick. You have a choice between Payton Manning and Bob Fimpleberry. We know about Payton, but Bob Fimpleberry played some high school ball and is now running a website with some awesome video’s on “How anyone can become an NFL QB, just buy my instructional courses and you will get paid millions of dollars!”.
I bought the Fimpleberrry course, and learned it very well. I now am absolutely certain that I can win a Super Bowl. Fimpleberry’s course means that I am at least as good a quarterback as Peyton.
Why are you bashing Fimpleberry, when he is so awesome? He even wrote a book. Where is Peyton’s book?
Fiber,
I am going to respond to your coach analogy, because it urks me when people make apple and orange comparisons. A Day Trading Room (TR) Operator and educator is not the same as a Sports Coach. A more reasonable comparison would be to a money manager. When one decides to hire someone, you use some sort of Litmus test even if subconsciously. For a TR operator or Money Manager I would say the Litmus test is real proof they can trade profitably.
But for the heck of it, I will go with your sports coach analogy even though it is not equivalent. Off the top of my head there might be 2 reasons I might hire a sports coach. Reason 1, I just want to learn to play the game and have fun for purely entertainment purposes. For this reason my Litmus test for hiring such a coach would be a lot lower. But I really do not think anyone starts day trade for entertainment and purely for fun, instead they day trade to make money. So that leaves me with my 2nd reason to hire a sports coach and that is I am a professional athlete and want to make the professional team or maybe get on the Olympic team or even win the gold at the Olympics. In this case I am not going to hire some sports coach that says he has trained other athletes. I am going to look at the actual athletes and see their accomplishments and who they used for a coach. My proof is that I can actually see those athletes compete and win. I can see the basketball player in a game or the Olympic athlete winning the gold. That is my Litmus test for hiring a sports coach.
To continue with this analogy, first most Day Trading Operator show the jet style lifestyle and claim or imply they trade profitable. So there litmus test is to prove they Really trade profitable. But let’s say a TR operator says I cannot trade profitable but have taught others to trade profitably (I am not sure which TR operator makes this claim), then the Litmus test is those students must show proof they trade profitable. I am telling you a bunch of fake testimonials is meaningless. Until people demand actual proof they will be scammed again and again. It amazes me how many people throw money at these TR operators who show no proof what so ever they can trade profitably and sadly yes I have fallen into that camp. I am sooooooooooo ashamed. But that is why I a post here to warn others so they are not ripped off like I was. This unregulated industry is full of nothing but con artist. I realize it is hard to even believe how bad it is.
I was going to purchase the Robotic Sharpening class for $297 to help me with Charts Patterns but after reading this I may change my mind. Any other good outlets on Chart Patterns out there? Free or for Sale.
http://thepatternsite.com/ Great for patterns. Also search his books. As for learning patterns…. don’t need to learn them all, just your favorite 2 or 3 then really, REALLY focus on them, and how to trade the confirmations, breakdowns, failures, and failed failures. Having too much information in trading is just as detrimental to your career as not enough, IMO.
Tim, I’ve been reading Japanese Candlesticks and thinking “maybe I just need to learn 3-4 of these patterns and focus on them” but then I then backed off that convincing myself that would be dumb. But actually hearing it from someone else and the way you put it, totally makes sense! Too much info will be overkill. I appreciate your response, thank you. I also thank you for the website, I will take a look and definately use it
This is one of tradingschools’ earlier reviews where Emmett seems to give far too much credit. From reading it, I don’t see how this guy is any different from “Dr.” Barry Burns or Indicator Warehouse in terms of what is offered and bogus claims of successful trading and just regurgitate the same old techniques. This guy seems even worse than Preston James trying to pass off call and put options as something advanced. All these vendors have stopped trading live once they could make a few hundred from their selected “products”, and probably their systems have no trace of live trading platforms or accounts anymore. The only thing live is affiliate deals and tracking cookies they have with spam ad and data mining services.
What about Clay’s claim on his web site that he is the #1 ranked trader out of over 500,000 registered members on Investors Hub??? Anyone verify that??
Hi guys,
After following clay on YouTube and speaking to him on his site he always ALWAYS tells me to buy his course even when I asked for a simple answer to a simple question he is not willing to give any information for free at all and just refers you to buy his course. Does anyone have any recommendations on where I can find trading strategies as it seems like Clay is a waste of my money.
Cheers
Ash, search Tom Willard’s channel on Youtube. He’s got some free trading strategies as he is a former Pristine moderator with a decent amount of trading knowledge. Again, he’s got free info which may or may not help depending of what you need.
Thanks man this really helped
I was, repeat WAS a member and sadly purchased several of his courses. 90-99% of the information he ‘teaches’ you, can learn from some hard work on your own. Search google, download books, go to barnes and nobles, anything. If you’re serious about trading, do not rely on someone to teach you. Yes, I will say having a mentor or someone that can help coach you along your trading career is beneficial, but I would never look for that in Clay. For that I’d recommend downloading good paper trading setup, or physically paper trade, but you will want to be able to draw trend lines, at the very least.
He will provide specific setups in his training videos. However, These same setups can be found after the fact in nearly every day of trading which is where they come from for his training. He practices nothing, absolutely nothing of what he teaches. He has no consistent trading strategy or plan. For him, it’s ‘OOhhh, volume and price movement, let me short above price action or buy below and HOPE for a move of .10 in my favor.’ This guy risks thousands, sometimes over 10k for a mere gain of 50-100 per trade. Most of his youtube videos will show you this if you watch his p/l and notice how far he does go into the red.
I will give him credit where it’s due for creating a course and actually getting people to buy into it.
I joined his group shortly after it was created, and after purchasing his videos I’ll tell you summaries.:
Penny stock video = Penny stocks are not worth investing. You can trade them but 99% of the time it’s a waste of effort
Options simplified = Calls are for expected moves up; Puts are for expected moves down, There is NOTHING informative about that. He makes up some bullshit terminology only to confuse you
Robotic Trading = ALL OF THIS INFORMATION, ALL OF IT you can find with google searches far more in depth. EXTREMELY OVERPRICED FOR THE INFO PRESENTED.
Level 2 = This is where you can see large buyers/sellers. Again, search google and youtube for real time examples
Cash flow creation = All about limiting your expenses, this used to be a free vid he had on youtube
Risk Vs. Reward = Consistently look for opportunities where you are looking to gain at least 2x your risk.
Shorting for Profit = Decent setups and explanations of where shorts will be waiting, and how you can trade the sell side. (This one is actually decent) but a waste of time if you don’t have a margin account
Trampoline and Volcano trading = specific setups to scan for and wait for triggers.
In all honesty, i did not purchase these videos, but after my own scans and keeping hundreds of screenshots, I have developed my own method of scanning for these setup. After trial and error…ie….LOTS OF PRACTICE You will be able to see these too.
I hope this will save someone some money and reiterate that it’s best to learn for yourself. If you earn the information, it is MUCH more valuable.
Just watch some of his YouTube videos and you know what kind of “trader” he is… It’s sad but not shocking to hear others say his course is just regurgitated information you can find on the internet for free. If you want to hear my take on his style of trading, start this video at 5:40. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2qYMn_8hDw
I appreciate these exposure videos of “furus”, such as Warrior Trading. Appalling they use sim dollars to average down a big amount to make a few ticks to put on a show for their duped students . Any retailer trying to do this with real dollars would have risk of heart attacks every day. Direct link which starts right with the analysis.
https://youtu.be/U2qYMn_8hDw?t=5m50s
I watched a few of Clay’s trading video on YT and I can say with 100% that he’s no trader, he’s buying into a falling knife and keeps adding a couple of more times hoping for a pop, I was doing that when I first started trading, never mind selling subs and videos to others…sigh
Can’t comment on Clay’s products as I haven’t bought any, but in his video trades he’s using lightspeed which I don’t think is a virtual account as you can only use a limited number of tickers with the demo.
I am a member of clays chat room ad e is the most humble guy Ive met in the market. No bs at all. Hes happy with making 500 a day. he doesnt take any chanced or risks at all. a great teacher and mentor really
If he can’t prove that 500per day then it’s just marketing…
$500/day really isn’t that hard with options if you have a decent size trading account. If you’re smart and careful and watch technicals, you can be in and out in 30mins or less. Seriously. And I’m not here selling anything; I’m simply stating my personal experience.
With penny stocks and that sorts of garbage? Sure. Penny stocks are junk and a waste of basically everyone’s time and money. But I know Clay’s work, I like what he teaches and he tends to straight up say – don’t expect a huge moment on the daily. 1-5% is a great day. He’s all about technicals which are key in daytrading. The biggest key, really. A lot of the “teachers” out there will pump up these huge daily gains on bullshit penny stocks- they simply don’t exist. Maybe sometimes, sure. But on a daily basis? Nope.
But 5% on a 20k trade? That’s actually really easy trading options IF YOU LEARN AND TRADE SMARTLY. And who’s going to hate a grand in 15-30mins? I’m pretty happy with it.
I, personally, don’t employ and of his strategies specifically but I will say his video on options lead me to far more education from many external sources and it’s all I do anymore. So for that, I thank Clay.
Of course, I could be wrong about the guy as I don’t know him personally but I think – in all the research I’ve done – he’s a standup guy that certainly knows what he’s talking about. Just don’t expect him to hold your hand. And don’t expect to make a million dollars in a day.
I am a member of CTU – or in other words, I own all of Clay’s courses and a membership to the IC.
I would agree with much of your assessment. He definetely is a decent guy, but you can tell his focus is on the ‘business’ and not on trading. There is a strict no sharing of course information with non-CTU members, which makes discussing things sometimes difficult when the response by the community is ‘go watch the course again.’
That being said, the purchase of the CTU course was my first foray into the world of trading, and I would consider it a useful purchase. After going thru many of the courses, and then learning further from other websites/mentors, its clear that he is not trying to re-invent the wheel, but rather make the material more accessible to noobs. I find him to beat a dead horse quite a bit during some explnations, so I found myself playing the videos on 1.25 speed.
Bottom line for his courses: yes, you could find all the information elsewhere, but as a beginner, I’d say he does a fairly good job of covering much of the basics of what you need to get started. I split the cost of the courses with 2 friends, so from that perspective, the value was there.
Bottom line for the IC: don’t come here for entry/exit alerts. Clay provides an early morning watchlist of several tickers in play, however after getting a copy of ‘Trade Ideas’ software for myself, its easy enough to scan for the same gappers as he does. Throughout the day, Clay and other members post alers in the ‘Over $1’ room, however it is unclear if Clay takes these alerts himself. On certain days, he posts a screenshot of his P/L box, and posts live trade examples, but this doesn’t happen everyday so it’s hard to comment on his overall profitability. The is also a ‘Lounge’ section where members can talk about whatever they want – while I don’t find this particularly useful, I can see the value proposition at $99/yr for those traders who sit at home alone and want some sense of community. I find the community to be a bit ‘cliquey,’ so YMMV.
Thanks Emmett for what you’re doing here – keep up the good work.
Human beings are delusional creatures. We take our opinions from the herd and anchor to them, reacting with hostility when they are challenged. That doesn’t change when we enter the trading room. Most of us are pursuing a dream that doesn’t match reality. We want to be THAT guy with the Rolex, the man with eerie tape reading skills, nerves of steel, the skill to nurse a sick trade back to health rather than just closing it, and the ability to trade where we want, what we want, and when we want. Unfortunately, that’s all bullshit. None of this makes money. I’ve yet to find a real winner who is any of these things, which probably explains why real winners are usually humble, how they make money doesn’t earn them any respect.
I think we should take a step back and recognize that there are two typical trading education providers, those who understand they don’t have all the answers yet, but are excited to sell you what they do know, and those that understand they know nothing and just want to milk you. I don’t know Claytrader, but I have read some of his articles and see what I know reflected in his words. I certainly wouldn’t pay $2k for frigging George Soros to train me, but I’d be a fool to say someone who doesn’t have all the answers doesn’t have something to teach me.
In my opinion, trading is a jigsaw puzzle of a million pieces. We know: a)
We will die of old age before we know it all, and b) we might thing someone we meet knows less than we know, but we have to admit, they MAY HAVE THE PIECES OF THE PUZZLE WE NEED TO MOVE FORWARD.
It’s stupid and juvenile to focus on what an educator doesn’t know, the issue is: 1) What is he charging; 2) Can I afford what he is charging; and 3) Does he know something that will help me.
Hey, I’m no apologist. One $10k program cannot possibly teach you more than 40 $50 programs, or 500 free programs for that matter. You don’t hire a guru to teach you how to trade, you hire them to get you over an impass, to get to the next level. You are a fool if you dismiss this, and a greater fool to think you can spend yourself past an impass. If you can’t afford a reasonably priced shortcut to the learning curve, just work harder. This method is more effective anyway.
I’ve been doing this for a long time, over ten years. The most important thing in turning the corner from a highly proficient break even trader to a profitable trader is to flush everything you think you know about trading and approach it as an entirely new challenge. Take those skills you learned doing things exactly the same way as everything else and change your actions, what you do, so you get a different result.
Thanks.
I have been in the inner circle of Clay’s room. There are a few people that appear to be able to trade. However, if you watch for more than a few months, you will notice that only a very few might have any ability at long term consistency.
Clay pops trades he made up occasionally, or he claims to have made anyway. One of classes is supposed to have you manage your trade and go to “CEO mode”. However, Clay will then post a trade where he was in and out in 22 seconds. There is no “CEO Mode” there at all. He will then preach to someone else how they should’ve been doing that when they close a trade early. I didn’t really see him practice what he preaches if his trades he claims in chat are real. No, he doesn’t make much money trading. He also doesn’t consistently post trades in chat that he made either, so a winner or there can be accomplished by anyone.
Clay isn’t a terrible guy or anything, and you could learn the basics there. However, the is ZERO original about Clay. There is literally nothing I’ve seen from anyone in any of his classes that was original. Clay just regurgitates what you could really find free on the internet if you weren’t too lazy to put in some work. He will shuffle it around some and try to put some new words he makes up for it, but there is noting innovative or original to anything he does. If you have a decent trading background, you can recognize where he just re-named something to make it his.
If you are going to pay someone so much money for a course, you should receive something that had some real thought put into it. Not just something that is just disguised patterns and knowledge that have been around and all over the internet for a long time now. What you get for your $2k is a lot of videos with some silly terminology (I consider it pretty childish sometimes) better organized than if you had to find it for free on the internet yourself.
The alert room is often in Clay terminology. After 2 alerts, I can tell you exactly what patter they are looking for, because there is nothing original there. However, if you don’t have background to quickly recognize their silly speak, no one will help you and they will tell you to go buy expenses classes.
There is no edge over the market to be learned from Clay. There is nothing there that will turn you into a great trader. The only thing his education might speed up is your learning the basics, but you can do that in dozens of places.
There are no proven traders running Clay site. The moderators will talk big in their little clique in the chat room, but maybe one of them has made any consistent profit the past 6-12 months.
Clay isn’t a bad guy by internet standards. However, it is obvious he has found out that he will always make far, far more money selling you something for $2k, that may or may not be useless to you, than he will ever make trading on his own.
Great comment. And dead on accurate.
All things considered, I gave him a pretty good review. No, he doesn’t claim to trade, or trade very well, no track record, but he does know a few things. And he loves to talk about the markets. And his blog posts are sometimes entertaining and sort of useful.
Really i don’t see what all the hype is about his trading account? For people like myself that don’t have a clue about trading, we could care less. What is important is does his teachings work? Everyone in the the trading world seem to always get into who’s the best or who has more money etc. I really wish that you could just get straight advice, and honest knowledge that doesn’t require a bunch of money. I think it’s simple if any of these so called traders were so damn good they wouldn’t need to suck the little people dry. if and when i learn this, and i feel that i’m successful and knowledgeable. I will offer free advice for all, that’s what education should be about. helping your country and sharing opportunity.
Hi Eric,
I appreciate that you took the time to write. In my opinion, a trading educator should have at least some trading experience. Though in my opinion, you might be setting the bar a little too low for yourself. You said, “I dont have a clue about trading”. Please be careful.
Best, hope to see more of your comments in the future. And please let me know how Clay Trader is working out for you.
Emmett
‘they’re waiting for you out there’ lol
Markets
Brokers
Educators
All geared for you to fail and spend more on the cycle!
And when you see how much time and dedication it takes to teach someone a completely new craft, please update us on how your venture of free education to help your country is going
well said
I have taken a couple of Clay’s courses, and been a member for almost a year.
Claytrader, is not a signal service, Clay wants to teach you how and when to trade on your own.
So if claytrader.com is shut down, you’re still able to place quality trades on your own.
And thats what most traders should be looking for, a place to learn how to become and independent successfull trader.
Fair enough! But you should also give some of the other guys I have reviewed a chance as well. I put a lot of work and effort into finding trading products from proven professionals. Its not easy.
ABSOULUTLY NAILED IT. get educated learn too wipe your own bum.well said,
Clay regularly posts not only his winners but his losers as well….in the chat room. The winners far out weigh the losers. Maybe if you had test drove the product; you might had a chance at a fair review.
Clay does not say “what to play” but “what’s in play”. How you play it depends upon your personal strategy and risk-vs-reward tolerance.
Personally, i’ve paid for the courses I’ve taken a couple times over. Starting with a very small account.
How can you review something without even using it? This is like reviewing a car by looking at it through the dealership window. Also, the Inner Circle chat room is $99 a year, not per month. This is all absolutely pointless drivel…
If Emmett was a successful trader, I think he would of dropped the $99 for the annual IC membership. Kinda sad… Let me pay it for you. Reach me at Twitter if interested. @JayMaximusG
Just watched the video. I’m glad clay metaphorically slapped you and handed it to you as deserved. Checkout his free podcast and pay the $99 for Annual membership to even consider this review legitimate.
Call me I have some ocean front land in Arizona I can sell you for cheap. You might be as dumb as clay, even dumber because you paid for his terrible DVD
Oh my… please don’t be so full of fertilizer or you’ll end up burning my lawn. Keep your eye on the ball not on the 8.
your onto it…
I’m not sure why his trading matters. Suffice to say I was a member of IU for 1 month, and have been a member of ClayTrader for well over a year and counting, so read into it what you wish. Oh yeah, it’s 99.00 yearly, not monthly. He isn’t Nate ‘FleeceYourSubs’ Michaud.
If you like to take investment advice from someone that does not even invest…it sounds like you found the right trading guru! Best of luck! LOL.
When I need my car repaired, I go a guy that fixes cars. When I need a hair cut, I go to a barber. When I needed surgery on my elbow, I go to a surgeon. This is really just common sense. But hey, in the world of trading guru’s that do not trade, common sense is something in short supply.
Please stay in touch. Your comments are appreciated.
These aren’t analogous. Here you are going to a teacher to be taught. Does the Business professor own a business, or in management in someone elses? Usually not. The auto mechanic teacher teaches, he doesn’t generally have a side job fixing cars. Believe me I get your actual point and prefer to be taught to trade by a trader, but you are completely confusing the matter by mixing unrelated points.
The opposite argument of a mechanic could be made as it is not all that uncommon when we go to college that we are taught primarily by people who have never worked or set foot in the industry they teach, yet we pay tens of thousands a year for this education from non-doers, but theorists. Having said that, I do like the format that plumbers and electricians go through, not only the classroom, but on the job training as well. I do not primarily think a person has to have experience in a field to understand and teach it, but your point is taken as I would prefer one who knows, understands and has experienced it. Having seen his website and a couple of his non-paid videos, I do believe that he insinuates that he does trade. Good article though. Thanks
I’m sorry I just can’t agree with teachers create professionals and that it’s ok to do the same in trading. If the man teaching you to be successful in something that over 90% fail in then I would want to know for damn sure that he can at least make it work. It is very easy to go over the basics of charting and as he states no emotion trading without the pressure of real money on the line. money that you may lose and will not have enough to pay your bills with. that’s the daily pressure a trader has to perform. He teaches basic stuff you can find in any good John Murphy TA book which I know JM is an expert in. He is teaching people to trade with the notion that he will teach you well enough to do it for a living. I believe marketing his way, yes I’m a regular guy that just show you how trade to make money. I’m not here to brag and mislead which he is doing every single day.
If I’m learning a craft that is one of the hardest feats one can attempt then I want to know what he teaches can be traded successfully by him, the expert. I would like to know how well he does with his brilliant teaching before I fork over a boat load of money for Clay Trader University. I would expect him to show his clients the reasonable returns that he is producing. Why wouldn’t he do that, because he either doesn’t trade live or he can not trade successfully enough to warrant charging thousands for info you can get free on the internet. He is a trading marketer. BTW, I have watched his you tube videos and it blows my mind that he puts out examples of his trades where he will add to a losing position because it is over extended and he has plenty of capital to keep adding. WTF!! Does anyone realize that is the cardinal sin in trading, adding until you get just enough profit to cover the huge loss you created from throwing darts at the board. He has many videos where he adds 5-6 times against the trend where he is down 6 times his eventual small tiny profit for the risk he took. His risk reward is sometimes 1 to 6. I will guarantee anyone that type of trading is the number 1 rule why new traders blow up. Keep averaging , hope and pray it will give you a chance to get out without a monstrous loss. He does this over and over and puts out on you tube for people to see. even if it seems to work for him, that is so reckless to even show that to traders that don’t even know what a trend consists of. He is making money selling dreams which is deceitful. I would ask him to verify his trading to prove that his methods are helping him pay his bills. When you tube posters call him on his horrible habit of averaging down to eke out a tiny profit after being down 2gs, he claims it’s not a realized loss until its covered. LOL!!! Really yes…i have a position from 2008 that is down 90 percent but it’s not realized because I haven’t covered it yet. Does anyone realize the insanity of that statement and he us charging people to teach them to trade. Cmon folks do some thinking for yourself, read a book and learn some basic finance before you go with a furu.
Wow,
What can I say, but I think it is time for the old guy (me) to pass the torch to the new sheriff in town Mike M.
Not that young, but we all know who keeps the deadbeats in check on this blog. It’s the guy that could be a little harsh at times. My views have been altered by someone you know. LOL
Has anyone purchased any of his courses?
I’m looking for education. Really want to learn all about trading but 2g’s is steep!
I actually like Clay. For his trading? Not so much. Thats only because he will not reveal is performance.
Why do I like Clay? Great marketing! I would describe him as the Captain of Pretzel Logic. In other words, he does these videos like, “All Trading Products Are Scams”, then he gets in front of a chalkboard and loops you through this pretzel of Clay special reasoning. Inevitably, the pretzel logic leads you right back to the buy button. The button that leads to the subscribe page for the trading product. Laughable! Ingenious! Great marketing. And he shows up all unshaven and average Joe looking. But in reality the dude is ultra sharp. Good stuff.
Emmett,
Have you ever used Sykes service? POS service. Profit.ly is meaningless. I lost money with Sykes. And he always uses the “I Shoulda, I Coulda…but I was traveling” bullshit.
Didn’t Investor’s Underground part from Profit.Ly’s partnership. Must be a reason behind that. The guys from IU are constantly bashing on Sykes.
Learning to place trades in real time based on accurate calls opens the newbies eyes to a new level of thinking, It cuts down the learning process leaving educational websites in the dust. The most powerful way of learning is when you have fun, not when you bang your head against the wall just to feel good once you stop. Overall, you provide fantastic content and much needed info for those not exposed to trading yet showing how littered with scumbags this industry is.
I have a handful of his courses and I honestly don’t care much for them. If you decide to purchase one of his course and there he goes over something he thinks you might not know, he will only refer you to buy his other courses, otherwise you’re on your own. I felt like his videos were fairly dry and the way he teaches isn’t the way he trades (if he trades at all).
Notice how I gave Clay a 5 for honesty? Hey, like he told me…he makes no claims on his trading performance, he does not claim to even have an account, and furthermore he flatly states that he is an average trader. How could I not give him a 5 for honesty? Hey, if people find value, then they can buy his products.
Although, I will say that his blog does have some useful articles. And he is pretty entertaining to watch fumble around on that chalk board. He likes to act like an “average Joe”, but he is actually a really smart guy. The average Joe routine is marketing fluff. I have no idea if he trades, or how he trades.
Emmet are you sure that he inner circle chat room is 99 usd per month and not per year?I have the impression that the subscription is on a yearly basis and it’s rather a chat room with members exchanging trading ideas than a trading room where “actual trades” take place.
Clay has a youtube channel where he does live trading of mid-large cap stocks, he’s not very good. Couple hundred bucks or barely that. I would say he teaches because he is better a teaching than trading.
Agreed. Not a bad guy. I am hoping that I can prod him into disclosing performance. Until that happens, then supporting his trading room and products just wont work for me. Too many other vendors are now allowing the viewing of account statements. This is the future.
I’ve been watching Clay’s live videos for a while now and have been paper trading with Lightspeed Trader (same platform as Clay uses).
The demo version of Lightspeed Trader does not handle STOP orders. If I set a STOP order in the demo it executes immediately, regardless of the price. Clay uses STOP orders in his videos and they work as expected. I know this does not prove anything, but I wanted to share that with you.
Thank you for the comment. I have been pretty tough on Clay. But if I dont, nobody else will. He needs more transparency on performance.
Keep up the good work Emmett. This is another guy that annoys the fuck out of me. He has NO BUSINESS in teaching people to trade. This guy is a middle class moron leading the other fat, beer-drinking morons into financial ruin. In some sense, youve gotta appreciate this asshole because he keeps bringing in the retail money so they can be skinned. Clay, if you read this, shave. Put on a shirt and lose some fucking weight.
Interesting comments. Maybe if you guys have been really successful in the markets, like you guys come off sounding like; you guys should consider “wasting” $99 louzy bucks on an annual membership to the IC.
Names such as John Doe and ignorant comments like Kaiser Snooze You Lose give this review less credibility.
The best $99 bucks I’ve spent (annual subscription) . In addition, Profit.ly is Tim Sykes’ site and I started trading because of Sykes using his puppet trading service for $100 a month; worst scumbag motherfucker ever.
You guys outta put your money where your mouth is and drop that money; most of your questions would be answered… I did it, and I’m only a regular dude with a tiny $30k account.
Here’s a my Twitter ID and feel free to continue your bitching rants with me there:
@JayMaximusG
Thanks for the comments.
I watch his youtube, he looks/sounds legit.
And yeah $99 per year is a good deal.. but there are a lot of free rooms.. and most of these rooms are full of noobs and is more noise then help IMO!
Anyway.. you just started and you feel you need to defend your purchase, I understand.. but come back in 6-12months and post your glowing comment then.