Thanks for reading today’s update of Avenge Trading Software
On July 18, 2015 I published a blistering review of Avenge Trading Software. The crux of the negative review was based upon the extreme lack of disclosure regarding the company. In particular, the live day trading room was publishing a fantastic track record based upon the supposed verifiable trading performance of the moderators, inside of the live trading room. These fantastic performance summaries were being used as marketing bait to entice newbie traders into purchasing their magic trading indicators. How much do these magic trading indicators cost? $25,000 for a lifetime license of the software, and an additional $2,500 per month to attend the live day trading room.
To some, it might sound incredible that any person would spend $25,000 and $2,500 each month for magic trading indicators. However, Avenge purports that if a person simply purchases the trading software, and copies the live moderators inside of the day trading room, then they can also, reasonably expect that they will also be able to replicate the performance from within the live trading room. Just how good is the supposed performance inside of the live day trading room? Avenge claims that by simply “copy and paste” the moderators, then a person should be able to replicate at between $150,000 and $200,000 per year in trading profits trading only three contracts. The company claims these performance figures have been “fully audited”, though I am not really sure how they define fully audited. I define an audit as a registered CPA putting some sort of stamp of approval on top of actual account statements. However, Avenge simply provides only a spreadsheet that is emailed out to only interested parties.
Think about this a moment, suppose that you have little experience at trading, you are relatively naive about futures trading and you are looking to supplement your income. You hear an advertisement on AM radio about magic trading software that turns your personal home computer into a virtual ATM machine. You call the phone number and the salesperson tells you about the fantastic world of algorithmic trading of financial futures. He tells you that this is how the big boys on Wall Street are making their millions of dollars. They do it by trading with special software that supposedly can predict the stock future. The pitch is simple…spend $25,000 for the magic software, and in return, you receive a virtual money printer that verifiably produces between $150,000 and $200,000 in annual profits. For many folks, the allure is incredibly enticing. However, for those of us that have been around this game of trading for any amount of time can fully attest…its not that easy! In fact, making any profit whatsoever is incredibly difficult.
In addition to Avenge Trading making these outrageous claims of profitability, and describing trading as a simpleton’s chore, they also have absolutely zero disclosure about whom is running the company. In my original review, I lambasted the company about this. They wanted people to send them $25,000 for magic trading software, yet the company refused to disclose whom was running the company, or whom owned the company? Whom would be crazy enough to randomly send $25,000 to person with zero proof? Apparently a lot of people.
The Magic Of Advertising
Part of the research that I conduct with trading vendors is to figure out how they are marketing. How are they spreading out, into the public space, and getting their message out? I find this part of writing the review process to be immensely interesting. Some of these trading vendors are incredible marketers. So how does Avenge Trading lure folks into the marketing net? The method is primarily AM radio and Google advertising. In particular, Avenge Trading taps into the right wing, angry and disaffected conservative base of voters. They tap into the resentment of “Wall Street Fat Cats”, the political elite, the well connected and secretive financial types that apparently have monopolized the easy opportunities of fast cash being doled out daily on Wall Street. Avenge Trading is exactly what is sounds like, its REVENGE against those that have all the easy money opportunities. Finally, a person can spend only $25,000 and they will be avenged and finally be part of the American dream. That dream of wealth and personal freedom, that American dream that we all believe in our teens and twenties, but begins to fade as we enter middle age. Avenge Trading is that last chance to finally grasp that dream and be somebody really important, and achieve the magnificent status of being wealthy and a proud American.
Some readers might believe that my marketing hypothesis is as incredible as the promised returns of Avenge Trading. However, the marketing of Avenge is quite direct, and makes no diversion away from conservative voters. One of the paid pitchmen for Avenge Trading is none other than Ben Shapiro, a right wing wonder boy that is often seen commenting on Fox News about something horrible that a democrat did. I am not going to drag politics into this review, however I am simply stating the obvious in that Avenge Trading is using right wing media as a means to specifically target the conservative voter demographic. The following Google ad is being prominently displayed on most conservative news outlets.
In addition to Google adwords advertising, and purchasing advertising space directly to be directly displayed onto right wing websites, Avenge Trading also invests heavily in AM radio shows. In fact, if you Google “Avenge Trading radio show”, you will find links to radio shows in nearly all major markets in the United States. Are these live radio shows? No, these pre-recorded, one hour radio infomercials that are expertly produced and hosted by Geraldo Rivera. Have a listen:
If you listened to any of this well produced infomercial, you have to agree that the marketing is excellent. The messaging is amazing. Just imagine for a moment, you are a middle aged guy that works a middle class job, administrating the delivery of sewer pipes from point A to point B. You earn $50k to $90k a year and you just know that this is the best life has to offer. Your wife drives a 10 year old car that needs new tires, and your kids are in community college. Life is a grind and it is not getting better, all the while you keep getting older, you have little savings. Those hopes and dreams from your youth are now becoming unattainable fantasies. Your resentment boils over, you are mad. Mad at the “takers” in our society, you know those people…they pay no taxes and get all sorts of government handouts. You are mad at the politicians, mad at the Muslims, mad at the illegal Mexicans driving down wages and having anchor babies, mad at planned parenthood. And your only tribe in which to commiserate can be found on AM radio. Those amazingly sympathetic talking heads that understand your frustration, you know know whom I speak of: Ben Shapiro, Laura Ingraham, Rush Limbaugh, Mark Levine, Sean Hannity, Glenn Beck, all of them exciting those base resentments. And then all of a sudden, nestled in between all of this negativity comes this amazing infomercial about financial prosperity and personal freedom.
This infomercial speaks to you. It is full of hope and promise. Every sentence is about freedom and personal wealth and a better life. The music is exciting and pulses with the promise of better 
days ahead. Then Geraldo Rivera asks you, “image having unlimited wealth and personal freedom by working only two hours a day?”. Imagine travelling the world and having the freedom to what you want, when you want, how you want…its time to be Avenged! And so, for the next hour you listen to how simple and easy and amazing it is to have magic software that generates a fantastic daily income from the comfort of ones own home.
Well, if it is so easy…then why sell the software? Why would the developer sell the software? If it were me, I would sit in my underwear all day and crank out profits and have scantily clad bikini models waiting on my every beck and call. Heck, I would buy a fleet of yachts and a few islands, and a gaggle of beautiful models, and some fancy sports cars. And unlimited Grey Poupon. And an NFL team, where I would name myself the head coach and design the cheerleaders uniforms with loving detail.
Of course, we all know that life is never so easy. There is no free lunch. And if it sounds too good to be be true, then it probably is. And in the case of Avenge Trading Software, apparently the story of this software is much more potent than the hard cold reality of the software.
Introducing Gordon Driver
The common theme among all of these magical trading software developers is that they are all great at telling the story of their magical trading software, but none of them is ever willing to actually prove the software works by trading it themselves. All the time, I ask for proof in the form of account statements, and the response is always “NO”. However, they are more than willing to provide hundreds of testimonials from hundreds of happy customers that are supposedly generating huge profits. But once I contact these supposedly outrageously happy purchasers of the magic trading software, none of them is willing to provide me any proof that they have ever made a profit at trading.
In the case of Avenge Trading Software, the developer is named Gordon Driver. And apparently, he believed so much in his magical trading software that he went out and solicited over $17,000,000 in investor funds in which to trade his magical day trading software. Unfortunately, the software did not perform as well as hoped and Gordon Driver quickly lost $3.5 million dollars out of a $3.7 million dollar account. Amazingly, Gordon lost 94% of his account.
So what about the other $14,000,000 that Gordon Driver raised from investors? Approximately $2,100,000 went into his pocket to “support a lavish lifestyle that included meals, housing, and gambling trips to Las Vegas casino’s“. The remaining funds were paid back to clients in the form of supposed profits from the amazing day trading software. This whole story is so zany that most people simply are not going to believe what I am writing. The following is a press release directly from the FBI, in which Gordon Driver was just sentenced to 12 years in Federal Prison (October 21, 2015).
FBI-—-Nevada-Man-Sentenced-to-More-Than-12-Years-in-Federal-Prison-for-Running-Ponzi-Scheme-Involving-E-Mini-SP-FuturesIf you read this piece from the newsroom of the FBI, you were probably floored. I know I was pretty shocked at the size and the scope of this fraud. What is amazing to me is that even after the FBI shut him down, he simply took the software and decided to sell it as a stand alone investment product, ie magic trading software. All of this begs the question, if he could not get his magic trading software to work for himself, then how can a person reasonably expect a better result?
Doing Hard Time In Federal Prison
As many of my readers know, I am also a convicted investment scoundrel. I was convicted of running a ponzi scheme and served a 33 month sentence in Federal Prison. For those of you that are not familiar with the Federal Prison system, there is very little “good time” that can be earned. In fact, a person in the federal system serves 85% of the time that the judge issues at sentencing. For me, I served a little over 28 months in prison and the remaining months in a half way house. For Gordon Driver, the judge ordered a sentence of 12.58 years. And so, Gordon Driver will be serving a mandatory sentence of 10.70 years in Federal Prison. I served my sentence at Lompoc Federal Prison Camp, however Gordon was sentenced to Terminal Island. What is the difference? Gordon Driver is not in a relatively safe and easy going camp, he has been placed behind the barbed wire in a restricted movement prison.
Terminal Island Federal Prison is not a fun place to be. There are no open fields, no fresh air, no relative seclusion, no privacy whatsoever. He is currently doing his time in a what I can only describe as a terrifying and horrible place. Gordon Driver is doing HARD TIME. For the next 10+ years, he is going to be sleeping in a massive dormitory that is packed full of snoring, farting, shouting, violent, obscene, and disrespectful folk. These are not “white collar campers”, these are people with a minimum sentence of 10+ years and/or considered violent criminals. And believe me, some of these people are extremely violent, manipulative, and incredibly disrespectful. He is in with the tough crowd and every single day is going to be acutely painful. If you are one of the victims of Gordon’s investment scheme, then rest assured that Gordon Drivers life is essentially over. He is currently 58 and will not be eligible for release until he is nearly 70. And that is if he even survives…the Federal Prison health care system is beyond horrible. Have a heart condition? You are dead. Any of your vital organs go on the blink, and you are dead. Have a toothache? There is no friendly dentist that provides fillings with a loving hand. The tooth gets pulled. In fact, in the Federal Prison system, nearly everyone over the age of 60 is toothless simply because the policy is to only pull teeth. It is a heartless place where you are no longer a person, you are simply a number. And the order of the day is to keep you caged like an animal at the lowest possible expense to the taxpayer, this means that the food and the health care is terrible. Not a fun place to be folks.
For me, the most humiliating thing about Federal Prison was when family came to visit. In particular, my son was only three years old and he wanted to jump all over me. However, he had to experience the humiliation of having to be frisked and patted down by a prison guard. Imagine having your own little child, and your wife come to visit you in prison, and they have to be frisked and searched before being allowed to visit inside of a sterile room. A room that is monitored with watchful eyes and cameras. More humiliation when friends and family come to visit, these are not happy occasions, these are incredibly painful experiences for all parties involved. For me, I felt such shame and remorse for the pain and hurt that I caused others. Having family, friends, and colleagues visit you in prison is the ultimate shame, absolute rock bottom. Rest assured, Gordon Driver will also experience this. All prisoners experience this pain, shame and humiliation.
One final note on the pain and humiliation of being a prisoner is the final insult of dying in prison. I personally witnesses several people die in prison, most from easily curable diseases. When you die in prison, the morgue is called in to retrieve your warm body. However, they do not simply pick up your body and place it onto a gurney to be wheeled out. First, they shackle the dead body with handcuffs and leg irons. And they even chain the body to the gurney. Even in death, the body is subjected to this final humiliation.
Fake Investment Schemes: Ponzi’s, Magic Trading Software, Fraudulent Trading Rooms
People that sell “magic trading software”, are really just selling a fraudulent investment scheme. There really is not that much difference between the person selling a full blown ponzi, a person selling magic trading software, and a person selling a fraudulent day trading room. They all cause financial loss and intense emotional pain on the victims. I am sure that many will argue that a fraudulent day trading room and magic trading software are not as bad as the person executing a ponzi. But I would argue that they are nearly identical. All three have the same conclusion, and that is financial loss and intense emotional pain.
The people that sell “magic trading software” and live day trading rooms will argue that they are only responsible for the fee’s that they charge. But do they ever think about the countless victims that take their advice and lose thousands of dollars in savings? The ponzi scheme is easier to reconcile, you have a list of victims and an amount that is easy to count. But what about the guy that spends thousands of dollars to sit in a live day trading room, where the moderator does not trade successfully nor has he ever traded successfully. The moderators of these live day trading rooms know that they are losers and cannot make a profit, but they have no problem watching the masses pile into their trading rooms and take their losing investment advice.
The charlatans selling the magic trading software are by and far just failed traders themselves. In interviewing many, the story is all the same in that they had previously attempted to trade successfully and simply were net losers. They could not make a profit with their technique or their approach, but in their own personal desperation decided to go the dark side, they took their failed ideas and packaged them into a bundle of failed ideas that could be purchased for a fee. To me, the magic trading software hustlers are the worst because they are the most sneaky in the execution of their scheme. They sell hope in the form of squiggly lines on a chart and convince the victims to repeatedly throw themselves repeatedly upon the fire of a failed approach.
Some of these indicator hustlers and trading room charlatans are quite cynical. Most are prior victims themselves. They got into the trading game and got hustled and swindled themselves by other indicator hustlers. They spent thousands of dollars on books and seminars, and indicators and systems and feel like something is owed to them. They were mistreated by others, and so they feel that their own actions are now justified. One such charlatan that recently rubbed me raw was John Novak of Nexgen Magic Trading Software. I wrote a scathing review of his product and highlighted his inability to ever produce a verifiable profit during his 15 year career of indicator hustling. His response was to blame his victims. He say;s that the problem is not himself, but people are not willing to work hard enough. Complete BS. John Novak proclaims himself to be highly successful on a daily basis, and yet multiple governmental agencies have already proven this man to be a fraud and phony.
Truly, I could spend a week talking about all of the hustlers that I have encountered in the past year of writing highly detailed reviews of the trading educational industry. John Novak is just one flea on the body of a big shaggy dog on a hot July afternoon. Lets get back to Avenge and wrap this up.
Wrapping Things Up
At this point, its simply amazing that Avenge Trading is still hustling magic trading software. Even with this negative review, I doubt that my message will be heard over the paid endorsements of Heraldo Rivera or Ben Shapiro. These right wing guys have massive audiences and are fully aware of the shenanigans of Gordon Driver, yet they continue to peddle the software.
Well, that’s it for today. Sorry for yet another negative write up.
Oh, one last final note…Avenge Trading Software used to have a couple of salesman: Dr. Vance Cast and Bobby Fusco. Many of you reading this are probably scratching your heads, but these bozo’s left Avenge Trading and started their very own fraudulent magic trading software named Delta Trading Group. The good doctor, aka Dr. Vance Cast has spent 18 of the past 22 years in various prisons for drug trafficking and got his PhD for only $69 from a fake online university. And of course Bobby Fusco is another charlatan that has been scamming people for many years with a grant writing scam. The scam is simple, pay Bobby Fusco $2,000 to $4,000 and he will guarantee delivery of a government grant for between $50,000 and $500,000. Bobby Fusco is along time con artist, I recommend that you Google “Bobby Fusco Fraud”. A portion of the internet is dedicated to the various hustles of this idiot. Apparently drug trafficking and fake government grants is not as profitable as selling magic trading software.
Thanks for reading and don’t forget to leave a comment below. Even the haters and trolls will find that their voices are also heard.
Hi
I was part of that scam. I first saw an ad on Craigslist. This was years ago, maybe 4 years ago and they had a different name that I think started with an S. Anyway, I paid an intro fee of $1000 fora couple months to get room access and when I was in the room, I could never get the same stops, entries that they had and they never showed their Dom. Also, Bobby was the guy I talked to on the phone and now he is at delta trading. I never made a dime in their webinar room. Toughest $2000 loss but life goes on.
Sad to say, the audio commercial could have been slotted on CoastToCoastAM. Reminds me of the “carnivora” commercial. or colloidal silver. it has the production of a late night am ad. Also reminds me of the “wise-trade” commercials. I remember watching one of those and a caller asked why their trade was going south, and it was like ummm…just hold on we’ll get back to you. 25k for the software, and 2.5k a month? one of the highest fees for a scam vendor. well I guess to hire Geraldo for an infomercial. Wonder where “Janet” has gone off to now. I saw a former trading room “secretary” of Rockwell Trading migrate to John Carter.
I agree with you 100%, Emmett. Brandon has shown himself to be honest and sincere in every way; he truly believes in the viability of their program and is above reproach, as far as I’m concerned. I see him as (yet another) victim of his father’s dishonesty. not a perpetrator.
Re: Edu’s post:
Brandon is Gordon Driver’s son (which probably explains why we haven’t heard from him since August.) Janet Driver is his mother (and Gordon’s wife.)
Emmet said it best: “this just gets nuttier and nuttier.”
I have spoken with Brandon over the telephone, on several different occasions. Whatever stupidity his father did should not reflect on his son. He is a very nice young man. And he has gone through absolute hell.
Brandon is his own person.
NASA rocket science? Don’t think so…recording science maybe?
http://www.christianmusicarchive.com/label/exile
Gordon got his start as a failed christian concert promoter in Canada that was so colossal it became a national news story. Chuck Smith of Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa took pity and bailed Gordon out of his grand flopola. He then came to California to be Chuck’s soundroom engineer for many years. He recordrd and produced all of Chuck’s Word For Today tapes. He knew everyone in christian music and broadcasting. He started a christian rock music show on KYMS called the Edge, where he preached the gospel, and he began his own record company. These endeavors fell through for him as well. He got a divorce, and developed his magic bean software. He recruited old friends, the Mainse brothers from Canada, to be investment finders. I believe Gordon thought his magic beans would help him reach the golden goose, but when it didn’t happen, he took the dark path instead of coming clean. Maybe he will find his redemption in jail like Emmett did. He definitely knows what the Bible says…without even cracking it open. But then again, the doubling down part of repackaging from Access to Avenge is a sure sign of callous. I wonder whose name he attached to that one. I guess we all have to pay the piper somehow sometime somewhere! His victims were mostly good trusting hard working christian individuals and families.
Brandon, Brandon, come in Brandon, do not see any comment or feedback from you since your last post on August 27th. You and Janet Driver are two pivotal agents taking calls and issuing contracts to prospective members. Would like to hear your rebuttal to posts since then, including the imprisonment of the supposed mastermind and former NASA rocket-scientist behind Avenge named Gordon Driver (the person who was in charge of new member training). You knew of Mr. Driver’s guilty plea as of April 23rd, but continued to support Avenge through posts on this site. Would like to know your background? Who is Janet Driver? Is Avenge a spinoff of Asend ()? What about the sentencing of Mr. Driver on October 22nd ()?
If no defense is issued by you, will assume that all that has been posted about Avenge since September is true.
Brandon is Gordon’s son. Janet is Gordon’s wife and they operate out of their home in Henderson, NV.
A guaranteed 10% return a month. Really!! Just how naive can people be. Even Madoff did not promise this kind of return. Real world trading does not work like this. It is beyond ridiculous and any one foolish enough to believe this kind of crap deserves what they get.
Maybe you and others posting fantasy results are trading room operators or vendors perpetuating a fantasy to sucker in people.
You know I just saw big foot, the loch ness monster and Santa flying around in his reindeer. And you know what I have in common with you; never of us can ever show any proof.
Can someone under the right market conditions do this for a short period; sure. But BS claims like this make me ill. 10% Guaranteed a month. Goldman Sachs would pay him a billion a year if he could do that.
Sadly it is this kind of crap why 95% of day traders lose money. Do not be a SUCKER!!
My start in the trading world was 15 years ago. I enrolled in a trading school in Southern California. The school was owned, and classes taught by a man named Les M. As a school member, you could learn and watch Les place futures trades. If you invested money, you were guaranteed a return of 10% per month. The guy was an amazing trader. We as a class watched, learned, and saw the actual results. We only traded the daily charts, and all trades were analyzed and place prior to the market openings. No one hiding behind a curtain, 100% transparency. The problem was that he was not licensed, had 500 investors, and paid a fixed return. He kept all profits above the fixed amount. The real crime was a confiscatory government. Because Les was paying out a fixed 10% per month, the Feds came it, shut down the school, and froze all investor accounts, prosecuted Les, kept all the investors money, and returned 10 cents on the dollar back to the investors. The government claimed the other remaining 90% taken from the investor accounts and kept by the FEDs was due to their cost and reimbursement for doing the right thing. What BS, What’s amazing is that 100% of all investor money was in the trading account with current weekly profit when they shut down the school During the time I was making 10% a month, I told 10 colleagues of mine in the real estate business about the program and they also made money. I witnessed for a year right in front of my eyes trading profits being made of no less than 20% per month the entire time I was there. Some months over 30% was generated. After the government shut down the school, and robbed the investors money, I called the FEDs to get my 90% back that they stole. They told me I was a promoter for telling 10 colleagues about the program and to consider myself fortunate that they didn’t send me to prison. Not one investor lost a dollar from trading or from Les, but had 90% of it ripped off by big brother. It ended up being proven that all profits were paid from trading profits, and not from any ponzi, and I was threatened by the Feds because I told others about a program that actually made money, with the crime being he was paying a fixed guarantee of 10% per month? The point of my story, is that if Avenge was actually robbing people, and Geraldo Rivera, was promoting a true fraud, why is Geraldo not being held accountable as a true scam promoter? I actually saw brokerage statements at the school. Isn’t Geraldo at least responsible enough to request and prove he has witnessed and followed up with authenticating claims before being a shamed pitch man? Not knowing is not a reason according to the government. Anyway, the good news out of it all is that I learned an extremely unique, one of a kind trade methodology and skill from Les that has lasted me 15 years and counting. I type this looking out my office which looks directly over the ocean. My office door is open and I hear the ocean waves. I don’t share the unique trade method, I don’t sell the method, and I don’t have a live trade room with hundreds to baby sit. When you do have a method that truly works, you aren’t out hocking it to every Tom, Dick, and Harry Thank you Les, and F.U. government wolves. Have to go now, a bikini clad model is calling my name …. just kidding about that part … but my wife is better than a gaggle of models.
Sure would be wonderful if some of the knowledge Les gave to you could be passed on. If you have any recommendations…Thanks
I have to add; promises of unrealistic returns is just mathematically impossible. If you do not believe me just do the math yourself. If you can double, a 100% return in a month, that 5K account becomes 10K in a month then 20K in 2 months, then 40K in 3 months. You will quickly become the richest man on the planet and I can assure you the richest man on the planet is not a day trader. Hedge funds pay millions to anyone that can make a 20% return. If you can do this you could get billions.
I get ill when I hear trading rooms anyone stating these type of returns are possible. You have better odds playing the lottery and making a million dollars than you do of this happening, but as long as people believe this is the norm, trading rooms will continue to rip people off.
Again I challenge anyone to show Emmett they can do this or are we suppose to just take your word for it.
Vlad,
I will tell you exactly why 99.9% of trading rooms are run by con artist. As a day trader who is finally day trades profitable, at first I did not understand why all these trading rooms teach complete fantasy trading. I refer to it as learning to trade in the Matrix. There is a reason that these trading rooms never show their DOM or keep accurate account of their trades; because their method cannot be traded by anyone profitably. So a “Truly” honest person is not going to be able to trade that way profitably so they would not open a trading room, which only leaves the scam artist.
So this obviously leaves the question, why do the trading rooms teach how to trade in the Matrix instead of teaching how to actually trade profitably in the real world. I have discussed this in other post and not going to go through a complete explanation here. Emmett needs to give me a TAB at the top of this Blog where I explain the Matrix and the Trading Room scams. But the bottom line is these trading rooms are not about helping anyone to learn to trade profitably but to scam you out of your money by selling fantasy. In many ways they are giving the people what they want. In fact they say 95% of traders fail. I say 100% of traders that trade in the Matrix loss money. Here is the fantasy world.
With a $5,000 account you will trade futures with an 80% win rate, using a 4, 8, or 10 tick arbitrary stop loss, have an 80% win rate, make $250K a year and take home a $1000 a day paycheck. It is insanity!!!!! The Matrix is basically to sucker in underfunded traders into a fantasy world. These would be traders are clueless about real rates of return that are possible via trading. These underfunded traders cannot trade the real market in front of them so these trading rooms use indicators or some other BS method to create the Matrix. GTR does it saying they are using Market Profile, so you can trade futures with just a few ticks stop loss. All complete BS.
I have never talked about my personal returns on any of my post, but I am going to do it here to show you the difference in the real world and the matrix. As of today my annualized day trading return is predicted to be a little less than 50%. Now in the real that is amazing, but in the matrix that return is unacceptable. After all they are suppose to make $250,000 with a $5k account. And you can switch $5K account for $50K account. You are not going to make a 400% return more less a 1000% + return. You have the same chance of doing that as the person trying to calculate the last digit of pi. But how does a person with even a $50K account make a living on a 50% return. They cannot. And some years your return will be negative, that is how the real world works.
I am going to tell you a secret the same person that could have day traded profitably 10 years ago could do it today. There is not some secret Holy Grail or some new amazing indicator. Trading successfully has nothing to do with any of that. I have a set of what I call my Holly Grails (HG) and guess what; not one of them is about a trade setup!! I tell this to people until I am blue in the facet. It is not about any Holy Grail trade setup. It is about trading the market structure in front of you and not some fantasy world with arbritary stop losses and targets all based on your funding ability. The market does not give a flying F if you are underfunded. It will take your Stop Loss and laugh all the way to the bank.
Bottom line if you do not have a 25K account to trade stock you either need to trade micro forex otherwise you have 2 options: 1) Never trade live or 2) Blow your account. If I had the time and energy I think I would offer a $10K reward to anyone that can prove they can trade the Matrix profitably over any reasonable period of time. I have no doubt my money would be safe.
Rob, for the most part, I agree with your post. I posted in an earlier review about trading the market structure and using stops based on that, not on the amount you might be “comfortable” losing. That’s what the trade rooms sell, a comfort level along with the idea of making an outrageous amount of money for so little risk. You can trade with small stops based on the market structure you are looking at, but you’d have to trade more than a couple of contracts. And more importantly, you’d have to have complete and definitive risk management, obeyance to stops and the discipline to trade and take losses along with trades that are profitable. You can’t have one without the other. Trading is a business and if you don’t treat it like a business, you may as well go to Vegas. You have to have a plan based on the markets you are trading and your own risk tolerance to trade within that market’s structure.
Emmett, I was watching The Godfather last night, but your review about prison life is so much more interesting. The Godfather is for the most part, fiction, but your stuff — wow, you can’t make that up! Thanks for all the work you are doing and even more for your own self revelation about your past.
It would have taken me a paper to write all aspects of trading properly, but you are 100% correct you must trade the actual market structure and must trade multiple contracts, but most people do not have the funds to do this and that leads to the dark path of the Matrix (Darn with star wars I wanted to say the dark side), which includes all the BS arbitrary stops and target profits and worst of worst they show some method using an inverted Risk to Reward were you need an 80% win rate to be successfully. Honestly my best advice is you would be better off and have better odds of making money by just playing the lottery.
And then comes in these Trading Rooms with smooth, sincere sounding operators telling you how they can help you reach your goals. And take advantage of some types desperate individuals who are Frankly just clueless about money and return one can get on money. As I have posted previously the Devil seldom wears horns and carries pitch forks.
I am sooooo embarrassed to admit this, but as I have previously mentioned I was suckered into a trading room and that complete scam artist taught you to use an 8 tick stop loss to make 4 ticks on CL. I look back and am now amazed I could have ever been that stupid. Man that Kool-Aid is powerful. I mean how in the world could an 8 tick arbitrary stop loss be the right stop loss for on every trade every day. I better stop writing. I get angry just thinking about it.
Not really defending this scumbag for using his client’s money in a ponzi pool to fund his lifestyle. But I am just wondering and curious here. If he reported his trading losses to his clients, then it would have been all legal? Like his fund would have be shut down due to bad performance, but it would have been the right and legal thing to do? So the dark side is that turning point where one decides to fake fund results or become a scam sim trading educator.
Sam, the point is, Avenge wasn’t forthcoming on the matter of who owns it. How many people who paid $25,000 would otherwise have chosen to hold on to their money had they known that Avenge is owned by a felon? When an entity tries to hide information from would be clients who may be exercising due diligence, then it obviously isn’t conducting business in good faith.
Rob,
I understand the cynicism. In 99.999% of the cases you’re correct. However, there are people that in real life with real money do far better than you seem to think. If I used $100K, a 50% return would be a virtual nightmare for me. There is a limit to how high you can go before the rate of return starts to even out. Once you’re around a million or so, the style of trading I would use to double a $20k account in a month or two will probably be returning more like 20%-30% every couple of months.
I have managed to double several different small accounts in a month without using lucky trades. I had to use a higher amount of the account than might make you comfortable, but I don’t believe it was going to blow up my account. Haven’t done that in well over a decade, since I figured out how to really trade.
I still read these things out of amusement, and have no interest in actually trading someone’s system. I worked long and hard to figure out what works for me. I lost for a long while before I got it right. I won’t say how much you could make, but building a small futures account into a sizable one in a year is definitely possible. However, you will not find someone on the internet to teach you to do it. You will have to get ready to work you *** off for probably 5+ years to find your trading style and consistency. Persistence to learn is most important at first, then finding consistency in your trading is everything. At least that is my take after a long hard trip.
Here is the thing. I can make a great deal of money trading. I have ZERO interest in selling what I do. I have ZERO interest in opening a “trading room”. It isn’t because I’m mean. It isn’t because I’m so greedy. I worked very hard to find my trading self. I can make a very satisfying amount for me. Why would I want to answer endless questions from several hundred people ALL month EVERY month for $200 a month. What can I make $50K a month? It isn’t worth the hassle, unless you don’t know how to trade.
If I have a setup that could turn $100k into $1 million in a year, do you really think I would EVER sell it to you for $5K or $25K or even $100K? If I have a setup that will really turn $1k into $100k in 2 years, do you really think you’re going to get it from me for $200 a month? for $1k payment? You could make $99,000 profit in 1 or 2 years and I get less than 5%? Does that even sound remotely reasonable to anyone. Hedge funds charge 20%+ of your profit, but you think I’m gong to come along and give you something that took me years to figure out for virtually nothing. I’m sorry, but even $25k is virtually nothing if you can really make $200K each year and I get a one time payment.
Second thing. I’m not sure I can even really teach you MY style.
Rob is right that trading room are pretty much all scams. There are some people out there can really do some pretty big returns on small money though. The problem is they have no interest in selling them on the internet. I can trade, travel, and have fun with family and friends with no hassles other than the stress from my job (trading). Why would I saddle myself with a bunch of people who think paying me $200 per month or a one time fee that will amount to less than 1% so I can answer their endless annoying questions. Bottom line, I don’t need the money.
Best comment I have read so far and totally true.
DavidR,
Are you the Wyckoff David R from BMT? Here is one thing I agree with you on, return is tied to risk, which is also tied to drawdown. I risk a very small percentage of my account as I do not like big drawdowns. If you are down big will you be able to take the next trade becomes an issue. If I risked a larger percentage of my account I could make a larger return.
Also on trading rooms, I would never run a trading room because If I put out my trades entry and exits and a room of people copied my trades there would be HUGH slippage. It is hard for to see any real trader would do this unless they were in reality front running and running a pump and dumb scam.
But the promise of unrealistic returns is why most people are lured into daytrading and then fail. Another day trader that I skype with asked me why bother posting here most people trying these trading room are on crack (not literally) and he has a point, but if help one person from throwing their money down the tube I have done my job.
And I challenge anyone claiming insane returns to show their brokerage statement to Emmett and prove it. Because Frankly I do not think it can be done. And I will do something I never thought I would do; I will show my brokerage statement for the last 3 months proving that I day trade profitably and make the returns I claimed. And BTW this is something that Emmett ask for and virtually not a single trading room can do it.
WOW, I’m baffled. Convicted to 12 years in prison and still out to scam people. You just can’t make stuff like this up. I don’t understand why Ben Shapiro associates himself with these low-lifes. I mean, how much could they be paying him ?
The part about how Gordon Driver will spend the the rest of his days in some shit hole prison having the toughest time in his last days and scared to pick up a bar of soap in the shower is a very satisfying read Emmett, I hope he rots in there.
That’s what I love about America compared to here in the UK, if you are a serious criminal who has committed a serious crime that has effected peoples live then they don’t fuck about, They will put you in with the scum that you are or Just give you the death sentence.
I know many people that have been banged up over here in the UK and the jails seem like a fucking holiday camp compared to the states.
I cant believe how many dodgy trade rooms there are in the U.S and why there is no regulatory body that they have to go through.
Surely somethings gotta change soon or these scumbags are going to keep on doing it.
I got sucked in by that cunt Simon yousef at the GTR and now I just see him for what he really is, a low life con artist who couldn’t make it as a trader, he has made 13 million dollars robbing people for his shitty repackaged ideas that are worth fuck all.
It would put a huge smile on my face if he ends up in one of those scummy hell hole prisons getting abused every day and being someones bitch.
Love your expression. Lol! The US prison system is no joke. In particular, the Federal prosecutors are absolute killers, and they have no problem putting a person away for life.
I am sure that the Federal prosecutors and the CFTC lawyers would be all over this industry, however the federal criminal justice system is currently focused on terrorism and immigration. At some point, the pendulum is going to swing back around and just watch how these nasty Federal prosecutors begin putting a wrecking ball through these “trading educators”.
In the mean time, we have to self regulate and self police.
What you say may be correct Jon, except of course if you’re a bank CEO or other senior manager who destroyed the financial lives of tens of thousands and caused a global financial crisis, the consequences of which still have to be faced and dealt with. If you’re one of these scumbags you’ll get a multi-million dollar bonus for screwing up the world and moved on to another organization where you can continue your criminal activities without any consequences at all.
I totally agree Stray Dog, I was with MF global a few years back when it went bust and it took me 3 years to get my money back. what the fuck happened to that crook Jon corzine? not much.
Yes the bankers are certainly culpable, but where is the criticism for the govt. authorities who refuse to proactively go after these criminals? The govt. is supposed to be the sheriff, putting the bad guys behind bars. but because they get bought off, nothing gets done until huge damage has been done, ala Madoff. IMO the bankers and traders are people who will try to get away with as much as they can before someone stops them and all too often the govt. drags its feet.
Thanks for the update Emmett.
Thanks for the update review and the in depth thoughts. The anecdotes about life and dying in federal prison at its worst is terrifying. So that’s where Geraldo Rivera ended up. He’s just as culpable promoting this scam. Good job covering AM radio commercials which is absolutely spot on about these so called conservative radio stations which now feature nothing but character assassination radio shows and allowing sponsors like Avenge and other scams. I heard a few myself as a listener including ads by Preston “pirate” James. He would end his ad with “make your money back!” presumably referring to trading losses. Amazed at how some would be taken at 25k. But then again there are newbie folks who are initially fooled at the pricing who presume the trading education industry is regulated and legit.
Man I read these reviews and just think they need to reword that famous saying to:
There is a sucker born every second and there is a scum bag trading room operator waiting for him.
And I think it is a complete evil cycle with one thing feeding on the next. I am sure most brokers realize 99.999% of these trading room are scams but they say nothing or they lose most of their day trading customers. And the same goes for Ninja and the other platforms. Ninja is one of the worst by allowing the trading room operators to give webinars and they do nothing to check if these guys are legit and can actually trade profitably. In my opinion that is essentially giving the con artist an endorsement.
It is just very very sad! Until the regulators get serious about this issue it will just continue. When is the last time you read about a trading room operator going to jail on running a complete scam?
99.0% of all trading rooms are just scams with only one goal; to take your money; that is it. Until people wake up and realize everything in the trading room is an illusion to sucker you out of your money, they will continue to get taken. Yes the member typing in the chat box how he just made another $1000 today, is in reality the Trading Room operator himself or brother. It is all one big illusion.
But if you still believe I have invented a new Super Improved Red Light Green Light Indicator. You do not have to do anything it will automatically trade for you. Guaranteed $20K a month minimum income and I am running a once in a lifetime super sale for just the next 24 hours. You can have this amazing system for the unbelievable low price of $199. I tell you it took me 10 years and $50K to invent this system and you get it for only $199. I must be losing my mind, but I want to give back to others who need some help. Just send the money via Western Union. What someone asked why my IP is from Bangladesh and I live in a mud hut. Clearly you are mistaken, I am riding my Lamborghini and flying my private jet.
The only question you will have is how will I spend all the money I am making. And for that I say just be a philanthropist, because you need to show humility and give some back. And of course there is what I term the Gold Seal ,”Money Back Guaranty”. So send that money now and start making money hands over fist. I have a link to my testimonials of traders who lost money for years until they bought my system.
Now back to reality:
And for those that think anything I wrote is over the top. I pulled this stuff from things I experienced from trading rooms even the philanthropist part. Without mentioning its name; the trading room that scammed me ( yes even I was scammed once and only once) the operator would say: when you make all that money using his system, it is important to give back. I am telling you they know all the right words to scam you.
Really good read. Thanks for the comment. I especially liked, “when you make all that money trading my system, it is important to give back”. Hilarious.
I am pretty certain that the regulators have pretty much thrown up their hands in resignation. Hopefully, my “free market” approach to reviewing trading vendors works.
Look, dude, I know it’s fashionable to slam the guy who is just trying to earn a living but most of us don’t have the amazing foresight you were blessed with. Your assertion about wanting to make $20k a month out of the gate is BS, myself and other traders I know wanted nothing more then to make enough to pay the very minimum of our bills. People like Tim Sykes who try to suck people in with orange lambos never appealed to me one bit, yet he’s the one guy who is given air time on cnbc and Larry King…..
These rooms existing says far more about the business climate/culture then anything else. Emmett is literally handing these guys on a silver platter to the SEC yet every one of them are still in business and business is booming. Madoff was found out years before anything was done, by that time he screwed thousands more out of their life savings.
LG,
I struggled whether to respond to your post or not, because I will come across as the Grinch that Stole Christmas. There Buster of fantasies. But if I do not respond, I know who will; the Trading Room Operator They will sound so caring and genuine and how they understand your pain and how they went through the same thing until they learned how to day trade. Yes according to that wonderful TR operator all you have to do is buy his education course and you will be on your way to financial freedom.
Come on man, do you really think if you are struggling to pay your bills, Day Trading is the answer?? You will lose the education money you spend and then even lose more money day trading, because 99.9% of these TR teach underfunded people how to trade the Matrix; a fantasy world where you can ignore the actual market structure and just use arbitrary stop loss and targets. My best advice is: DO NOT DAYTRADE IF YOU ARE NOT PROPERLY FUNDED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is exactly how the TRs scam desperate people. I would say you have better odds of paying your bills playing the lottery than you do day trading if you are an underfunded investor trading futures. Just because they let you trade futures with a $5,000 account does not mean you should do it. I can say this until I am blue in the face and yet these TR continue to sucker people in.
It is amazing how scammers are drawn to this business like Jupiter’s gravity .
Any chance of a page dedicated to ranking all the scumbags by the longest, most illustrious rap sheet?
Would be interesting to see how the crimes all up amongst the top fraudsters.
Have been at this a year now, it just keeps getting nuttier and nuttier.
Read every letter of this one, and believe this was one of your top 3 for both entertainment and insight ….
Thanks again.
Thanks for the update Emmett? I don’t see how they can continue this fraud. Seems like the FBI would go for the whole scam.
A question. In a thread a week or two ago you said that you were going to post a review of someone that ‘pays their bills’ by trading, and would do it ‘Thursday or Friday’. That should have been a week ago Thursday or Friday I think? Whatever happened to that review? Or did I just miss it?
He requested that I wait until the first week of January. Apparently he did not want to take in a host of new customers during the holidays. Sorry for the delay. Finding guys that pay the bills with trading profits has been elusive.
Good Article. The only correction is that Geraldo Rivera is no
“right wing guy”