T3 Trading Group
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Honesty
(5)
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Quality
(5)
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Cost
(5)
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Support
(5)
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Prop Trading Opportunity
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User Experience
(5)
Summary
T3 Trading Group is a legitimate proprietary trading company. They honestly seek to help and enable the retail trader into becoming a fully licensed and registered proprietary trader.
There are a multitude of reasons why a person should become registered. The number one reason is to gain access to leverage and massively reduced trading fees.
Finally, by becoming part of a legitimate proprietary trading company, you will gain access to people that are actually making a living at trading.
T3 Trading Group has included special benefits to TradingSchools.Org readers, which I have described in this review.
Thanks for reading today’s review of T3 Trading Group
T3 Trading Group is a proprietary trading company, and a stock brokerage. T3 Trading is also a member of the NASDAQ. Everything about T3 Trading is regulated and under the auspices of the United States Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) and the Financial Industry Regulatory Authority (Finra).
T3 Trading should be considered the ‘gold standard’ of prop trading legitimacy, regulation, and investor safety. The company also maintains state licenses in all 53 US states and Territories.
They have been around since 2003, and they know what they are doing. This is not a ‘bucket shop’ operation.
The company is based out of One State Street Plaza, 10th Floor, New York, NY. The headquarters is a massive, 12,000 square foot office that houses administration, compliance, IT technology, and a giant trading floor. The trading floor is every bit what you would imagine; banks of desks lined up, with computer monitors stacked in the hundreds.
The company is listed with Finra.Org as follows:
T3 Trading Group is a sprawling operation. In the past 10 years, T3 Trading has essentially bought out or merged with nearly all of their competitors. The result is that T3 Trading Group now has offices located in various locations throughout the United States.
With any large organization, it is easy to get lost within the structure and hierarchy of staff. For the purposes of this review, I want to only focus on the Atlanta, Georgia office of T3 Trading Group. The owner of the Atlanta office is Anthony Guarraci, and he was ultra helpful in putting together the information to write this review.
Before we go any further, I want to take a moment to talk about the differences between T3 Trading Group and T3 Securities. You are probably wondering, “what is the difference?”
T3 Trading Group
T3 Trading Group is a limited liability company. In a nutshell, T3 Trading Group represents all of the proprietary traders located throughout the United States. These would be traders that either work out of one of several different retail trading floors, or work at home. The choice of location is up to the individual. Some folks might like trading in a group setting, some might like working from home on a PC.
What exactly is a proprietary trader at T3 Trading Group? Quite simply, a proprietary trader is someone that makes a deposit of funds into a pooled trading account. They are allowed to trade those funds, just like any normal stock brokerage. It really is, as simple as that.
The advantage of trading as a prop trader through T3 Trading Group is additional leverage and reduced trading costs. Let’s take a look at the ‘newbie’ cost structure.
- Minimum Deposit $2,500
- Buying power up to 50:1 for day trades
- Buying power up to 6:1 for overnight trades
- 50 cents per hundred shares traded
- 95/5 profit split
- $100 monthly software cost
Another advantage of being a prop trader at T3 Trading Group is the ability to capture rebates. For instance, suppose you are day trading Apple stock, and executing limit orders. The electronic trading venue known as Edge X is currently paying .24 per 100 shares.
So if you purchase Apple on a limit order at $150 per share. And then quickly sell Apple on a limit order at $150, then Edge X would pay you .24 cents in rebate. So your total trade costs would only be .26 per 100 shares.
With this rebate in mind, now you can understand how large algorithmic trading companies like Virtu Financial (almost) never lose money. Their business model is to capture rebates. They are not in the business of predicting where a market will go, they just want to quickly buy and sell for the rebate.
Can the retail trader replicate something like Virtu Financial? A few years ago. Yes. However, the market has now become crowded and the days of “building a bull dozer to pick up pennies” is over. The best you can hope would be to develop strategies that have a short term edge, preferably systematic, and then work the edge. The following is an example of a workable short term strategy that I personally use. Anyway, let’s get back to T3 Trading Group and T3 Securities.
What is T3 Securities?
In a nutshell, T3 Securities is a stock broker. They are no different than TD Ameritrade, Charles Schwab, or any of the other retail stock brokers. However, the primary function of T3 Securities is to serve the interests of traders contained within T3 Trading Group. The prop traders must push all of their trading volumes through the T3 Securities channel.
Just like any stock brokerage, T3 Securities earns a commission from the trading volume of the traders. So, if you are a prop trader, and your commission rate is .50 cents per 100 shares, then this commission is earned by, and paid to T3 Securities. The stock brokerage is part of their business model.
How successful are the prop traders at T3 Trading Group?
According to Anthony Guarraci, who has been a full-time prop trader for the past 18 years, the failure rate is about 92%. What exactly does that mean? Essentially, about 90% of the people that attempt this journey is going to fail. That is a hard and simple truth. But it’s the truth. You might not like what you are reading, but TradingSchools.Org has never served up bullshit, and we are not going to start anytime soon.
But what about the 10% that actually make it? This is where things get interesting. The 10% that survive, usually make a mountain of money. According to Anthony, a yearly income of $300k to $500k is not uncommon. I have to be careful not to fill your imagination with pie in the sky fantasies. But the truth is that prop trading is like any other industry…only a sliver is going to make a mountain of money.
In my opinion, one of the more inspiring stories of a T3 prop trader is the story of a middle aged guy that spent his entire career being kicked around different blue collar jobs, eventually, his body gave out and he ended up driving a taxi cab.
Much closer to the end of his life, than the beginning, he decided on a radical career change. He decided he wanted to be one of those fancy guys he was always driving around in his cab. Somehow he stumbled into T3 Trading Group. With $2,500 to his name and absolutely no financial sophistication, he willed himself to learn.
It took a while, but he eventually turned his $2,500 into $14,000,000. Yes, you are reading that correctly. For him, the turning point was disassociating himself from his former friends and colleagues. He had to radically change whom he surrounded himself with. The synergy of working with people that actually earn a living at the game of trading made all the difference.
This is the mistake that most people make, they attach their hopes and dreams to a butthole they randomly found on the internet. Expecting to learn from a person with no track record, or no history of ever trading successfully. The end result is predictable.
T3 Trading: you need that pesky license
In order to open an account, and begin your proprietary trading journey with T3 Trading Group…you need a Series 57 Securities Trader license.
Don’t let this scare you. Although it might sound terrifying, it is not. In fact, it’s about as difficult to pass as a real estate license. In fact, the real estate license and the Series 57 license are administered in the same testing facilities.
Will you learn anything ‘ground breaking’ with your Series 57 license? Will you learn how to be a trader with your Series 57 license? Not a chance. It’s just the basics. The SEC understands that unleashing massive leverage into the hands of a newbie day trader can wreak all manner of havoc on financial markets.
If you are going to buy a tank, equipped with rocket launchers and machine guns, then it might be best to take a few lessons on driving a tank, aiming your rocket launchers, and reloading your machine gun.
A lot of folks say, “Ah fuck it, I don’t need any tank lessons. Just hit the gas pedal and pull the trigger.” The equivalent of this would be folks that look for a short cut. And they unwittingly get themselves into ridiculous ‘prop funding’ schemes like Bubba Gump Trading. Which acts like a prop trading company, but is nothing of the sort.
Getting your Series 57
The Series 57 is a lonely license. Since there is basically only one remaining prop trading company in the United States, the Series 57 is basically an entry application to T3 Prop Trading.
According to Anthony, most people complete the examination and test in about 21 days. But some have completed in as little as 10 days.
It just depends on how fast you want to consume the test materials.
Special offer for TradingSchools.Org readers
In the past couple of years, Anthony Guarraci and I have had quite a few telephone conversations. Mostly he calls to either laugh or cry about yet another ‘trading guru’ that we exposed as a fraud. Or a supposed ‘prop trading’ firm that is nothing more than an educational scheme.
Most surprising to Anthony is that most aspiring traders, that want to become professional traders have never heard of T3 Trading Group. They get caught up in all manner of internet ridiculousness, bouncing from funding scheme to funding scheme. But never finding the path of least resistance.
Hopefully, this article will serve as a launchpad. In speaking with Anthony, we came up with a plan to encourage the newbie (both old and young) towards a better path. Specifically, Anthony agreed to offer TradingSchools.Org readers a few added benefits:
- To all TradingSchools.Org readers that contact Anthony directly, he has agreed to provide all of the educational materials to pass the Series 57, for free. This is not a ‘token gift’. In fact, the Series 57 Course costs $475 through a 3rd party.
- Free membership to the T3Live.com trading room where some of the best traders at T3 trade with their live accounts. This is not a hokey trading room with simulated fraudsters. These are real traders plying their trade. Normally costs $200 per month, but free for TradingSchools.Org readers.
- And finally, some good old fashioned hand holding from Anthony Guarraci. He wants you to succeed, and he genuinely wants to help TradingSchools.Org readers.
What in the hell is hand holding? According to Anthony, the best prop traders at T3 Trading Group will average about 50% winning trades, with an average profit factor of 1.8. Anthony wants to help you achieve this performance goal. You might need some hand holding or a good ass kicking. Anthony will deliver either.
How to contact Anthony Guarraci? Anthony loves phone calls. In fact, he requested that I include his direct phone number. This way, he can quickly answer your questions without the burdensome back-n-forth of email exchanges. The only stupid question is the question that you are too afraid to ask.
He can be reached directly at 770-312-5990.
And he can be reached via email at anthony.guarraci@t3trading.com
Wrapping Things Up
Thanks for reading. This was a long post. But it’s been a post that I have wanted to write for a long time. Too often, I read emails from people that get suckered by ‘bucket shops’.
In fact, I exposed a bucket shop and the FBI arrested the clown. He is currently in jail awaiting sentencing.
Or educational providers that sell an educational package for $10,000 and then use a form of ‘three-card Monte’ to give you back $5k to trade with leverage. Complete scam.
Or these ridiculously stupid funding schemes from yet another fake prop trading company named TopStepTrader. Where you pay hundreds of dollars each month to trade on a simulator, and if you are lucky enough for Moses to split the Red Sea, then you might get a token funded account.
Enough rambling for today. Thanks for reading. Would love to read your comments below.
makes me wonder credibility of this website’s method to do review.
call 2 related company a 1.8star and 5 star.
lol
Are you concerned the owner of T3, Scott Redler, worked for 2 brokers banned by Finra?
Hello! Can you tell me if the offers from Anthony above are still applicable? Last time I spoke to him about six months after this review, it sounded like he wanted to change the trading room option above.
Please let me know!
Thanks,
Jeff
Duplicate post. Please delete.
This sounds like one of the more direct and legitimate ways to learn to trade for a living. I see they actually have an office near me in South Florida. Since this review is a couple years old, I’m curious if there are any more success stories that came out of this review on tradingschools.org.
I’m glad I read this… I’ve been chatting by email with Maverick in Salt Lake, so great, they have learning material, it sounds like T3 is the better choice.. and by the way, I’m the 50 something guy who’s been kicked around by the railroad after 11 years in real estate (thanks to 2008) .. I’ll gladly leave behind the “sphere of influence” I’m currently in for the right group, I will be the guy to will myself into succeeding, huge
Thanks,
Terry E. Roseville Ca.
This is the most informative review I’ve read in years. The depth of your probe is incredible and noteworthy. Thank you for taking the time to help me make an educated decision. I am truly impressed. I wish you as much success as I expect to achieve by choosing my future endeavor as a direct response to your work.
Gratefully and with much respect,
Rodin Calderon
Future Stock Trader
Bright Trading is a legitimate prop firm and been around a lot longer than T3, you may want to do a review on them. The owner turned the company over to Rob Friesen out of Vancouver but I believe they are still in full operation albeit smaller than the hey days with traders all over the US. They used to require series 7 63 but that has changed
I’m thinking about signing up with T3 and have sp0ken with Anthony and a few others. Just wondering if you have learned anything new since July 2017 when this was written. Any new information or suggestions would be much appreciated.
Thanks much for your efforts, alr
I love your sense of humor and writing style. You crack me up. And you make me read every word. Usually I skip half of any reading I do. Really amazing what you do for the industry. I am so happy you decided to take your time to create this, so THANK YOU!!!!
This site has saved me from almost signing up with Warrior trading. So I must thank Emmett for that. Great work. And the ever vigilant commentators too. I learn a lot from you guys. But in this instance, in the face of mounting evidence, Emmett needs to revise. For the sake of future newbies like myself and for the integrity of this site.
you do understand warrior trading is not a Prop firm right? i’m not sure you are clear on what is what
I was a trader at T3 Trading. I had some retail trading experience before joining. I paid $2500 for the training and what I got was an access to a online course and a total 90 mins class from my team manager, Derrick Oldensmith. What he taught you was very basic technical analysis you can find in any trading book. Then he taught us a trading strategy called Break Out trade — whenever a stock is close to break an integer level or a significant level, enter at BreakOut and put risk at BO bar low. If you are a trader, you would know that BO trades do not work most of the time. Everyone is constantly losing money. People usually leave after 3 to 4 months because they are wiped out. That is why all team managers are interviewing new traders everyday. They are making money on the commission. My team manager usually trades at the opening for about 30 mins, and then he just leaves his desk and usually does not trade for the rest of the day. Ask anyone, that is not a real trader. He punches his desk and monitor when he trades go wrong which happens a lot. He claims he is a world kickboxing champion and forces everyone on the team to purchase ticket to see his fights, which are really amateur(he is making money out of that). He does not stay on his desk because he knows he can not make money through trading. Another very bad thing, he forces you to trade because that is how he makes money. If he did one trade and after 5 mins, he still was not stopped out, he would interrogate new traders “did you get in?” ” why not?” When the trade fails shortly, you would not hear any shit like that. I have talked to some older members on the team, older means they came here before I did. They all agree the Break Out trade does not work. They all try to study more on their own and make a living in trading. It is said that some senior traders in the company can make money, might be true, I do not know. But for new traders who try to learn some real trading skills. Please do not go to T3 Trading. You are just getting ripped off. THEY ARE CONSTANTLY INTERVIEWING NEW TRADERS BECAUSE MOST TRADERS GO BROKE WITHIN A FEW MONTHS! If you already have the skills to trade and make money, you can increase your profits with a leverage of 20, not 50, at least not for me. But careful with the leverage, it is a faster way to destruction. Profit sharing is 80 to 20, a little more than 80 but i do not remember the exact member.
T3 is great for leverage. As far as the educational component…not so much.
While I truly respect what Emmett is trying to do overall on the tradingschools.org website, I’ve been reading his reviews long enough to watch him flip-flop a few times on several organizations. TST is one example of him coming out in complete support of a business, only to turn around and sand-blast it later as if it was the largest scam on Earth. Unfortunately, my respect has somewhat wavered for him because of this – it’s okay to change your opinion based on future evidence, but I agree with some of the well written replies which state clearly all of the items Emmett apparently ‘forgot’ to investigate before writing this….it makes it difficult to believe his article and I’m more apt to believe many of the posts in the comment section instead of Emmett’s review. Sadly, I see his site now as a mixed bag of nuts, some helpful while others simply lack the investigative prowess to convince me that a certain business is indeed legitimate.
However, this site is free and I’ve never paid a dime, so perhaps I should stop complaining as well and take it for what it is.
Thanks for the honest assessment JJ.
With TST, I made a mistake. Truly. The affiliate income blinded my better judgment.
Sadly, I have to form some sort of affiliate relationships and hope like hell that it doesn’t come back and burn me later.
The little bit of income keeps the lights on. But I hear you loud and clear on some of my inconsistencies.
Emmett, is doing this on a bubble gum budget and he has exposed more frauds than any site or publication that one can name. So if he gets it wrong at first, but has the decency to correct the mistakes I think that is all we can ask for. Would you rather have these sites continue to lie about 800% ROI with 90% accuracy? This site is responsible for finally exposing the truth about these sites that can’t trade which now stands at 99%. Do you understand that 99 percent of these educators, trading rooms and signal services are outright frauds. 99% again 99%, oh sorry he got something wrong once in a while. I guess you are use to perfection. You know he must’ve saved a lot of good people their life savings many times over, but you are hung up on the 1 or 2 he got wrong. Well I wish everyone could be as perfect as you. Like you said maybe you can look past some mistakes considering he is basically doing this on his own time.
JJ Peters
As one of the posters that post some, “items Emmett apparently ‘forgot’ to investigate before writing,” I will give my 2 cents worth.
Using Emmett’s own analogy, he is the best in the worst neighborhood. Actually that is a bit harsh, but it flowed well as it was stated in this same thread. At this point in time this is the only day trading blog I post at and their is a reason for that. If I posted a post disagreeing with the author and pointing out the author did not properly investigate lets say on BTM; I would be BANNED for life! BMT is like Venezuela, lock up all the opponent parties and make sure there is only one voice. That is one big difference.
I could write a paper but lets look at just one more example Lyin Dean Handly. Here is a guy that write for a magazine and states he spends hundreds of hours in each TR in order to properly evaluate them. But it is all one big lie. In fact one of his “Approved” trading rooms, Open Range TR, was charged with making up a complete fake results. Dean never ask any of his TRs to actually show any proof they can trade profitable. And this is the only thing that matter, can the vendor actual trade profitable.
Lastly, I think you miss IMHO the real BIG PICTURE and that is not any single article, but the fact that Emmett is telling newbies for goodness sake don’t take these con artist word on it or believe their fake excel post hypothetical trade results. You must actually ask them for proof of their wild claims. As the old saying goes, “This is worth the price of admission”. As far as I am concerned if Emmett has saved 1 person from losing thousands if not 10s of thousands to one of these con artist, he is the Mother Teresa of this industry. And as far as I am concerned when it come to day trading vendors it is not 99% corrupt, but 100%.
Also another thing, T3 has tons of hidden fees, that will make you go Broke in short time. Here is just one of the things. If you have an outside account with any other brokerage firm, you are forced to disclose all those accounts…WHY ?? what does that have to do with trading with t3. but they force you to declare
And here is another thing, they charge a monthly fee for having outside accounts WTF…then they have tons of other fees. I saw a video on youtube which goes over all T3 hidden fees, I will try and find the link to post here soon
I am looking forward to the link of the vedio. I am very interested.
There was also a leak that showed that in 2015/2016 the trading profits for all of t3 traders combined was $50,000 or so. So that tells us they make ALL their money off commissions and products and not as profitable traders. You can google and you will find the reports online….they are losing traders with NO proof of trading profitability
Good find Eugene. I also happened across some amazon review about SMB capital which has been absorbed into T3. The guy seemingly having worked at SMB/T3 claims the revenue actually came from fees and not trading profits according to the “Edgar” search reports. His “review” here:
http://www.amazon.com/review/R1LZH8W7XHOUA3
the sec.gov edgar search documents here:
http://www.sec.gov/cgi-bin/browse-edgar?company=t3+trading+group&owner=exclude&action=getcompany
Is this a case of the Nicest house in the shittiest of shitty neighborhoods ?
Prop trading may be a solution in the short-term to build up that cushion.
Seriously, you only need 25-50K for a trading account , and you can day trade stocks.
Considering its 50-500K to start an average Franchise, thats not very much to start a business.
Lastly, having access to Pros for mentoring … If Im busy trading , making a living, I’m not going to take time out of my day to teach someone I know wont be there in 3 months .
Anyway, I feel like this one is too easy to blow shotgun shells at and rip it apart.
Just my 2 cents …
“The nicest house in the shittiest neighborhood.” Wow, you summed it up perfectly.
From my perspective, I have written about many of these ‘prop trading’ schemes, and they are a horrible deal.
However, with T3 Trading Group, when you compare what they are offering vs the competition…there is no comparison.
Hi Emmett, I have always liked your reviews for exposing fake trading room operators. So I am very curious to know what made you give t3 trading 5-star ratings? I am wondering if you overlooked the facts and if somehow someway they were able to trick you. Also this review contradicts your earlier review as t3 has some of the same team members as Pristine trading. in your earlier review you termed the team behind Pristine trading as con artists. https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/pristine-trading/
There is same team behind t3 as Pristine.
*******
Pristine trading :
Founder/owner: Greg Capra
Counselor: Amber Capra
Senior trader(trading room): Sami Abusaad
*******
T3 trading (after Pristine merged with T3):
T3 President : Greg Capra
T3 Counselor: Amber Capra
T3 Senior trader:Sami Abusaad
*******
Also have same questions as already asked by Rob.
WTF. Is this accurate? I did not realize there was a Pristine connection and now reviewing that Pristine review where Emmett stated this of Greg Carpa Partner Oliver Velez and we are not suppose to believe this guy is legit. This story gets worst by the second. If this is true, I think I will forget about that free trail:
” The site was founded way back in 1996 by Greg Capra and Oliver Velez, both are long time educators and salesman of various trading products. I wont go into too much detail regarding both of these men, however I can tell you that Oliver Velez is definitely someone to avoid at all costs. He has a long history of running various fraudulent trading activities, including a prop day trading firm named Element Trading. What was Element Trading? Element Trading pooled small traders together into an omnibus trading account which allowed small traders to avoid the $25k day trading rule. It worked for a short period of time, until Oliver Velez closed up shop and disappeared with the trading deposits of everyone that had contributed funds into the omnibus account.”
Some info on Capra at “mastertrader” :
http://www.mastertrader.com/about-greg-capra-the-pristine-method-pristine-trading/
So is Capra basically the head boss? including over the Atlanta branch and Anthony Guaracci? It seem you liked the Atlanta office at least Emmett. Maybe there could be a more detailed follow up review over the whole organization. Yes the so called futures prop firm reviews of Maverick and Topstep and the mysterious MES Capital Group, were covered and look forward to more.
Tradingschools had an old prop firms listing and article:
http://www.tradingschools.org/proprietary-trading-firms-2015/
So I guess I”m kind of shocked if T3 has monopolized the entire U.S. prop firm industry.
Capra is only in charge of the traders that he introduced and merged into T3.
You say, “Element Trading pooled small traders together into an omnibus trading account which allowed small traders to avoid the $25k day trading rule.”
Sounds like exactly what Emmett describes as what T3 does, no? “What exactly is a proprietary trader at T3 Trading Group? Quite simply, a proprietary trader is someone that makes a deposit of funds into a pooled trading account. They are allowed to trade those funds, just like any normal stock brokerage. It really is, as simple as that.”
T3 Trading Group consolidated a bunch of smaller competitors. Pristine was one of those companies. Varied reputations for sure.
In my opinion, for US based prop traders…T3 is the gold standard. They are the largest, safest, and offer a multitude of benefits.
“In my opinion, for US based prop traders…T3 is the gold standard.”
Based on what facts?????? Rereading your article everything seems to be solely based on the word of Anthony. Such as:
“The 10% that survive, usually make a mountain of money. According to Anthony, a yearly income of $300k to $500k is not uncommon. “
So says Anthony. Is Anthony’s word now the gold standard?? When I do research on this company all I see are warning signs and then Amitc shows them connected to Pristine, whereby one of its partners was an and out and out fraud who started a prop firm and stole the investor’s money. And it is not like T3 combined with pristine and threw out all the con artist. Those con artist you previous gave a bad review to now hold all the key positions in T3. Are we supposed to believe they saw the light and are angels now?
I seriously must be missing something. I do not see where you did any actual investigation. You did not: 1) Look at this companies financials to see if they are actually making money 2) Interview both successful and failed traders to get their side of the story, such as the exurbanite fees T3 charges as Mike pointed out, or 3) Verify the performance of any of their traders. As far as you know (based on the facts presented in this article) it just as likely no trader makes any money and all of T3 earning comes from their fees.
So again I come back to my same question; T3 is the gold standard based on what; heresay? Seriously no demand for any proof what so ever of his claims. Time to come clean is this guy you brother-in-law or what?
Maybe I oversold it?
It is “the best house, in the worst neighborhood.”
“It is “the best house, in the worst neighborhood.”
That I might agree with, but this is a slum and crime infested neighborhood that the police would call a no go zone.
Which house in this neighborhood is it?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTKEx0N0DCY
I hope some real not shill T3 investors come forth and post their experience.
Another sign of the sad state of retail trading overall if the prof firm industry in the U.S. has devolved into choosing the best out of the “shi**iest neighborhood”. (hmm, I’d heard of Armenians moving into the dilapidated leftover real estate of Detroit and forming new communities, so maybe there is hope yet) Still thanks to Emmett for going over this and I would tend to trust his assessment that T3 is currently the best of the rest. Despite the unsavory fee apparent or not. No wonder so many are still lured by the likes of Ross/WT and his $2 to $3k year long seasonally discounted “pro” hotdog combo packeges. Some figure of 3 trillion in the retail markets seems to confirm the desperate middle class has resorted to becoming semi-legalized gamblers in the privacy of their homes in our weird low-wage economic day and age.
Oh that was a rich video. Just wow.
Emmett stated that there are some fees. I heard some old employees claim there are fees on top of fees for a fee. If you can catch my drift. There may be many more fees than what was written in this short article. Any trader just starting out should have a goal of keeping fees at a minimum. They will add up when you are new and struggling. Now if they are exorbitant then I would run far away from this place. You really need to delve into the fine print because places like this can hit you with fees that one wouldn’t dream possible. This is the negative I am hearing about this place. Some claim they make their money from fees and have no vested interest in your success. Do some searches and you will read that for yourself. I believe if you have decent capital and you need hand holding it could be worth your time. However, for the person with a 2500 deposit, you would have a better chance at power ball. A nod to Rob on that last statement.
“there are fees on top of fees for a fee”
Now that is a classic. My guess is anyone joining this prop trading firm with a whole $2500 account and then using 50 to 1 leverage and paying fees on top of fees for a fee has virtually zero percent chance of success. I think the CEO’s self-proclaimed 8% are successful traders making $300K is a complete BS fabrication.
Of course you can prove me wrong and I hope you do, by opening your books and showing proof of these claims.
Seriously you have these amazing trades taking time from their profitably trading time to supposedly teaching others, so they surely have the time to show their brokerage statement providing some actual proof of these claims. This should be an easy no brainer, Right??
Never seen a prop firm get 5 out 5 stars review… it all looks warm and fuzzy but a little warning for the bold traders who will rush out into this amazing deal. Depending on your experience you probably will not get 50 to 1 right away more like 10 to 1 or 20 to 1 All deposit dependent. 90% traders fail is more likely contributed to the” in my experience with prop firms” is the insane tight daily max loss which will grind away slowly and daily until the newbie trader joins the ranks of 90% failed attempt besides the fact of new traders not understanding how it all works. I don’t want to discourage any high speed go getters but IMO if you want to be a prop trader and are willing to part with 2.5 -10k and can recover from said departure then blue sky for you, but been around way to long to understand the “in the middle area that is never discussed” of mechanics of what will make or break you in the business and it is a business never forget that part. Maybe the exercise to gain the knowledge and break in the business could be worth the effort after all 5 star rating here again I have never seen it and to add a little more with learning the how’s and how the day trading business in this adventure once you do please go get properly funded and do it on your own accord. Good luck and tight lines!
In 92% failure rates, leverage has a big role to play IMHO. Higher the leverage higher the chances of account blowing up in couple of hours while trader has frozen stiff not willing to take a loss and playing a waiting game for another 5 min. tick. Better would be well coded system run on automatic while trader is researching/finetuning other strategies or even reading a book or watching a webinar for enhanced trading skills. All this without heavy leverage i.e. going 2:1 at most IMHO.
Well Stated Amit, At least in Vegas they take you out of the trade once your initial bet is lost. So many newbie traders are brave instead of fearful when walking near the pools of “quicksand” in the real world of getting in a trade? If 90% are failing and you are the house – might be a very safe bet simply to take the other side of your 1000 new student traders???
This sounds pretty cool, I see the ever vigilant Bulldog Rob ready to pounce on anything that sounds too good to be true.Should I call Antony directly to take advantage of the free membership?
Gee my post was very pleasant I thought. At least you do realize, “that sounds too good to be true”. But I am ready to pounce on that live trading room to check it out. I love investing and not just in equities. It is want I do for fun. Instead of playing monopoly I rather be doing the real thing. The day I get a place on Park Place is the day I know I made it. LOL!
Rob, you must report back on your experience. If there is added value by being associated with them and the fees aren’t too high then it could be feasible. What Emmett wrote was so true. Being associated with traders that make money and are willing to share can make huge improvements in your approach.
James, Rob is just stating the facts. 2500 to start a trading career is like trying to buy a house with a debit card. I don’t care how much leverage one provides. Now on the other hand, if one comes up with a decent deposit let’s say at the very least 10k and only risks 1-2% of capital on each trade then maybe this place sounds viable. Just remember you must have draw down capital because no on is perfect. Leverage can really bite on the wrong side. Remember 92% fail which means a lot of smart people don’t make it. That doesn’t mean everyone will fail. It should mean give yourself the best advantage to start. One of the main reasons a new trader fails is because of being underfunded. Leverage doesn’t count towards funding. It is just an easier and faster way to blow up. Writers here are just stating the facts. Good luck.
Mike,
I was not familiar with T3 so I started to search and the more I look the more suspicious I am. Just suspicious that is all, no condemnation. But if you go to:
http://www.sec.gov/edgar/searchedgar/companysearch.html
and search for T3 Trading and then look at their focus report where revenues and expenses and net income / loss is reported, I am not very impressed. Maybe I am missing something. One year I show a loss of $137,902 and then another year I see a gain of $4,243,855, but from what I have read they have over 300 traders so per trader that is not very much money.
And yes when someone says pay $2,500 and use 50 to 1 leverage that sends shivers down my spine. And frankly I do not think Emmett dove very deeply here. That VIG might be effecting this digging. Where did he look at the financials? Where did he interview and talk to the various T3 traders and get their input like he did with TST? Where did he verify the claims of successful traders making $300K and better yet provide stats on them?
Again I plan on checking out the free room, but I do not think a bit of caution is warranted here.
I wish there was a VIG on this review. Truly.
For US based traders that need leverage, and reduced fee’s, this is the best game in town.
From all the arcade prop shops around T3 seems the most reputable. If you don’t have the 25k to avoid the pdt rule then this place seems attractive. If you can truly spend time talking through ideas with the pros then you can’t put a price tag on that. That is the most valuable aspect of this deal.
I read somewhere that they will force you to pay for education before you can trade, but I don’t believe Emmett would’ve left that out. 2500 is very little risk capital, but if people are interested in the leverage I would advise to keep saving before you risk that little savings. Just my 2 cents which is not even worth 2 cents.
Hmmmm,
The more research I do the more concerned I get. I am sure it is not like Tuco Trading, but there are a lot of similarities. Make sure you read the SEC complaint in detail.
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2008/lr20480.htm
But then I find this:
Creating LinkedIn profile reflecting a competitor. The whole thing is very odd for a legit company don’t you think?
http://www.cboe.com/framed/pdfframed?content=/publish/DisDecision/12-0007.pdf§ion=SEC_ABOUT_CBOE&title=CBOE%20-%20CBOE
And I have done the minimum research. I fear what I might find if I were to continue digging.
Emmett, maybe you should talk to both the failed and successful traders of this prop firm.
Hmmmm, The more research I do the more concerned I get. I am sure it is not like Tuco Trading, but there are a lot of similarities. Make sure you read the SEC complaint in detail.
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2008/lr20480.htm But then I find this: Creating LinkedIn profile reflecting a competitor. The whole thing is very odd for a legit company don’t you think?
http://www.cboe.com/framed/pdfframed?content=/publish/DisDecision/12-0007.pdf§ion=SEC_ABOUT_CBOE&title=CBOE%20-%20CBOE
And I have done the minimum research.
I fear what I might find if I were to continue digging. Emmett, maybe you should talk to both the failed and successful traders of this prop firm.
Gee this site will not allow me to post 2 links so I have to break my post into 2 parts:
Hmmmm, The more research I do the more concerned I get. I am sure it is not like Tuco Trading, but there are a lot of similarities. Make sure you read the SEC complaint in detail.
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/litreleases/2008/lr20480.htm
Part II of my post.
But then I find this:
Creating LinkedIn profile reflecting a competitor. The whole thing is very odd for a legit company don’t you think?
http://www.cboe.com/framed/pdfframed?content=/publish/DisDecision/12-0007.pdf§ion=SEC_ABOUT_CBOE&title=CBOE%20-%20CBOE
And I have done the minimum research. I fear what I might find if I were to continue digging. Emmett, maybe you should talk to both the failed and successful traders of this prop firm.
That is a nice find Rob. Trying to get into a competitor’s platform by faking a Linked In profile seems really out there…
See the evidence here RobB? Pete as “drchump” now, barely tiptoeing here. like when “toto” barely appeared first in the first days of the Brooks review, LOL.
I spoke to some people familiar with the firm. Be very careful, I hear the fees will bleed your account especially if it is small and you are just learning. I can not confirm, just a warning to people interested. I would ask a lot of questions and get everything in writing.
Hm. Sounds like deliberate identity fraud in order to access computer systems. It must be nice to have enough money to not face prosecution for it.
Emmett is there a futures prop firm out there ?
I assume you are looking for a legit prop firm, not TST. Why do you need a prop firm for Futures? You do not have the 25K requirement and you already get massive leverage with futures.
Yes, am interviewing several now.
So this one is stock only?
Emmett is there a FOREX prop firm out there?
On my first readover, it was indeed a funny review. I enjoyed the recap of Topstep and Maverick and how Tradingschools firmly stated its revised assessment of those so-called hamster-wheeled “prop” firms. The story about the phone calls “laugh or cry” about the next exposed “trading guru” sham also had me laughing because it’s just so insanely absurd when realizing the extent of snakeoil trade-ucation pervasive “industry” stink where review after review exposes the shenanigans of yet another clown. One can’t help but be floored in disgust, or be compelled to laugh at the incredible unreal absurdity of it all , after being kool-aided for so long by the shilled trading media. Appreciated the reality of the 92% vs. 8% figures of failed vs. success, as trading is extremely hard and competitive.
That said, I’m kind of confused and wondering with some questions. So prop trading has essentially been monopolized by T3? Granted I have no experience with prop trading, but from what I’ve read and heard, there were other legit prop firms and I hope tradingschools also covers them for completeness. Such as “SMB Capital”? ( http://www.smbcap.com )
Then the review didn’t mention their regular pricing structure, but I guess tradingschool readers have a special offer if they contact Anthony directly(?)
Per Rob’s post, I cant’ help but be kind of wary. The trial for the trading room is 2 weeks at a value of ($195), so that approximates to $400/a month with the annual subscription listed $1995.
Also was “T3 Capital Management” an earlier incarnation of T3 Trading Group?
Hate to bring up investiscamma, but there were a bunch of reviews with some talk about expensive “training packages”. (I guess Sykes didn’t get vig for that review page).
http://www.investimonials.com/prop-firms/reviews-t3-capital-management.aspx
Tradingschools has been far and above the best resource for truthful reviews and also often is responsive to change and update reviews with new or mistaken information comes to light. No other review site comes close in overall consideration imo, as they are usually swamped by significant shilling, fakemonials postings, and infested with vendors or outside affiliations. And I think a fair majority of the readership will always be grateful for this underdog voice of sanity among decades long shilled media in favor of the scams. I just hope a “vig” deal wasn’t done in haste due to some behind the scenes pressures..
Anyways, interesting review and thanks for the prop trading information in the article. As usual, RobB helps keeps us sober and questioning..
Ah ok. I see that the old article on tradingschools about prop firms mentioned SMB capital “Or SMB trading, which suckers in college age kids from campuses”.
as part of the “fourth” type of so called prop firms to avoid.
And it seems SMB has now merged with T3, yet still has their own websites.
http://www.amazon.com/review/R1LZH8W7XHOUA3
Thanks to your advice MikeM, there are some glassdoor testimonials on T3 up to recently:
http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/T3-Trading-Group-Reviews-E489104.htm
some negative reviews, but also positive ones.
Ok, I have to post and be a bit of a devil advocate. Yes I know, I am negative and so forth. First from what I have read most (not T3 in particular) prop firms make their money from fees and not profitable traders. And yes I am very suspicious that some profitable trader has turned philanthropist and is going to show and teach someone else to trade. In fact the word suspicious does not even begin express my thoughts on the subject. And I question if you even verified that 8% are profitable or took Anthony’s word on it and got a nice juicy VIG.
That was my devil advocate part.
But sadly I am as big a sucker as anyone and if there is a free trading room with profitable traders I am the first one that wants to check it out and see if I get any new ideas. But if this is just the free 14 Day Trial they offer, as link below shows, I will be pissed.
http://www.t3live.com/virtual-trading-floor/virtual-trading-floor/
Also if I contact Anthony and he say, “Oh you need the t3 trading manual – its 7000$” I will be back with a fury.
Anthony be prepared to be getting a 1M emails and calls.
I guess the actual experience depends on which group you are actually introduced into. The education was basic but free. There was no extra charge for that. They did give free STC material to study for the Series exam. As of the fee structure, I would say they are at the more expensive end of the spectrum. The transaction fee was a little bit more than 1 cent per share depends on whether you take or provide liquidity. And that’s already more expensive than some of the best retail brokers out there such as 0.35 cent per share at interactive brokers. I can tell that the senior traders there probably mainly make money on swing trading, while new traders must start from day trading, and can swing a position only after he makes money on it day trading/has enough profit cushion (the senior trader follows the same rule, but they probably got their positions months ago). As you know swing trading could be much easier than day trading right now because we are in a bull market with historically low volatility, and the other thing is that senior traders tend not to discourage overtrading of new traders. Combined together, they make it pretty hard for a new trader to survive. To succeed, a new trader really needs to know what he/she’s doing, in terms of risk management and edge.
As for the leverage, it is easy to have more than 100x (the leverage is not pegged with account balance as far as I know, so if you have a big drawdown of account balance… ). So you need to be really disciplined and know what you are doing to not be reckless and blow up your own account in a single trade. On the other hand, it’s pretty easier to scale up once you know what you are doing.
The systematic risk management is implemented by a fixed lockout amount. I would say it would be better if it is pegged to your account balance. So to get the better risk management for yourself, again you need the discipline.
Different groups may have different situations. I guess Class B members have a certain degree of flexibility in determining terms and conditions that apply to people introduced into their groups.
Hi Emmett,
Thanks for the research and information on T3. If I remember it correctly I read the review on Jason from OTG he sends some of his students to Top Step Trader with some good results?
Thanks
Riz