Bulls On Wall Street
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Honesty
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Quality
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Cost
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Support
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Verified Trades
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User Experience
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Summary
Owner of company makes outrageous claims that, “Over the last 10 years, I have made millions trading stocks”. However, absolutely no proof exists and owner of company refuses to show proof. Owner of company is touting an unregistered broker/dealer operation that is in clear violation of existing US securities laws, and is a clear and imminent target of the SEC. Former insider and sales manager of company (2 years) came forth and told the real story about company, “its nothing more than an educational mill that prey’s on the naive and churns out nothing but failed traders”.
Thanks for reading today’s review of BullsOnWallStreet.Com
Bulls On Wall Street is a day trading educational company that was founded in 2009 by Kunal Desai. The company offers two primary trading products. The first is a “boot camp” type educational course at a cost of $2,850. The course is considered a foundational course that teaches the basics of day trading stocks. The second product offering is a broker dealer offering under the name: CliqueFund. What exactly is CliqueFund? CliqueFund is a quasi broker dealer not dissimilar to an ordinary stock broker like TD Ameritrade or Interactive Brokers. CliqueFund accepts client deposits into a personal trading account that is at the majority control of Kunal Desai. These client funds are pooled together into a single trading account. This account is then used to partition out portions of the account to aspiring day traders.
Why is CliqueFund pooling together customer funds? Quite simply, there is regulation in place that specifically prohibits accounts with less than $25k from making more than 4 day trades per week. In addition to restricting the amount of trades that a small account can place during the week, there are also rules in place that severely restrict the amount of leverage that these small account holders can access. The typical amount is 2/1 leverage. BullsOnWallStreet has devised a clever mechanism that specifically circumvents long standing securities laws. Specifically, how do they circumvent? In order to become a part of the BullsOnWallStreet “CliqueFund”, a person must first purchase the $2,850 educational boot camp. Once the person has purchased the boot camp, they are then admitted into CliqueFund. However, once they are admitted, they must immediately deposit an additional amount of $2,500 to $10,000. Once the deposit has been made in Kunal Desai’s trading account, they are then able to day trade with a margin amount of $25,000 to $200,000.
There are other costs associated with being a member of CliqueFund. Each trader is charged $335 per month to be a member. In addition, the trader must pay a commission per trade of .0024 per share of stock. At the end of each month, the trader must also pay Kunal 10% of any earnings from their day trading.
It is important to note that any funds deposited into Kunal’s CliqueFund will not be returned to the depositor, at any time. In other words, if you deposit $2,500 with Kunal, then your account balance immediately begins draining to the tune of $11 per day. If you do not trade, then at the end of the month, the balance will be $2,165. It is also important to note that a person cannot withdraw any funds unless the account balance is above the original deposit amount.
What happens if a person runs the account balance down to $500? The account is closed and Kunal keeps the $500. What happens if a person deposits $5,000 into Kunal’s trading account and then one week later, they encounter an emergency and need their $5,000 returned to them? The money is forfeited to Kunal. Once the deposit money is given to Kunal, then the money is his to do with as he deems.
Can a person continue to deposit more money into Kunal’s trading account? Yes. Kunal describes continued deposits into his trading account as “re-education fee’s”. Kunal will always gladly accept your money into his trading account.
Is this legal?
BullsOnWallStreet likes to describe CliqueFund as a “hedge fund”, however in interviews with T3 Capital, which is a fully licensed and regulated prop trading firm located in the United States, they describe CliqueFund as an outrageous scheme that’s sole purpose is to flagrantly circumvent US securities laws meant to protect investors from outright thievery. T3 Capital describes these types of firms as fly by night operations that are doomed to failure. “Eventually, securities regulators at the SEC will take notice and shut them down”. T3 describes this situation not as a “IF they will be shut down” but as a “WHEN will they be shut down”.
In my experiences with writing this blog, I have also come across several of these unlicensed prop trading firms that also circumvented US securities laws by pooling together client funds. The results were not pretty for investors at the prop firm known as Nonko. They were accepting trading accounts and simply allowing people to trade only on a trading simulator. Most people never knew they were trading on a simulator until after I published my article the proved that trades were only in SIM mode. Nonko would simply keep their monies without ever placing their trades on an exchange. In the rare instance where a trader would actually make money, Nonko would simply refuse to pay the trader. After publishing my article, Nonko quickly pulled down all of their websites and disappeared. The situation was a real mess for a lot of folks, and a real learning experience for me. This experience also was my first interactions with SEC investigators where I was not the target, instead I was helping them.
One of the SEC investigators that I conversed with is now in private practice and we spoke by telephone about CliqueFund. I asked his opinion and he gave a hilarious response, “This CliqueFund is about as much a hedge fund as an ice cream sandwich”. And, “we have seen these schemes come and go, over and over, it amazes me that people continually get suckered into these schemes”.
The big problem with these unregistered broker dealers like CliqueFund is that once the SEC finally arrives to shut them down, the money simply disappears. Some fine examples would be Lake Street Trading, Broadstreet Trading, Juggernaught Trading, IBWorldwide Trading, Nonko, and Team Trading. All of these firms shut down overnight and all funds went missing. What does an SEC shut down actually look like? You would think that the SEC would show up like thugs and kick doors and flash badges, but this is usually not the case. The SEC simply sends a one page letter that warns the entity to “Cease and Desist” from accepting customer funds and that they need to become registered. The proprietors of these unregistered broker dealers simply close up shop and keep the money. Does the depositor or customer have any recourse? Nope. This is all considered a civil manner and the only path forward for deposit holders is to hire a lawyer and file a lawsuit. Of course, most people do not do this and the scammers move onto the next scam.
Is CliqueFund a scam? In my opinion, it is not a scam. Rather, it is more like a food truck that shows up at the football stadium on game day. The stadium officials (SEC, T3 Capital, etc) that are all abiding by the rules are pissed off because Kunal’s food truck just showed up, and he is selling hot dogs and beer for only $5. All of the underfunded folks are going to rush to buy the cheap dogs and beer, and of course the stadium officials want to keep folks paying $7 for a hot dog and $14 for a beer. Once the stadium officials find Kunal they tell him to beat it, and he does. Usually very quickly. And this is exactly how CliqueFund is going to disappear, a letter will arrive from the SEC to Kunal and he will simply shut down.
How long before the SEC shuts down CliqueFund? This of course is the million dollar question. Truthfully, nobody really knows when an SEC hit is about to take place. However, the louder and more aggressive the marketing of the unregistered broker dealer, the quicker the SEC moves. There are several of these broker dealer/pooled resources trading operations currently in existence and they have been able to remain intact for several years. Why? Because they stay ridiculously small and do not flagrantly advertise all over the internet. In fact, I have spoken to two separate trading groups that are currently pooling together resources and they were kind enough to give me open access on how these operations are set up. Both firms are very concerned with the size and scope of Kunal Desai’s CliqueFund. A good example would be the local pot dealer that grows a few plants in his back yard, and enjoys the bounty amongst a few friends. This type of activity is not going to bring the authorities. However, Kunal appears to be very aggressively and flamboyant about marketing his unregistered broker dealer. How aggressive and flamboyant? Very. So much so, that three separate trading educational firms are now aggressively pushing the scheme.
CliqueFund: BullsOnWallStreet, Fous Alerts, Lincoln List
Clique Fund is less than one year old. In terms of age, its a baby. However, it is currently being very aggresively marketed by not only BullsOnWallStreet, but also FousAlerts and The Lincoln List. Many of you are probably aware of my review of Fous Alerts. Its no secret that I have a high level of disdain for Cameron Fous of Fous Alerts. You can read all about Cameron Fous in the following review. In a nutshell, Cameron Fous is complete and total fraud that claims he makes millions of dollars each year day trading stocks, however no proof can ever be found or provided. To see Fous Alerts aggressively pushing this is a huge red flag. It is also outrageous that he touts this unregistered broker dealer all over his website and YouTube, which of course garners thousands of eyeballs.
The one thing that all three of these organizations have in common is that each of these organizations require that the trader spend about $3,000 in educational costs in order to be admitted into the CliqueFund. The educational costs serve as an entry fee.
What exactly is happening here?
Many readers might be wondering why I am spending so much time talking about CliqueFund, and not the educational product known as BullsOnWallStreet? Let me explain. The average person that purchases the BullsOnWallStreet, FousAlerts, Lincoln List day trading educational product is typically young, naive about financial products, and extremely underfunded. The typical person that gets caught up in these types of schemes is hoping to turn a few thousands dollars into new career as a full time day trader. These trading educators have tailored their educational products to specifically target this demographic by offering a supposed complete solution to become a full time professional day trader.
The average person that falls for the pitch usually has no more than $5k in cash that they are able to scrape together through savings and credit cards. The primrose path of these educators is to entice the naive person into first spending $3,000 on the educational product, and that this educational product is the exact knowledge that they will need to become a full time day trader. In addition, they offer a live day trading room experience that gives the impression that once a person obtains this wonderful secret day trading knowledge, that they will also be able to shadow trade the guru, and by proxy will be able to copy his success. The final piece of the puzzle is the supposition that a $2,500 deposit into Clique Fund, and the leverage to $25,000 is the capital that they will need to make their day trading dreams come true. Unfortunately, their eyes sparkle brightly towards the big round number of $25,000, but in reality they are only allowed to lose $2,000 of their own money.
The shadowy promise of 10-1 leverage is only a mirage of opportunity. It feels like you are getting a lot of money, but in reality you are only getting the ability to lose your $2,000 of your own money extremely fast. There is no possible way to lose beyond the deposit amount.
In its entirety, you can see the synergistic effect of all three components. The first is the secret day trading knowledge that the victim must acquire for $3k, the next is the live trading room that gives the impression that they can simply copy the guru and achieve success, and the third is the promise of massive leverage over a tiny trading account. All three components work together to create a very compelling fantasy.
What is the fantasy?
One thing that you will notice with BullsOnWallStreet and FousAlerts is that both make some bold and outrageous claims. For instance, in the following snippet that was taken from the BullsOnWallStreet website, notice how Kunal boldly claims that, “Over the last ten years I’ve made millions trading stocks.” Pretty bold claim! However, just try and ask for proof of this amazing trading success. I did. However, after several months of asking for proof, none has arrived and I expect none ever will.
Another thing that Kunal does is post supposed monthly profits he earned with his day trading. Some of these are borderline outrageous…and if not provable clearly demonstrate fraud. Why? Because all of these results must be accompanied with a disclaimer that states whether they are simulated or real. The lack of disclosures implies that these are real results. Have a look for yourself…all taken from Archive.Org. Notice the lack of disclosure.
These are just two of the quick snippets of the supposed amazing trading abilities of Kunal Desai. I recommend that readers have a look at Archive.Org and browse through his stated results pages. Amazing stuff folks. Month after month he claims $20k, 30k, 40k, 50k, etc. But where is the proof? Is it really too much to ask if any of this is real? Also, I believe most damning is that I could find absolutely zero losing months. By his own marketing magic, he seems to be the worlds most perfect day trader with no losing months. Heck, if I were making all of this money with amazing ease, then why sell my magic to the masses?
Trader Porn
Of course, these amazing trading results are only part of the pornography that Kunal employs that create the fantasy image of his trading success and fantasy lifestyle. A look at the Bulls On Wall Street facebook page reveals Kunal driving around in convertible sports cars and travelling to exotic locations all over the world. All of this imagery is what I like to call “Trader Porn”. These images are meant to convey a sense of freedom, wealth, and fun. The idea behind these images is to convey that all of this wealth is possible through Kunal, and all you need is a lap top computer. You too can travel all over the world and make millions of dollars day trading and living the “baller” lifestyle. Have a look at some of the images…
[foogallery id=”2279″]
So what exactly are these images? What do they really mean? In a nutshell, these images are a Red Herring. They are nothing more than clever visual distraction that are meant to divert your 
attention away from suspicion. All of these images are pure theater, well scripted image candy. Any rational person would look at this Kunal person and ask the following rational questions…Question #1: Does this Kunal guy trade? And to what degree of success or failure? By learning this, we can evaluate whether his teaching is worthy of time and investment. Question #2: How are his students performing inside of the “CliqueFund”? Are they profitable, are people making money? This is another clue as to whether we should participate. The truth is that I do not really know if Kunal has really made millions of dollars trading, as he claims. He could provide me proof, and the tone and tenor of this review would be quite different. However, he simply refuses to verify his amazing claims of day trading success. So, I am only left with collecting evidence, wherever I can find it. Sometimes evidence pops up in the strangest places.
Conversations with an insider
On the first week of January 2016, I began to receive a string of emails from a random person that said that I really needed to write a review of Bulls On Wall Street. After a few back and forth emails, I was able to establish that the person in question was the former sales manager at Bulls On Wall Street. Apparently, this person (whom prefers to remain anonymous) had quite a story to tell. The following is the email that I received from the insider on January 8th, 2016.
I would prefer everything that I tell you to remain anonymous. Obviously I need a motive for coming to you, right? Basically, it is this. I used to work for them (Bulls On Wall Street) after being a student of theirs and got left high and dry. Kunal has no regards for his “employees”, much less his students. I can tell you how the bootcamp works, their costs, how to pay virtually nothing for it, the setup, and who Kunal really is as a person. I can tell you that he doesn’t have one successful student out there floating around and that Maribeth doesn’t even trade anymore for 2 reasons: she is too busy trying to hustle in students for the bootcamp and chatroom and she can’t trade profitably anymore.
You want to now how profitable Kunal really is trading? I can fill you in on everything from his fake trades to his so-called screenshare not being real-time. I also know the ins and outs on Clique and that it is set up illegally, acting as a hedge fund when it should really be setup as a prop firm and that I never saw one profitable trader in that fund.What is your motive behind all of this? I can give you tons of details to write probably one of the best reviews you have but I’m just curious. Also, you have made a name for yourself within the trading community and Bulls was scared of what you would find out if you kept prying. Are you here to just write reviews to help the trading community? Is there any money for you in it? Trust me, I’m not looking for anything on you…just want to know how to go about it!
After I received this email, I was quite intrigued and certainly needed to authenticate that the identity of this person before I published or spoke with this person further. My next step was to contact a former subscriber as well as cleverly speak with the current sales manager at BullsOnWallStreet to authenticate that this person was the real deal. After I was able to pin down the identity of the person, I next initiated a telephone call to the former sales manager. What he told me was very interesting.
Telephone call from the insider
On January 9th, 2015 I recorded a telephone call that lasted approximately 30 minutes in length. The person in question described themselves as an employee of nearly 2 years of Kunal Desai. He had recently left the company and needed to talk. My first question was why? And why now? The person described their journey as beginning like any other student, with so much hope of becoming a full time professional day trader. He placed all of his trust and faith in Kunal and truly believed that he was a good person. Eventually, at some point in 2014, Kunal offered him a job selling mentorship packages to the approximately 200 leads that were coming in monthly.
At first, he enjoyed the money. But after awhile it became apparent that nobody was making any money from trading (including the instructors), rather all of the monies were from selling trading mentorship packages to the general public. The sole and entire focus of the organization is to paint this fantasy of how much a person can make, and then ultimitely pitch the $3,000 educational package. The vast majority of these people were total newbies and have no idea what they are getting themselves into. Selling this fantasy was too easy.
Eventually, at some point he began to really question what he was doing. That nagging drumbeat of his conscious began to grow louder and louder. When we are young and just trying to survive, its easy to put aside the goodness that all humans innately carry. We sacrifice it in the name of survival. But as we grow older, we learn that the nagging conscious is warning us of the uglyness that is slowly consuming our soul. This is exactly what happened to this young person. At some point, the money was just not worth it anylonger. How many lies can a person tell, day after day, and continue to function? I certainly know how he feels. I took the ugly path for many years, all in the name of money. Always trying to pile on more money, in hopes that it would fill the growing black hole that was my soul.
For this young person, the final straw that threw him over the edge was when he got to see exactly what Kunal was earning from his supposed amazing day trading abilities…for 2015 he could only verify that Kunal had earned only a very paltry sum from his trading. He was shocked. At that point, he knew it was over. He could no longer sell the lie and live with himself.
Coming clean is painful
The insider that helped me craft this review, it took a tremendous amount of courage for this person to come forward. Some of the readers might be tempted to lash out and say that this person is no better than Kunal Desai. For he did sell the product for nearly two years, and surely a tremendous amount of people got taken in. Some readers might also be thinking that this is just a disgruntled ex employee with an ax to grind. I am sure that there is a small amount of truth at every angle of the argument. However, my message to this person that came clean is very simple…you are a decent human being. You have probably saved countless others from falling into the fantasy trap that Kunal is so adept at constructing. And you probably feel like I might of said too much about what we talked about over the telephone. However, what you said was your truth, and it needed to be told. It took a lot of courage and I am sure that the trading community appreciates what you have done.
Wrapping Things Up
I am sure that there are going to be a tremendous amount of people that are going to feel betrayed by BullsOnWallStreet. And there are also going to be quite a few people that are going to feel that their trading guru, Kenal Desai has been wronged by this review. However, I believe that overall, now that all of the evidence has been weighed and the former sales manager came forth to tell the inside story…the evidence clearly points toward BullsOnWallStreet being yet another scam operation. An operation where the guru himself, which has claimed to make millions of dollars day trading, simply cannot prove his claims of million dollar trading profits. Furthermore, his disdain for existing securities laws, however unpopular gives a sense into his character. For if he is willing to flagrantly circumvent US securities regulations, then he is probably willing to also take advantage of the people that have placed their hopes and dreams in his trading program.
That’s it for today. Thanks for reading this review, it was a long one. And please leave your comments below. Even the haters and trolls will find that their voices will be heard.
Thanks Emmett, I’ll say so much until matters get official
Stay away from this outfit. I’m a a former Paul Singh student, did his mentoring twice thinking I was sucking. He teaches basics in swing trading (everything you can get free from BOWS). He teaches day trading, a system which wildly sucks. But does it suck? He will go over your trades and contradict whatever he has said about your execution from a session prior making you feel bad. Then throw you a bone saying you have potential. This will go back and forth until he cancels sessions in the hope you’d give it up and get on with life. He’s had over a hundred students (mentors) I’ve seen the screenshot, so clearly it’s how he now makes his dollars. Listen to podcasts on scams, and then you’ll easily be able to link the behaviours. I have proof of all correspondence.
Thanks for the comment.
As I discovered, 99.9% of the characters offering “trading education” either (1) Don’t Trade, or (2) Don’t Make Money At Trading.
Sadly, so many people get sucked into this nonsense. Specifically, the worst is day trading.
Of course, many will say, “But what about Ross Cameron at Warrior Trading, he is successful at day trading.” While its true he is successful at day trading, it is at the expense of the people who trust him. He pumps stocks to his students. He gets rich, and they get poor.
Long term investing works. Buying great companies and simply forgetting that you own the stock is the greatest recipe to make consistent money. See: https://www.businessinsider.com/cost-of-missing-10-best-days-in-sp-500-2014-3?international=true&r=US&IR=T
Also see this great article on Peter Lynch…https://investinganswers.com/articles/51-peter-lynch-quotes-empower-your-investing
Pics videos of proof works/worked with Ragingbull who was charged by the FTC and has $137 m in assets frozen and hacking my accounts as Google Service Provider and Google Scholars , Comcast and Norton lifelock noc manager Josh mudryk is founder of AMG Solutions a Google Service Provider and director of Tradersync a trading journal platform
I have proof of them being connected with servers to brokers and who they really are , google service provider and google scholar that works with tdameritrade Canada and few others
I don’t agree, I’ve taken the Bulls on Wall Street Bootcamp and I’ve also been in the chat room daily for over 8 months now and I’ve been averaging over $1000.00 usd per week. If you follow anyone’s trades 100% you’re nothing but a sheep IMHO. That’s why I’m continually educations myself on trading. But I can say that Kunal’s trades are hard to follow because he’s fast and furious (in & out). if you try to follow him without placing stop losses of course you’re going to get burnt. It sounds to me like you’re sour grapes or else couldn’t keep up. If you want to be successful at ‘day-trading’ you had better first learn about setting stops and reading charts correctly. Watch the price action, the volume and always go with the trend making sure the daily charts align with the intraday charts.
https://www.glassdoor.com/Overview/Working-at-Bulls-on-Wall-Street-EI_IE3079274.11,31.htm
Bulls on fraud street
Kunal Desai is being investigated by the SEC!! His clique fund has been shut down abruptly and won’t return any traders money. He claims his broker left them in the middle. I don’t care! It’s not my problem!! Return us our money!! I’ve watched him in the chat room, his trading sucks. If you follow his trades to the tee, you will lose money. His trader Szaman is the one who calls out solid trades and Paul’s trades are good. His employees are pretty rude. His star protege Maribeth has quit due to differences with him. His other employee outed him and kunal sued him. There are plenty of other stock trading gurus to choose from. Avoid!!
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why don’t you put a review on trust pilot
Bulls on fraud street
Kunal Desai is being investigated by the SEC. His clique fund has been shut down abruptly and won’t return any traders money. He claims his broker left them in the middle. I don’t care! It’s not my problem!! Return us our money!! I’ve watched him in the chat room, his trading sucks. If you follow his trades to the tee, you will lose money. His trader Szaman is the one who calls out solid trades. His employees are pretty rude. His star protege Maribeth has quit due to differences with him. His other employee outed him and kunal sued him. There are plenty of other stock trading gurus to choose from. Avoid!!
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Ok, so hold on a minute…you are saying that Clique Fund is NOT returning client funds? How did you get this information?
Are you a customer? Can you find any other persons that were affected? I need to write about this. But I need all the facts and information.
I did a 2 year investigation on this company with a unnamed govt agency. I finally got permission from my supervisors to put this final review up. (they deleted my acct from there database but i will set up a blog with the screencasts of my credit card bills from this company) First let me start out by saying it’s not illegal what he’s done except for one thing that i will clarify at the end. If a customer is willing to buy a item like the bootcamp that they can get for free by just using a few google searches and spend $3000 on it it’s their own stupidity. There’s been over 40 bootcamps with over 50 students in each. Where are all the students singing praise on Kunal, his first student Maribeth shut down her trading career after a year because the system isn’t profitable. THEY SCAM THE TRUST PILOT SYSTEM AND PUT UP ALL THESE GLOWING REVIEWS. How you ask? They sign up for service under a false name, that generates a trustpilot survey. Kunal has no verifiable trades. He paper trades on his live screen share chatroom. Now here’s the illegal, They had a service called Clique Fund which allowed students to join and access “supposedly” Kunal capital to trade with.You would pay them $2500 for a $2000 trading account (yes the greed in this man took 20% off the top that you were aware of) and $300 per month for a poor platform. BUT WHAT YOU ARE UNAWARE OF your orders weren’t being executed at any exchange. It was a ponzi scheme, they would keep all the sign up money It’s basically free money to them because you couldn’t take out anything unless they were profits and they preyed on new traders because their chance of having profit was .000001%. How do i know this? We followed the executions. You got hand it to this guy, he registered all his credit card transactions at his parents address, so all his credit card transaction crimes would be on his parents. If you want to inquire about getting your money back from this guy you can contact me at a gmail acct jno712 (you know the rest). This is directly at you Kunal if you delete this, it doesn’t matter because we came to terms with Google to get the 1st search result for BOWS reviews when our blog goes live. FOR ALL YOU PEOPLE GUYS LIKE THIS IS WHY THEY HAVEN’T DENACTED THE PDT RULE.
Justin, you can always reach me at emmett@tradingschools.org. If you have any private information or anything you feel that is relevant, regarding Bulls On Wall Street or Clique Fund, you should send it over. I would love to write another piece.
Regarding Trust Pilot…oh YES, its a scam of a review website. I wrote a summary of how the scam works at https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/trust-pilot-the-mecca-of-fraudulent-trading-reviews/
So glad I read this before sending my money $19.95,,,yes that is what it got down to and no course for that amount of money is worth the paper its written on. To be frank I have been trading for years and 99% of people out there are great scam artists and they feed on your wanting to be financially free of the 9-5 grind. Larry Williams is real trader so check him out. As for this con artist, seasoned traders can suss him out very quickly and he should change the firm’s name to Bullshit on Wall Street!!!
They offered you the course for $19.95? wow
All,
I have done quite a few of these courses, training, chat and I can tell you that BOW in my humble view is not fake but then again is it a good service?. 1. Kunal does make possibly 98%+ of his money selling educational services. 2. Are they value for money depends on the student and their level, expectations, willingness to learn and natural ability. 3. Like Tim Sykes, he likes to sell you the dream, tells people that his mission is to help others. This does not make him a bad person, just a businessman. Maybe unethical to push it too far but sometimes some people think legal is moral 4. Does he prey on the naive, possibly, but there are some complete outright fraudsters out there. 5. He wont show his track record, probably because he is now focused on selling subscriptions and services and trading itself takes a backseat. He possibly was not that great a trader but unless he shows his audited accounts who knows 6. Traders become educators because they see more money in it and possibly some educators do want to help people. I caveat that with probably the vast majority just want to make money without the risk and also front run. Many trading chatrooms know their followers/subscribers will just follow their alerts giving them a huge trading edge.
If you want to do well in trading, you need to educate yourself, get the experience in the market (screentime), find the right strategy for yourself-not just take someone else’s strategy as you will have different account sizes, personality, physchology and strengths and weaknesses and persist.
By the way I like this review as investimonial’s one is one sided and this is one sided in the other direction, you can get both sides of the story and make up your own mind.
BOW is not fake but uses clever marketing to get you to buy their services. You can learn to be a good trader from its teachings but with 90% of traders failing the odds are against you. BOW might swing it a few percentage points in your favor but don’t blame them if you don’t become an overnight success.
Rob
Thanks for commenting. I love it when educators show actual results. It is pretty much the only way to judge whether a product, will at least stand a chance of delivering positive results.
Emmet sensors reviews and comments. I am a profitable bulls on wallstreet student. I learned everything from them. No idea where Emmit gos his info but it is 100% wrong. I put that on my life and my families lives
No censoring here. Sorry your comment did immediately pop up. I have to approve the initial comment. You can now commence hollering at me. Actually, I enjoy the critique.
Hey, thanks for commenting. I read your thoughts, and you have a few. And nobody is happier about you finding success than me. That’s the truth. Hope to read more of your comments in the future.
-Emmett
Looking forward to seeing your verified track record of trading profitably Boy Plunger.
I actually take kunals bootcamp. It took me from knowing nothing to now getting results. These guys are the real deal, unless my results im getting are also fake….
Bunch of losers! Fuck all y’all.
Hi Kunal,
I love you too.
Emmett
Nice dummy spit Kunal.
Here’s the true Kunal, the POS he is. His mom is so proud of him, if she only knew how her home was being paid for!! Sorry kunal dog we are busted
People need to realize a majority of the money made via Clique fund is from the data fees, which are absurd. 11 dollars a day (7 days a week). You can get cheaper per share trading at other brokers. The only advantage is the allure of getting additional leverage.
Also, if you want to take a break from trading, there is a 37 dollar a week “inactivity fee.” Consider yourselves warned.
I’m just surprised how stupid people are. And I’m referring to the comments above. I’m not affiliated with any of these guys, but Tim Sykes was the reason I got into the game and after penny stocking didn’t work out – even though it’s possible to make it work, but it’s not for me – I stumbled upon these guys. I don’t know why do you even pay for their boot camp, if 99% of the information what they are offering are free on youtube from their live videos and tutorials. That should be more than enough to be profitable. But most people are morons and don’t know what is hard work. They think trading is a brainless job and anybody can do it. Well in that case the comment writer must be retarded, since he/she can’t make money. Sometimes it seems you guys just don’t have what it takes. Like Tim, Kunal and the others, I also worked 14-16 hours 7 days a week for months in a different field, you just get though and get a good work ethic. Doing stocks after that is a piece of cake. But I feel most of you would newer make that sacrifice, instead crying that they sold you something that didn’t make you rich. Even though they SAY it might take months, even years to get profitable and it’s not a get rich quick scheme, it’s a profession. I feel sorry for some of you to be that dumb that you honestly thought that you going to watch a tutorial dvd and next thing you know you are driving a lambo. I really hope nobody will ever attempt to sell you a brain surgeon dvd and 2 months later you are cutting open your grandparents, because it pays a million a year. It’s that ridiculous.
It’s possible to make a living sole from trading, 10% of traders do that, the other 90% rotates out. Please, keep feeding us and keep being a sheep! Have a great day 🙂
This is the most comprehensive knock-down I have ever read of the BOWS service and ‘hedge fund’. Kudos to you for posting it, I hope at least a few people find this before giving their money to them.
As a former bootcamp student, I’d like to share a few of my personal experiences and insights with you.
Firstly, the education you receive through the bootcamp is actually quite good. It DOES teach you a lot about trading patterns, the day trading world, and the stock market in general. That said, it is significantly overpriced. If you know where to look, you can give yourself the same education for about 1/10th the cost (for example by watching free videos on Youtube, buying some books and videos from traderslibrary.com, and other methods). The bootcamp in and of itself is not a scam per se, as there’s really no crime in charging people an inflated price for aggregating and repackaging information they’re too lazy to seek out on their own (this is the model that universities thrive on). However, keep in mind that with trading (unlike some other professions), knowledge his a necessary but not sufficient condition for success — if you don’t have the right psychology for trading you can easily lose even if you know what to do. And, for someone with a comparatively small amount of capital, this is the most probably outcome.
The real shady side of all of this, as you’ve pointed out, comes from the ‘hedge fund’, as well as the psychology used to market all of his products (chatroom, bootcamp, hedge fund, other services). You’re absolutely right, it is aimed at naive underfunded newbies who don’t know better. And it seems to have worked exceptionally well for him. But there are a number of reasons I (now) see that explain why it probably won’t work for most of the students:
1) Kunal claims to be a professional day trader. The first question you should have in your mind the anyone claims to be a professional anything is this: “So that means you earn your primary source of income from doing that thing, right?”. With Kunal, the answer is a resounding NO. He is a professional stock market education service provider (and, I would argue, a pipe dream seller too). A while back he posted a Youtube video where he bragged his company had brought in $3M that year from his services. In other words, that is how he makes his ‘real’ money. He could therefore afford to lose money on the stock market every single month and still be ‘profitable’. The same is true for precisely ZERO of the students.
2) As for the hedge fund, questions of its legitimacy aside, people need to realize the fees it charges are ABSURD by industry standards. And by the way it’s set up, there is actually ZERO risk for Kunal and BOWS – once you quickly lose the money you’ve put in, you’re locked out and continue to get charged fees. Additionally, the money you put in is really there so that it can be leveraged by Kunal himself to continue his trading. So again, even if he lost money every month by trading, he would still make money on it because of the fees he collects, and the bait towards paying for other BOWS products. The entirety of the risk is shouldered by YOU, the poor plebe.
3) OK, but surely you can sign up for the chat room and make money copying his trades right? Actually, the answer is more than likely NO, for a few reasons. Firstly, most of the trades require a level of buying power you DON’T have, so even if you make more winning trades than not, you may very well still only break even or even lose money after fees are taken into consideration (whether you trade with them or another broker). Also, keep in mind that by following another trader, what you are actually doing is allowing him to ‘front run’ his trades. That is, he takes an entry, then reports it to his room, then has people follow into that trade. Your chances of making money on his trades therefore, while certainly not non-existent, are definitely FAR less than his are.
4) The ‘mentorship’ aspect of the education he provides is virtually non-existent. Yes, you may get ‘some’ personal feedback if you literally harass the shit out of him or someone else at the firm, but if you think you’re signing up to be taken under some millionaire’s magical wing, you are going to be sadly disappointed.
In thinking about my experiences with BOWS (taking the bootcamp, entering the hedge fund, getting booted by the hedge fund (due to roughly $1000 in losses I took plus roughly the same in fees I was charged), I have very mixed emotions. I did learn quite a bit. And I do still think that, at least at some point in the past, his intentions were actually good, i.e. to help people learn to trade and make money (and of course to make a living for himself doing so, which in and of itself is not wrong). But somewhere along the way, he realized it was far more profitable to sell this ‘trader porn’ to people and to collect their money hand over fist. He has become just as bad as Tim Sykes, if not worse. The hedge fund is an absolute pit of despair for anyone other than him. I honestly hope the SEC shuts him down and prevent him from fleecing more naive, unsuspecting aspirants.
This was a very informative post. He is selling everyone the dream and he knows very well that it is a pipe dream, especially for vastly under funded traders. He can trade live recklessly and average down without worrying about the losses because of his other rackets keeping him in the green. That hedge fund is a regulators nightmare. Nothing about that fund is legit. I am surprised the regulators haven’t shut it down yet and whisked everyone off to federal prison. The fees alone he is charging so that a trader can risk their own capital is a joke. Why would anyone consider paying those exorbitant fees? It’s insane. He knows that no one will succeed and that basically that money once deposited is going into his account. It is a blatant fraud.
Wrong
Why are Mike M’s statements and claims wrong Boy Plunger? He’s provided as much proof as you and Kunal have provided to support yours.
Thank you for sharing this personal experience of the bows services. The educational part is put in a better light, but ultimately it’s no better than the usual snakeoil and very low bar since one could find much of the educational material elsewhere from far cheaper or free resources. From what you’ve described it does sound like a new empire of sham and very similar to Sykes modus and perhaps still outpacing the fleecing profits of Ross’ Warrior Trading although I don’t doubt his shamroom and site are churning at least a million in profits per year now. Was there any evidence of other students who had “great” success after the bootcamp? Was there a verifiable and truthful reporting of the fund’s performance in any way? It sounds like it has reached “prosham” status as one of the best retail churning organizations out there and agreed it would now only be stopped if handcuffed away from their simshow pc’s for good by some nation authorities.
Hi!
A few responses:
1) “one could find much of the educational material elsewhere from far cheaper or free resources”.
Yes, absolutely. If you knew where to look, I would estimate you could give yourself a similar education to their $3000 bootcamp for under $500. Possibly even free. They bank on the fact that people getting into this don’t know where to look or are afraid to do it themselves.
2) “it does sound like a new empire of sham and very similar to Sykes modus”
When I first got involved in BOWS, one of the things I liked about it was that Kunal seemed to be the antithesis of Sykes. As time has gone on, he’s become more and more like him, offering new, pricey, pointless services and hype, filling your email with spam, to the point they’re now pretty much indistinguishable.
3) Was there any evidence of other students who had “great” success after the bootcamp? Was there a verifiable and truthful reporting of the fund’s performance in any way?
When I first started trading after the bootcamp I had great success. Then market conditions changed, and I lost all my gains (and then some). This type of course teaches you enough to be really dangerous to yourself. You may win for a while, but you don’t really have an understanding of market dynamics, which takes years to gain.
As far as I am aware, there is NO verified reporting of the fund’s profitability. I’m sure some bootcamp students have moderate degrees of success (as I initially did), but there is no evidence that any of them were able to transition in to full time independent traders, at least that I’ve seen.
Bragging about $3M in revenue. What a douche. I heard Jason Bond do similarly a few years ago at $2M/yr. The ludicrous part is that they take pride in how savvy they think they are as marketing and sales geniuses. Jason Bond is about as smart as a monkey wrench and a genius in no capacity whatsoever. Kunal is a driveling, ADHD, bull-shit artist who relies on his preprogrammed high energy, presentation style to carry on some remote semblance of intelligent, useful information.
Maybe you should have put in more effort. I to took the bootcamp. I knew absolutley nothing before I took it and now I am a consistently profitable trader. The_boy_plunger on IG. Emmit should honestly be ashamed of himself as a human being for trying to hurt another mans living. This is as real as it gets but you have to put in the effort. Kunal teaches but you have to get experience and practice what he teaches. No different from doctors, lawyers etc
“No different from doctors, lawyers etc” except that a doctors and lawyers have to study approved courses, pass exams and demonstrate competence to other highly trained and competent doctors and lawyers before they are allowed to practice on real people. Kunal didn’t have to do any of that before he called himself a professional trader and started his business. The Boy Plunger, please send your verified trading statements to Emmett or put them in Dropbox. Without at least that amount of proof your claims mean nothing.
Kunal if your going to post a fake review please don’t use the doctor/lawyer bit that you use in your bootcamp.
Any thoughts on Paul Singh. He is the swing trading guy for Bulls on Wall Street?
I’m a past student of Bullsonwallstreet. I’ve taken the courses many times and even traded in their CliqueFund twice with no success. After spending about $17,500 between education and trading, I’ve decided that daytrading is not for me. Daytrading took tremendous amout of discipline, and attention span which I didn’t have. Believe me, it was very boring most of the time just sitting there waiting for the next setup. Like they say 90% of daytraders fail, I believe it’s true even with proper education.
I do think the course is good and worth it if daytrading is what you really want to do. But just be forewarned that it is much, much, much harder than you can ever imagine. They do allow you to retake the course as many times as you want for free.
Kunal is a success story but I believe he made most of the money from selling his training course and hedgefund. He also uses Maribeth as a marketing tool to convince people that anybody can be successful at daytrading because she did it in a very short period of time. She is, however, an employee for Bullsonwallstreet and getting paid between $250k and $500k a year to sell the product. It took Sayed Zaman over 20 years to become a successful daytrader.
All BOWS employees are very well paid. They don’t depend on daytrading to make a living.
FWIW, just do a real honest self analysis before spending the money.
Thanks for sharing your experience but my take on the course would be different. You sound like you were conscientious and dedicated to becoming profitable as a day trader and if you weren’t able to succeed how useful can the course be? In my opinion not very useful at all especially as no one at BOWS is depending on day trading for their living.
Daytrading is a lot like golf which is 70 to 90% mental. You can have the best technique but it doesn’t mean you will be able to handle the pressure of tournaments.
I don’t blame BOWS for my failure. It was totally my fault to not able to bridge the mental gap.
To be honest, I do wish sometimes that Kunal wasn’t the moderator of the chatroom. He would routinely set very bad examples by taking gamble trades and blew out his daily limit within the first hour. Sayed Zaman and Maribeth would’ve been better moderators, especially for newbies.
Do you know that for sure? She tweets like she is still trading. lol
Somebody’s Jelly.
I don’t know who Emmett Moore is and I don’t really care.
A REAL member of the BOWS member here to give you a little insight into what is really going on.
I happened to find this review because instead of typing in the website to the search bar tonight, I entered it into google and saw this ridiculous review.
I signed up for BOWS last May in order to learn about trading. I knew nothing about trading before hand.
I am a firm believer that Time is money, and the information and resources I have acquired and still continue to aquire for $2500 is nothing compared to the time and money I would have lost and spent trying to learn everything I know about trading since I have been with the group.
I’m not going to go into details and argue about this with Emmet because he has absolutely no idea what he is talking about in this review. Sign up for the course and Kunal will let you stay with him at his house and watch him trade and teach you one on one, no joke.
No one is forced to join the Clique fund. I am definitely not a part of it and never plan to be, although the commissions are pretty low. I’ve made my own capitol and have no reason to join, It is beneficial for people with very low capitol to join though because they give you buying power based on how successful you are at your trading. This helps them not lose and helps the individual trader learn a very important strategy in trading.
The community is awesome as there is an innate about of people willing to help each other and give each other advice, this alone to me is priceless due to the amount of resources and info it provides alone.
When my girlfriend went to college, she paid almost 20k for Baking in Houston at the Art Institute of Houston. For BAKING I tell you, where she will not make but a small percentage of what a successful trader makes. At BOWS I can take the course over and over again, and have, and they are always making it better and better.
I started In May of 2015, a high school dropout with no knowledge of trading and no more than traders who have been trading for years. Like I said before, I don’t know who Emmet Moore Is but the guy is lost. I had to say something because I promise you, whoever is reading this review, Emmet Moore’s advice is hurting you instead of helping you because the payment for this course is the best money I’ve ever spent in my life, on anything.
As far as putting in work. Trading is a career and as with any career, the individual has to put in the work. Trading doesn’t come easy. You’re not going to take a class and become an all-star overnight. Do you think Muhammad Ali won the title after a 2 month training program? Hell no. Did you land a job in the top ranks of a company with only 2 months of education? NO.
Trading isn’t for everyone just as Baking isn’t for everyone. There’s always people who drop out and there’s always the ones who don’t want to put in the work, this is true in any field. We write journals and record trades to be grading to help us. It is only a burden to those who are lazy, plain and simple.
Real review, real student. I could care less if anyone signs up, but I couldn’t stand reading such a false review on something that has opened up a door of endless possibilities for me.
Cheers
The reviews written by Ron and Mike lamay must have been written by the same high school dropout. Ron, Mike has Kunal shown you his brokerage statements? At least you can stay with Kunal for your $2,500. Hey, if you pay a little extra maybe he’ll let you spoon.
Exactly. Sounds more like a compatriot or hireling who was a hs dropout who ended up losing whatever capital he had before joining up with this bullshit scam school. Emmett clearly lays out how fake the hustling is. It’s no different than many other sites reviewed here. If they were making 30 to 40k a month, they sure wouldn’t need to push sales of initial 2.5k pos material to keep up their monthly churn.
I am a highschool dropout. This is the reason you will never find susccess. Your skepticism will hold you back forever
No. This review was written by me. Ron Artzberger, a random average guy that took the course, put in the work and came out on top because I didnt give up
I dont need his statements. I learned everything from them and now im consistent because i kept trading during my losing periods. Kept pushing, ignored the pain and stayed disciplined, and continued making progress. Have fun living the broke life. The reason most traders dont make it is because they simply…. give up
You may not need Kunal’s statements but for your claims to be taken seriously by the readers of this blog we will need to see your statements.
I’m a student, kunal is a great trader and his resultan ARE priven All the time. This review is a joke to just get this website more clicks.
Nice review KUNAL!! YOUR A PIECE OF SHIT
I think a good general rule of thumb is to avoid paid chats unless they can prove profitability whether its a P&L statement or otherwise. Twitter, Profitly, chats, or any of the like doesn’t count. These guys, no matter how nice, are business men. The recipe: Build you subscriber base by eliciting emotional appeal (good life), Sell products and Subscriptions, rinse and repeat. They don’t make money trading, period. I would argue that some of them probably never did. What they do is teetering inside an ethical grey zone, but to be fair, they did identify an untapped market in the training industry. Selling trading educational services at a huge premium is disgusting but, people are willing to pay that price with the hope that they’ll receive “an insiders perspective to master the market” and easily generate returns. Instagram pics demonstrating the “good life” tends to attract the demographic that their selling their products and services to. Investorslive, Bulls on Wallstreet, and TimothySykes all have perfected the recipe. What I can not believe is that people pay one of the aforementioned services $5000 to be a part of their challenge. I mean holy smokes, who pays a $5000 participation fee to trade their own capital? Again, that’s a shady move but Kudos for pulling that off. I’m surprised there haven’t been any repercussions.
Still no response/proof from Kunal???
SMFH!!!!!!!!!!!!! fcking pos scam!!!!!!
Thank you. You clear my mind and save me money. I saw their videos on youtube. I was skeptical because they all sound alike (Tim sykes, Kunal, investor underground, Nathan michaud, tim grittani, Goode, etc). They use the get rich quick and easy slogan to fool poeple.
Sure got guys like Tim Sykes who think they are market genius. Run a hedge fund, lose money over few years and then close down short hedge fund in 2007 right before huge market collapse lol Then after failing as trader all the sudden he is trading teacher making countless millions a year. Got to give guy credit though he is a great marketer. Many others I suspect are same way. IU is legit though. Have known Nathan from investorshub well over decade back. Msg boards were slow getting info out and he had an idea to get a few good traders join up on yahoo messenger. Having a room with experienced traders has a lot of value. He grew from that to teaching others. Was an amazing trader a decade ago and even more so now. Think his track record speaks for itself and not only does he alert his trades live he posts his watch list and plan to trade night before.
Well, time to chime in, I guess. Took the course and traded with Clique and I hope that I can provide a neutral review on the BOWS group.
First of all, Kunal is pretty special, but he’s always been very helpful, as well as the entire crew. When ever there was a problem or I had questions, they were very keen on providing instant support.
Their strategy is not for every one, it also wasn’t for me. The biggest take away for me was Kunals emphasise on “you most work on the stuff that works for YOU!”
In addition, he teaches a very structured approach to trading. That means, trade, journal, review, trade, journal, review and so on as opposed to teaching just a method.
is it worth to pay 2500$ in order to learn, that you have to journal and review your work in addition to building your own strategy? Absolutely not, but I guess I had to pay the price.
Clique fund, however, is a different animal. Software fees are 350$/month and compared to professional tools like Sterling, Lightspeed and the likes (that cost 130$ – 180$/month) it’s really, really crappy. In addition – and this is the key point every short term trader has to understand – you don’t have direct market access, but trade against an internalizer.
That means:
– forget about the 0.0027ct/share commission. Add the ECN fees and you trade for 1$/100 shares round turn, which equals the rate you can get with every retail broker.
– internalizer is frontrunning your limit orders, which hurts especially mid – day/in illiquid stocks
– no pre-/post market trading
This in itself might be ok, but it’s not ok, if you sell it as top of the crops professional setup. In addition, I think it’s a joke to use Haim Bodek as a figure head and offer your students a setup, that either leans on, sells or trades against students orderflow, cause it condradicts exactly the stuff Haim is harping on.
I’m also a little pissed about the fact, that you can’t refund your deposit. It’s basically make it or blow up. The horrendous monthly fee heavily tilt the probabilities towards the later.
In addition, I’m not quite sure about Kunals trading in his live show. He shorted stocks, I wasn’t able to get borrows for, so while I wouldn’t say he’s papertrading, he’s probably a different setup.
Conclusion: Did I make money in Clique? No, I didn’t. I scalp and Clique is definitely the work place for that. Too expensive, no ECN rebates and the platform is crap.
Did the bootcamp help me to become profitable? Yes, it did.
It just took me a lot of grunt work and screentime to get to break even and twice as much grunt work and screentime to become green. As I said, trade, journal, review, and so on. The community is great and there are a couple of profitable guys in there you can bounce ideas off of.
Is it worth 2500$? For somebody already sporting the work ethic required for successful trading, it’s not. For me it was, since it was a kick in the butt for me.
So think twice about the bootcamp, you won’t learn anything new.
But don’t even dare to think about Clique. It’s just a bad deal.
P.S.: I’m always super carefull about calling someone a scam. It could be, that Kunal tries hard, but just fails again and again. Could be, that we are all wrong and they are legit and Kunal is just a bad teacher. As far as I’m concerned, I did not feel like I was ripped off on purpose, It was rather like i paid 500$/hour for a golf trainer, who THINKS he is good, but in reality he isn’t…if you know what I mean.
Thanks for helping out with this review. I really appreciate that you took your time and explained your experiences.
Emmett,
You seem like a cool guy but I have been working with Kunal for a while now and he is pretty cool also and his trades are live. I think in the spirit of being cool you should remove this story. Your call.
I have no problem with Kunal. If he wants me to write a review about his 2015 performance, and if he can find one or two traders within his “hedge fund” then I would be more than happy to write a happy, glowing review.
I approached him 8 months ago, but he ignored me.
Kunal can be as cool as he wants too be, and trade live, but he does not show verified results, and no proof of a single successful trading student with verified results, so you tell us should we trust what they are selling us at bulls on wall st? Your call.
Hi Jim,
In my opinion, its important to show a clear path for a positive review. I am not looking to destroy these vendors, am trying to coax them into being more transparent about themselves and the hard realities of the trading game. Hey, if Kunal can show me positive results, and a real student with verifiable positive results, then I will be the first guy to write a new review and upgrade the original review. Hopefully he can! Give the guy a chance to improve.
I swore that I was not going to get down in the mud with you over your review, but it is just blatantly unfair. Let’s take a look at it:
Honesty: 1 star
Quality: 1 Star
Cost: 1 Star
Support: 1 Star
Verified Trades: 1 Star
User Experience: 1 Star
I am going to lump Honesty and Verified Trades together here as, according to you, you have a source that claims that Kunal and crew are not honest, right? Based on the fact that trades are not verified? In fact your un-named sources for the majority of your claims are just as un-verified. What makes it even worse is that parts of the statements are easily proven fraudulent. You should put the same transparency standards on yourself. Did you even attempt to reach out to BOWS?
Quality. Giving Bulls on Wall Street one star for quality is just plain laughable. I have already stated the quality of the training is exceptional and I am not sure what your expectations would be to give BOWS even two stars. Do you expect them to make the trades for you?
Cost. While I concede that the tuition is a bit pricy I feel that even here one star is unfair. When you consider the magnitude of training that is offered and add that to the amount of losses saved by attempting to learn trading on your own I would think that even cost should rate three stars.
Support. This is just as laughable at one star, I literally have every cell phone number of every member of the staff, and they take my call, answer my questions, and not that I have ever had any issues that needed resolved, but I bet they would be given a high priority.
User Experience. There are as of my writing 1194 members of the BOWS Google+ group. The most recent course is the 24th. As I said previously it is a vibrant community and I often read posts from some of the members of the original courses. This is important: I have never read a single post from the group from a member that was dis-satisfied with BOWS.
Seriously, your review should be re-evaluated in my opinion.
Alrighty! I got your rebuttal. Much appreciation.
I think Kunal can make some improvement. Hopefully he takes this review and makes some changes.
Steve, no offense, but your review sounds a bit crafted, particularly in your address of the sales manager dispute and zero complaint about clique fund. is this a desperate attempt from maribeth? Either that, or you are WAY TOO generous in spirit. You forked over $2500 for The education? Are you making money? “The dude”, your review sounds much more authentic. Thumbs up.
Well… If anyone is interested in a review from someone who has actually taken the course and traded with Clique Fund then this is the one review that should actually matter.
When I was first looking at Bulls on Wall Street (BOWS) I searched the web for any negative feedback and I could find nothing. This is the first and only negative review I have seen on the web.
This review has bothered me since a friend sent it to me and I feel the record needs to be set straight here. Keep in mind that I am actually a student and I am not an employee or paid surrogate of BOWS. I am a part time trader, soon to be full time retired UPS driver and full time trader.
I have been with Bulls on Wall Street for over a year. In my opinion the course was worth every penny. It is a well-rounded course that teaches set ups, risk/trade management, market cycles, sector analysis, and more. My recollection is that there is about 25 hours of course instruction and there is always about an hour of Q&A after each course. There is a library of course videos from the over twenty different groups of classes that are available on demand, and you have life time access to all of the resources available on the website. The setups that are taught are solid, but more important they are profitable.
After the courses have ended there is about a month of trade reviews where the trades that Kunal called out in chat that day are reviewed. They are the good, the bad and the ugly. If the trade was good or bad it is called out. BY the way, while we are on the subject, the claim that Kunal calls out trades on a delayed screen is absolutely fraudulent. I trade live on two different platforms and I can assure you without a doubt that they are in real time.
There is a Google group with over 1000 students (that actually paid for the course) and I have never seen a single post within the group from anyone that feels they did not get an excellent education, in fact it is an extremely vibrant community of traders that support each other and strive to excel in trading.
As for the mentors.. There has never been one instance in my time at BOWS when a question, a concern or a request has not been answered within a reasonable time and you can trust me when I say that I have sent plenty of requests and questions.
Trading in Clique Fund (CF) may very well circumvent the Pattern Day Trading Rules but in my mind they are unfair to begin with, and since Clique Fund has been in operation for over six years I suspect they will not be shut down any time soon. There is a daily platform fee but it is absolutely worth it when you consider that trade cost are incredibly cheap, executions are lightning fast, and shorts are almost always available. Also worth noting is that the folks at CF are also dedicated to my success. They have risk managers and will set just about any automatic safety nets I request, and I have taken advantage of this twice to date.
Q: If BOWS or CF were fraudulent wouldn’t I constantly get calls looking for me to give them more money?
A: In fact I never get calls from BOWS or CF seeking more money and on more than one occasion from Kunal and Merribeth I was told that I was not ready and to wait before putting money at risk.
Finally let me wrap this up with my concern of this supposed ex-employee. I have it on a very credible source that there is no employee (either employed or previously employed) that meets the description of this supposed ex-employee. (the basis of this entire hit piece)
Actually, I like everything about you have written. Except for the part about the ex employee, that was rock solid and I did my homework on that.
Regardless, it is important to give credit where credit is due. You have had a great experience, and there are probably more person just like yourself. My argument is based upon my particular viewpoint, corroborated evidence from the former sales manager, as well as traders that have not been successful.
Kunal should take this review and use this to improve what he is doing. And be more transparent in his own trading, as well as his students. It would so very easy to discredit my review by rolling out personal account statements of his trading, and his students trading. But of course, these are hard to find. And the complaints are easy to find.
I respect your opinion. And I hope that your trading goes well.
I just noticed “trading guru” Kenai is a refference for a tradingsim. Look at the bottom of their homepage. http://tradingsim.com/
I don’t get it. Why would anyone use a service that doesn’t provide a track record of every alert? There are very good services out there that are rated really well on this site. K Capital Advisors, B12 and Indicator to name a few. They post everything and are making money in the long term for their members. Just read the reviews.
It blows my mind people actually believe the BS like BOWS offer. Mind blowing.
Emmett will you be doing a review on thelincolnlist soon? He seems legit but I’m sure he wont give verified results either
Jim,
Then he’s not legit
I’ve never personally taken Kunal’s class or been in his fund. I do get bored watching the markets often enough, so I do wander through some chats rooms out of amusement. In his chat Kunal does say a lot of trades he is in. I suppose he could be simulator trading, I honestly don’t pay that close attention.
Reading Rob’s comments, it seems you’ve gotten hurt quite a few times. My past was working literally 8 years on my setups. It took a long time. I tend to over think things sometimes myself. I have seen many daytraders that were quite good. Through my former work in taxes I ran into both sides of the spectrum, big winners and a very few big winners. Most winners were like me, and it too them quite awhile to build up and find what works for them as well as getting the psychology down. The big losers often had money, and they were looking for the quick easy fix. I’ve literally traded FX, options, futures, and stocks. I like futures personally for daytrading. I tend to have a little longer on stocks. I recently found what I believe is a great trick for timing options (I am constantly studying and experimenting, but on my own). I will test the options theory. I hate FX. I can make a profit in FX, but it feels like it takes more work and it isn’t worth the time.
Rob, it IS possible to turn a small amount of money into a large amount of money. However, not many people can do it. I’ve turned 10k into 6 figures in a year, but why would I want to do it again. It is way easier to make money with a 7 figure account. It would be a monumental waste of my time to go back and use 10k on anything but testing a theory. There are a couple problems with turning small money into large money. For starters, once you get to bigger money, you certainly don’t want to go back to $10 trading, even if you’re very proud of that accomplishment. I trade to make money, not to dink and dunk the rest of my life. So, people like me that did it, moved on typically. Another problem is it takes a little luck, I got a little lucky here and there. I didn’t get lucky so much picking the right entries as much as a couple of my trades really took off and became very nice winners. You may not need luck, but it certainly helps.
I now have a new strategy to test out on options. I will be using a small account. That is only time I use small accounts is for testing a new idea. However, I’ve seen a number of people lately that are “gurus” saying how they are going back to using small accounts as teaching instruments and show their students they can do it too. That is biggest load of crap around. Seriously, why would I go back to a $50k account and maybe triple it and make a whopping $100k profit for the year. Yippee. I think I’ll stick with my much, much larger account and make 50%. After all, if you use $5 million and make 50%, why would you ever consider $100k profit for the year unless all your money came from subscribers.
One thing about my strategies over time. i’ve had some that would make a huge return on small money in the past. However, they all have their limits. I can slide in and out of all kinds of futures trades with 10k-20k. However, a $1 million dollar account in futures is going to grow much slower percentage gain wise.
Bottom line, 99.9% of the people need to stick to slow and steady. Very, very, very few people will be profitable using a 1m chart. In the end, you need to be able to do slow and steady anyway. I can do the fast charts, but I make less money, so when my accounts got large, I stick to slow and steady. I rarely “daytrade” anymore. I’m still pretty solid at it, but this is a profit game and I make far more money now picking bigger trade ideas where I can build my position and they take awhile to be realized.
Trading is a long, tough path. I lost money for 5 years before I figured out what worked for me. I never bought anyone’s expensive classes to be honest. I then spent 2 years more or less breaking even. Then it clicked and I became profitable the next year. After that, I’ve still grown a great deal as a trader constantly learning new things and testing ideas. No one is going to give anyone the secret. I honestly couldn’t teach you mine. Wouldn’t know how on some things. I could give you the charts and even some rules, but not the thousands of hours I spent agonizing over how to get it to work. Really, I have zero motivation to teach anyone to trade. I can make more money than I need (I’m not that materialistic). I have no interest in spending months and the 100s of hours to answer questions. It could only be taught in person over a long period of time. There is no way I could tell if you’re “getting it” over the internet. What are you going to pay me? 100k? so, what, I can easily make that in a short time and be commitment free.
Now some have called me greedy for keeping it to myself and not spending tons of my life teaching my knowledge. However, I didn’t see any of those people sweating it out for 8 years. They weren’t there literally working a crappy job to pay for heir trading habit (salary had to fund those losing years). They didn’t help me learn to manage my trading psychology. They were there to tell me how impossible it was and how I was wasting my time though. Now, like so many on the internet, they want some packaged easy deal where they don’t go through the suffering. Sorry folks, you want the reward, put in the work. The greediest person is the one that wants it without working for it. Some say a person like Sykes is preying on the small person, but he is also preying on the very greedy. You don’t have to be wealthy to be greedy. I would consider someone buying into a program for $5k thinking they will get Ferraris and Four Season world travel a very greedy person. In what reality does that exhibit any common sense. No one is giving that away for $5k.
DavidR,
Your supposition is correct! On his TR screenshare he does trade on a demo account.
You are one of the very very few people I have come across who seems to be a legitimate and genuine day trader and it was refreshing to go through your post.
I have been learning day trading for 3 years now and finally reached a point where I am breakeven, but it hasn’t clicked for me yet. I am very passionate about day trading but have been unable to find a real life legitimate day trading mentor. I have learned everything on my own from various articles and videos on the internet and after trying various setups with real money and losing thousands of dollars and putting in a lot of long hours and hard work. I tried options in the beginning but lost a lot of money and don’t trade options anymore. Now I focus only on trading stocks and futures. I also happen to hate forex! I have tried almost every setup in day trading but nothing has been profitable for me yet, but in the process I have learned a lot about trading. I have solid money management and discipline and use market internals to determine a strong trend before I enter my day trades.
I have a few questions for you and would be grateful if you can answer them because they have stumped me for a while. They are about day trading E-mini futures.
1. Which time frame is the best for day trading? Is it the 5 minute time frame or the 2 minute time frame or something else?
2. In breakout day trading setup, what is the ideal lowest risk point to enter the trade? Is it as soon as price closes above resistance on heavy volume, or after price closes a certain distance above the resistance determined by volatility at that time, or after a pullback from the breakout? If it is on a pullback is the ideal entry point pullback to 8 EMA or 20 EMA or all the way to support (previous resistance) or after price closes back above the previous bar during a pullback or something else?
After years of testing I suspect it is after a pullback on lighter volume after breakout on heavy volume and not immediately after breakout, but I haven’t been able to figure out exactly at what point after the pullback. Sometimes price pulls back all the way to support (previous resistance), sometimes it pulls back only to 8 EMA or to 21 EMA before bouncing back up.
I place my stop loss 12 ticks below the support (previous resistance) after breakout and exit once bar closes below 2 previous bars for exit or I will aim for the nearest resistance as target exit.
3. Which range/resistance is best for breakout trading? Is it the 5 minute opening range or 15 minute opening range or 20 minute opening range or 30 minute opening range or previous day range?
I will really appreciate if you can help me out and thank you for the input that 1 minute time frame is not the best.
EMMETT,
Thank you for your honest, unbiased and sincere reviews. They have saved me from joining a lot of these scam websites and I am deeply indebted. If you need someone to help you out to do some work feel free to contact me. I have a lot of free time nowadays. Keep up the good work!
1. I honestly don’t think there is a “best” time frame. Everyone works differently. On futures or stocks, I normally use a 2m or a 5m for quicker moves. That doesn’t make them better, it is just what ended up working for me. I tend to use a 15m or 60m chart for options, because I want a solid direction. I go for bigger profits on options and smaller profit targets on futures. Many people need to slow all the way down to the daily. There is no shame in that, and the daily is a good place to trade. I watch a Daily and Weekly for my long term holdings. Most traders coming up seem to think they don’t need to worry about long term. However, when you get successful and are making a lot of money, do you really want to sit money in a CD at near 0%.
2. I don’t use traditional numbers on EMAs or any indicators for an entry. I do have a couple EMAs, but they are numbers I chose for math reasons. I have a re worked indicator. I don’t enter because it does some exact thing. It simply provides me a snapshot fast view of what my EMAs have been doing more or less. I can quickly locate areas of where entries were likely to be be at, and recognize fairly quick where better moves were located as well recognize a potential upcoming move. There is nothing wrong with an indicator. I find most people simply can’t explain to me how the indicator relates to the chart they trade. If you don’t know why the indicator is on your chart or how it relates to your entry, you are probably wasting your time. If you can’t tell me why you use it, it sounds to me like you’re just guessing.
The whole world seems to like 8, 20, 50, etc. I see no edge in using what every broker, trader, etc is expecting. I have the 50 and 200 (since everyone watches them) on my chart, but they are more useful as targets than an entry. I spent a long time coming up with what I use now. I ended up having a reason for every single thing on my chart. That sounded kind of crowded, but there isn’t that much on my chart.
I have also never found it useful to use a specific number of ticks for a stop. I always ended up with bigger losing streaks playing that game. Maybe I just never found the good one, but they didn’t work well for me. I give my trade a little room. I set my stops where I know I’ve lost my direction (I’m likely to change my bias from one direction to the other). Then I adjust my trade size for the level of risk I want to take. I set my risk at a dollar amount and adjust lot size to fit the stop more or less. Stops can be below the previous low (used a lot probably), but often mine are used near one of the two lines on my chart that help with entries. They help, but aren’t some absolute. 90% of the time I look back and see I could’ve had a better entry, but that just never works in real time for me. Mine make money now, and that’s good enough.
3. Honestly, I don’t this. I normally don’t trade the first 15 minutes of the market. I do grab the open once every 7 or 8 days maybe when I very specific look. Half the time, I might not take a trade the first hour. I look at the futures (ES) to decide if I’m trading that day. If volume indicates to me that we should have a good range, I trade. If volume indicates to me things are dead, I normally find something else to do. I’ve been using my rule here for 2 years now, and I’ve probably been right more than 90% of the time on it being a good day. Once I decide to trade, I go for my setups. If they’re withing my rules, I enter. It doesn’t make any difference to me if we haven’t broken some 30 minute range from yesterday or 15 minute range today. Since I normally don’t enter a trade the first 15 minutes, it might make most of that moot. If the market has been moving well and I feel volume indicates it will continue sometime today, I typically go looking for my setups. Sorry, I don’t have some great answer for it. I don’t know how to explain what I do without a 3 hour webinar on this one probably, and you might need 3 or 4 more webinars explaining why and how I use the things on my chart before that one really made sense. Yeah, I’m there for breakouts often enough, and I miss my fair sure too I’m sure. I just can’t think of some short answer at all.
Hope it helps some, but I would really need to think about the 3rd question a lot more to get a better answer after some time seeing how it relates to what I do each day. The answers are all very short. To really get into detail would take forever though.
I agree with most of what you say.
The Trade rooms charge people to take there trades because they need the extra income. if they were raking it in why on earth would they want to share there methods for them to be watered down.
I have found a consistent method that works for me and i wouldn’t share it with anyone.
It looks like this is a nice read, http://bit.ly/20r0Bcq
I love my review. It makes me feel special.
“Should you be approached by this man known as Emmett Moore, or one of his operatives, sever all interactions immediately. Based on past criminal activity this man could be armed and dangerous.”
You gangsta … Emmet 🙂
Hilarious.
I think someone is getting desperate there!
Emmet
If you really are doing extortion on the Scamers of this industry …. i guess i´ll give this one to Rob B and say … THEY DESERVED IT 🙂
A true menace to trading educators everywhere.
I view articles like that will just drive folks to this site so they can see for themselves and unless they are brain dead they can see the truth. Everything mentioned in that article is already known. Anyone reading the GTR thread and go to that room will see everything talked about is true and Dean is part of the scam.
There is one thing mentioned I have been curious about so I will ask Emmett,
“and he proposed hiring cheap labor in a foreign county to sit and watch trade rooms ….”
I know you have some lady from Philippines taking the trades. I spend so much time journaling and etc. sometimes I think it might be cool to hire some from the Philippines. How in the world do you find some trustworthy and honest person to even hire out of the Philippines????
The best and highest quality help can be found through Chris Drucker at VirtualStaffFinder.com. But the cost is higher. Chris charges several hundred dollars for the service.
The next best option, and recommended for newbies would be to use OnlineJobs.ph. You will find plenty of excellent talent, but you will have to put in some work to find the right person.
Finally, the next best option is easyoutsource.com. A great place for finding graphic artists.
Finding the right person took some time. Reyna has been a gem. College educated, speaks excellent english, very smart…and totally dumbfounded about the wacky characters in the trading educational industry.
You can always hire your mother. I’m sure she works cheap and quick.
What happened to the Click Fraud site? http://cliquefundlp.com/
Seems to have been down ever since this review was published..
Hey everyone, first let me be clear that I’m not here to backlash on anyone’s perspectives or defend Kunal or Bulls on Wallstreet due to the fact that I took his course last January, but because I feel like I have enough insight being that I have been on the inside doors of their chatroom as well. I have never made a comment on an article online or anything to my recognition, but this one struck home to me as I would consider myself a middleman to this situation and I am here to hopefully give insight to those who may be misunderstood with Bulls on Wallstreet. Now some of you might immediately think “well he’s a loyal customer no wonder he’s making this comment, but hear my experience out…
2 years ago I came across the idea of day trading, and by who else…? Tim Sykes. Now nothing against the guy, but his marketing pitch almost got me to sign up for his dvds and become timchallenge student until I did more research and found some poor reviews on his products. This got me into a more neutral position as I searched the web to find places where I could learn how to trade. Finally one day I came across Kunals videos on youtube, and they were all free informative trade recaps on his trades that day. After spending a month on forums, watching his videos, reading reviews, I ended up enrolling in their bootcamp. Why did I choose him even though I was against the majority of trading GURUS out their to take your money? Because he didn’t push any products or courses on me. Now of course their is an element to any of these company and need to market to the customer, but from my standpoint, I never got the same impression I did from Kunal as I did from Tim Sykes or any other i guess “mocked” trading guru. They simply market their company like any company in the world would.
To the author of the article or to anyone reading this comment, the idea of transparency I feel has been misunderstood. If you are in BOW’s chatroom, Kunal is open about all of his trades, his wins, losses, and otherwise. He does post his real time entries and exits and has NEVER told others to follow him or play the (sheep game) some gurus choose to follow. This is something I’ve seen him address in youtube videos, his own courses as well as in his own chatroom, unlike most other trading coaches. Everyone has losing days–we can’t be perfect day in and day out, and definitely not in trading.
Now some of you may be still be skeptical of my own proof so here it is. I began trading in March with a $2,500 account and over the course of 3 months trading part time (3-5 days of the week) i grew it to $4,000 using the principles I learned from Kunal in his course. I have verified and posted all of my losing and winning trades on tradervue, and if some are still skeptical I can also attach my username if those wish to see. All of my trades from my software are uploaded to it day in and day out. One thing I also want to make clear is that Kunal doesn’t make any outrageous statements about money or that it is a guaranteed return upon investment of his products. Sure theres times in his company promotional videos that they encourage the rewards that being a day trader serves, but that is all generic company marketing. This is where I think the fallacy of people talking down upon bulls on wall street exists. Trading is probably the hardest thing I’ve tried to do in my life, and any other person who has attempted it will agree. To put it into perspective, roughly the numbers from my bootcamp course last January were around 80 people. Of those 80 I only know of maybe 10 who still trade and are successful. Now this can arise many people to think that this course was a rip off, but the truth is, trading isn’t for everyone. Just because you took the course doesn’t mean you’ll be a millionaire over night, in a year, or even 5 years. No different then anything in life. Just because you apply to university doesn’t mean you’ll earn a degree or even land a job. YOU have to put the work in and YOU have to be the one at the end of the day to get results. This is one thing that Kunal stresses behind everything. It takes resilience and your own psychological strength to figure out trading and actually become successful in the market.
As far as clique fund is concerned. I think people should also do more research on it before claiming it is a scam. In the chatroom since last year when I enrolled, there is numbers of traders who make a good living trading inside clique fund. The portion of the returns that are cut and given back to bulls on wall street are preserved inside the hedge fund to enable enough capital for more buying power. To the comments above, yes Haim Bodek was one of the founders of clique fund who is a very respected man in the investment world and has a documentary on youtube I’m pretty sure, concerning the electronic side of trading and algorithms and such. To those who are skeptical and against cliquefund, I can aim you to webinars and videos as well as documentaries that talk about why these guys started Cliquefund. In addition to this, at the end of the bootcamp and to this day, I never once was approached by the company to join cliquefund.
Anyways as I mentioned before I’m not here to point fingers or say whats right from wrong, but all I’m here is to say this. Kunal did teach and give me the tools to trade and gave me everything for me to learn about trading. But it was up to ME to learn the markets and become successful over the long term. Is it acheivable to become a 7-figure trader? Yes and I know a handful of them personally who life the ultimate trading lifestyle. But is it for everyone? No. The marketing aspect that Bulls on Wallstreet uses in some of their promotional videos is just like any other company’s marketing, only in this case; its up to the consumer to actually take action in their life.
These are just my 2 cents from my experience and I hope that this maybe informs some people about this. If you have any more questions or would like to ask me more let me know I’d be happy to share! Cheers
Great comment. And I appreciate the counter to my review.
My biggest issue is the clique fund. Its a regulatory target. They have taken an idea that several small trading groups have been employing to pool their resources and trade from a single account, and turned it into a marketing function of the educational program. Kunal is basically begging for the regulators to take him down. He is marketing the pooled funds concept as flagrantly and audacious as a gay pride parade.
I am no fan of the SEC regulators. The small guys pooling funds want nothing to do with me writing about them. And I want nothing to do with hurting the pooled guys just trying to make a buck. But when you start plugging this “Get a job as a hedge fund trader” if you buy my educational package at $3k and deposit another $3k, you are now open to scrutiny.
Believe me, Kunal has been on my radar since I wrote the Fous review. I get a ton of requests from people that bought the educational program and lost money in that Clique thing. Really the tipping point was the insider that blew the whistle.
Would be more than happy to draft a new review based upon Kunal’s actual trading performance. Heck, I dont even care about the claims of “earning millions of dollars” BS, if he can produce something legit, I will publish it. But I doubt it, the insider already gave me Kunal’s 2015 performance, and its pathetic.
Another excellent writeup by Emmett
Kunal Desai and his accomplices are master charlatans.
Here is the corporation registration for his particularly egregious Clique Fund
http://bit.do/bKUEJ
Hopefully, the regulators will catch up to him soon, so he won’t continue to hurt others.
Josh,
I guess I need to reread Emmett’s review but from what I remember it was about the trading education and the pooling of funds to get around the $25K rule and the over the top photos of the luxury lifestyle.
I would imagine if the owner were to show proof of their trading profitability, Emmett might do an update. But you and other students could do the same. Some suggestions.
You state, “Kunal is open about all of his trades, his wins, losses, and otherwise. He does post his real time entries and exits” I did not see any type of daily track record, but here is a suggestion record his TR video showing those clear entries and exits and show yourself executing those trades and the results for a few days and post here. That would show some proof.
You said, “Now some of you may be still be skeptical of my own proof so here it is. I began trading in March with a $2,500 account and over the course of 3 months trading part time (3-5 days of the week) i grew it to $4,000”
I have to ask it is Jan. Shouldn’t you be able to show results from March to Jan? Just me being the realist but in my experience the risk one would have to take to go from a $2500 to a $4000 account in 3 months would more than likely eventually lead them to blow their account. Going from $2500 to $4000 to Zero not so impressive. Just my opinion, so prove me wrong. I am not sure what Tradevue does exactly. Does it record all trades executed from a Broker or just the ones you want to show. So instead of showing Tradevue I would suggestion you show Emmett brokerage statement live of those trades from March to Today. I am sure if you and other students come forth and show your profitability using the method(s) you learned it would go along way in Emmett writing an updated review. Heck, Emmett begs people to show proof. If you are for real then take him up on that challenge.
In full disclosure I know nothing about Bulls On Wallstreet, but when I see someone claiming to be an investor or day trader posting photos of the fantasy lifestyle it makes me want to run away and scream SCAM! I know Warren Buffet is not a day trader, but he is one the greatest investor of our times. Could you imagine him posting fantasy lifestyle pictures and saying take my investment class and you to can live this way.
Anyway, Josh I for one look forward to you showing some real proof, which I am sure you will provide, that the methods they teach can be traded profitable.
To Josh
“I began trading in March with a $2,500 account and over the course of 3 months trading part time (3-5 days of the week) i grew it to $4,000”
From March to today is 10 months. How is your result in the span of 10 months? And growing 2.5k to 4k in 3 months is nothing to brag about. I made over 120% with only 2 trades in Nov 2014. But Im too embarrassed to tell the rest of the story.
they “all” are scams if anyone of these rooms were making any serious money why bother selling any of there hype.
Crazy, 31 comments and not a single person has defended the company.. kind of says it all.. every student probably loses everything, no audited results anywhere, shameful
The Bullshit of wall street definitely deserves credit for one thing……The worst Trade scam name, of all time.
I thought clique fund was an establishment of haim bodek and Peter zhang? Sang lucci guys as mentioned above
Yes Newbie trader… I also think that Maribeth is very pretty.
I’ll give them that for sure.
yes a review of sang lucci would be great
i believe they are all scams, everyone of them , not one “guru” can show a real f’ing acct dom . they hire maribeth to lure in the cattle with her good looks, i love how she always says”sick trade by Kunal” its all unicorns and rainbows, thanks for the review , but as a former chat room member the first day i knew it was a joke
I spoke to Marybeth at length before joining Bulls on Wallstreet. She made it very clear to me that the Bootcamp nor chatroom was going to make me a profitable trader. That trading was hard and would require outside work for a long period of time. Seemed fair enough to me and I didn’t not feel “hustled” one bit. Just my input.
Good to see this review
Here is a comment from Kunal on Stocktwits he made on Nov 25, 2015.
“kunal00
@4real it happens! im gonna lose and im going to lose a lot its part of the process i dont get worked up over 10 cents here or there.”
Now, ask yourself if you want to give a person who admits to losing a lot thousands of dollars of your money?
I’ve been paying attention to Kunal on Youtube for a while, he is also in cahoots with Sang Lucci aka Anand Sanghvi, a review on this guy will be very interesting, Anand’s partner in crime Peter Zhang is nothing more then a used car salesmen. Listening to these guys on Youtube makes me cringe.
Wow… Amazing review. Thank you very much.
it was about time that someone expose this con artist, robbing kids money using their dreams and ambitions and then put on YouTube photos wasting their money on trips and luxury.
This guys are the SCUM of the earth… You dont see them going for rich money, instead they prey on the naive and the ones with few money.
I have unlimited respect for the insider that finally came true and call a spade a spade… I imagine that it was hard for him.
Emmet… If you continue with this project, i think you will be probably the only one that I will remember like someone that truly tried to help people in this trading world that I now only want to give up.
Its really sad to come to this conclusion after all this years of hard work and illusions and wasted dreams of making a honest living by trading.
Keep on helping please… and count me in if i can help in something (i now a few that that deserve your attention also).
Arch,
I am responding due to your comment, “Its really sad to come to this conclusion after all this years of hard work and illusions and wasted dreams of making a honest living by trading.”
I hesitant to respond due to all the dilutional day traders that will post how they doubled their account in a month. Of course what they then fail to tell you is after that they blew their account. As a profitable investor, I will tell you it is possible to day trade profitably. First you notice I said investor, because day trading really needs to become part of an overall investment philosophy to include swing, long term and even real estate investing.
I have written many times most people fail because they are just completely clueless about money, realistic returns on money and they are way underfunded to be day trading in the first place. They refuse to accept reality. Believe me I know as I Skype with many of them.
The Trading Rooms and vendors know this, so they create a fantasy world of trading for under funded investors. You can search my name for my post and your will see I have written many post about it. I call it the Matrix. And sadly most people rather lose money trading in that Matrix then make money trading in the real world. Instead of using actual market structure the Matrix is a world of micro scalping. A world of arbitrary stop losses and targets. Where every trade is always risk 8 tick to make 4 ticks or something along those lines. How can every trade, every day, every market conditions have the exact same stop loss and target. It is insanity! And all created to be sold to underfunded traders. This is why 95% lose money. In fact from what I have seen it is a 100% failure rate for those that trade in the fantasy Matrix. It is a “FOOLS” game. I hear so many would be traders tell me the 95% fail because they are not willing to put in the time or they use bad money management, or they are using bad setups, or so forth Well that is true for a small percentage, but most put in a lot of time and use very conservative money management and they all fail. And trading profitably has nothing to due with setups. I personally spend years trading that way and did nothing but lose money. The whole idea you can come in every day and make 20 trades in CL for a 4 tick scalp each is insanity. I realize that now. No instrument is tradeable every single day.
There is a simple reason no one can ever show proof they can do it and that reason is, “IT CANNOT BE DONE PERIOD”!!!! When you read articles or listen to the truly great traders of our time none said they did it by scalping 4 ticks in the oil market. In fact if you actually listen they all say the same thing and my Holy Grails are built around them. I will give you one that is straight from the greats and I am sure you have heard it before. Cut your losers and let your winners run. Now how do you do that going for 4 ticks every time??
The fact is if most traders actually accepted reality they would realize they are not even funded enough that day trading makes any sense at all. They would be better going back to school and getting a better job and saving more money. I am sorry, but you are not going to make a living trading a $5,000 account.
In fact the way these Trading Rooms teach you to trade is not even day trading. It is an insult to actual day traders like myself. It is all base on the story of the person that under a once in a lifetime right market, right condition and my guess super risk and extreme luck turned a $5K account into a million dollars. I now call that type of trading Day Gambling, because that is what it is and your odds of doing it profitably are less than if you played the Powerball or went to Vegas.
If you really stop and think about it honestly and ask why do 95% of traders fail and why can none of these trading rooms show any proof they can trade profitable, the truth will come to you.
Arch, I will ask you 3 questions to see if you can even accept the real reality of day trading and if you can accept that reality does day trading even make sense for you.
First lets assume a $5K account, which is what a lot of would be day traders have. But the amount does not matter, I am looking at percentages.
Question 1) What do you think will be the annual return you will make on that $5,000. You can give percentage or dollars and
Question 2) What draw down do you expect you will get with that return. And yes your Draw downs is very much tied to the returns. In fact in the real world everything is tied together.
Question 3) Based on the money you will make does day trading even make sense. I spend well over 40 hours a week day trading, which includes journaling, studying and preparing. And it is a stressful job.
I await your reply to see if day trading even makes sense for you.
And I will end with one more point most people being suckered into forking their money over will never answer those question or care about those questions. After all those trading rooms are promising them a life of luxury. And that Kool-Aid taste so damn good!
Rob B … Thanks for the answer i realy apreciate it but i admit it fells like a touch in a sore point.
To sumarize i think that what happens is that in the process we block that good voice in our head telling us “dont go that way… no can do” and your desire to hit that dream is such that your vision turns blur and you believe almost any BS hopping for the best.
Regarding your questions .. it hurts to admit i´m trying a 200% return with a 40-50% possible drawdown … meaning 10.000$ for 2.000/2.500$ drawdown .
BUT WAIT … 🙂 i did adress this questions a few times with Gurus/Educators that assured me that i was wrong thinking this way because i can´t think like a investor (stocks, etc) , instead i have to think like a daytrader of Futures (ES – E-mini) and i have to think that it is only (lets say) 200 points per year, or 20 pts a month , or 1 point a day (here it gets tricky because they convinced me that it´s easy to make a 1 point a day in the long run, and i guess it is, BUT the hard part is to do it CONSISTENTLY).
So for the last question …. my problem is that i do love to trade and i can easily make that 40 hours a week around this crazy business (i can spend a day calmly looking at a chart … dont know why… i just can).
Regarding the investing point… i think i understand and can relate.
Thats why my goal from the beggining was that any Profits/Withdrawals i could take from the market were to put in the “real” economy ,
in real estate investing trying if possible something like 8 or 10 % a year (or even in a family business)…. but i admit that at first my intention was that those daytrading profits i would put it in long-term stock investing (back to the market and risk it again) but not at this point in time!
Arch,
Gosh I hate to even respond as I see the hate mail from delusional traders already.
Let’s walk through this together and see if you can accept reality. First I am sure there will be some delusional person that will post, “yea a 200% return is very reasonable”. And I am double sure some trading room operator or vendor will say that return is reasonable and show you a straight up equity curve and the 100 ticks a day you will make using their methods, just like taking a paycheck. Of course that is fantasy and why 95% of day traders lose money.
First every year is different; some years you make more and some years you will actually lose money. That is how the real world works. But let’s say the 200% is your average return you are expecting. Some years it will be higher and others less.
Let’s just start with some basic facts. If a hedge fund manager makes a 25% return in a year he is doing cartwheels and being paid millions. Can you imagine what GS would pay you to be able to make a 200% return. You could name your salary.
And the risk one would have to take to make a 200% return would more than likely blow your account. I will not even dare to say my return goal is for this year. You would be like, “That Rob must be a moron to only be able to make that return”. But I will discuss it later.
Bill Gates the richest or one of the richest men is worth around $79 Billion.
Arch, forgot about the fantasy and let me ask, have your ever thought about what a 200% return a year means. You are telling me that you truly believe in 15 years you will be as rich as Bill Gates? I can say with 100% certainty say none of the richest people got their via day trading.
Let us do the math. And please let me know if I made a math error. And for this exercise we will start with only a small $5,000 account. So year 1 you start with a $5,000 account. By the end of the year you now have made a 200% return so you have $15,000 account. So year 2 you start with $15,000 and again make a 200% return so you now have a $45,000 account size. Below is year 1-5
Year Initial Account Size End of year Account Size
1 $5,000 $15,000
2 $15,000 $45,000
3 $45,000 $135,000
4 $135,000 $405,000
5 $405,000 $1,215,000
So in 5 years you grew a $5,000 account into over a million dollar account. And if you continue with the math in 15 years you are as rich as Bill Gates. And you are right this is exactly the BS Trading Rooms tell you. Do you seriously believe this is what will happen?
Remember I said people would rather lose money trading the Matrix than make money trading in the real world. There is a reason for that. They cannot even begin to accept the reality of trading. Before you can stop trading the matrix and trade the real world you first have to be able to accept reality.
My goal is to make a 30% return this year. I might make a lot less or even more, but that is my goal. In the fantasy Matrix world that return is a joke. In the Real World every hedge fund manager, every mutual funds manager, Warren Buffer and every great investor would love to make that return. Yet I imagine you are saying, “That Rob is clueless, seriously only shooting for a 30% return”. I will tell you something else that return is tied to the draw down and to shot for a higher return, I could not live with the drawdown that higher return would incur.
So if you can accept that reality, if I started with a $5,000 account I would make $1,500 for 40+ hours of work a week. Would that make any sense? Only you can figure out when it makes sense. But do you start to see why these delusional traders cannot accept reality and why they would rather lose money trading the Matrix. Maybe if you had a $100K account and could make $30K it might make sense especially if you are retired or work at night and do it during the day.
So here is my next questions:
1) Do you still expect to be making a 200% return a year,
2) Can you accept the reality of realistic return, and
3) If you can accept a realistic return then does day trading even make sense for you based on your account size?
If you are saying, “That Rob is an idiot and I can make a 200% returns a year”, then I cannot help you move from the Matrix to Real World trading. But there are plenty of trading rooms and vendors that will tell you they can, all promising fortunes and 22 years buying Lamborghinis. They will show you how with a $5,000 account you can trade futures and make $1,000 a day paycheck day after day, virtually never have a losing day, and have a straight up equity curve. Fork over you money and drink the Kool-Aid and for goodness sake never ask them for any proof they can do it, as there will be none.
And to trade the real world that BS Matrix that Trading Room teach is gone. You will have to trade real market structure which means you have to be funded to trade the market structure. No more arbitrary stop losses and targets based on your funding ability. You are not going to be trading futures with 1 contract, that is virtually impossible to do profitably. Yes that means you are not going to be trading futures with a $5,000 account. Seriously just play the Powerball instead. And you sure as heck are not going to be micro scalping CL 20 times a day for 4 ticks. Instead you will be scanning many instruments patiently waiting for your setup to occur and placing appropriate stop losses and targets base on the actual market structure.
I will tell you something else Big Mike would say it takes 2000 hours or more to learn to trade profitably. I say if trading in the Matrix you can spend 2K, 10K or 1M hours and it makes no difference. It cannot be traded profitable. As someone that spend thousand of hours trying to do it and someone that spent their entire career doing statistical data analysis, I saw no way it could be traded profitably. It was not until I woke up from that Kool-Aid state and realize everything the Trading Rooms teach is complete BS that I started to trade profitable.
Rob B,
Such a bad attitude- Marcello can fix you right up and deliver you to the promised land. Emmet has not reviewed DTA – so by definition WE ARE GREAT! Come on plunk down some cashola and LIVE the lifestyle!!!!
What an amazing year Rob!
We are really excited for the upcoming pro trader’s seminar this year on Feb
20th and 21st (Sat and Sunday).
We are really excited for the upcoming pro trader’s seminar this year on Feb 20th and 21st (Sat and Sunday).
We wanted to send you a message to ensure that you could get the discounted room rates at the Best Western & The Double Tree hotel. The discounted rates for the hotels expire on the 19th of this month.
We are going to be covering a wide range of topics and if last year is any indication it should be an amazing event.
There will also be new Master Traders in attendance, Jared & Pedro, that are now consistently profitable to both present and meet you Rob.
Overview of the 2 day event
The all mighty Jim Steel will be presenting refinements to a variety of Pro trades
Introduction of FOB trade
MT Trades, and much more.
Using Trend Lines to increase effectiveness in your trading.
Manny – How to improve your psychology
Jared – Progression as a trader & developing your own trading plan
And much much more!
We are excited to have our newest Master Traders, Jared who just quit his job to trade full time, and Pedro, who will be helping us on the English and Portuguese side.
In the past there have been people that want to share rooms so if you are interested (sharing the $109 or $159 room rates) we can definitely put you on the list Rob.
Look forward to hearing from you!
Marcello Arrambide
Day Trading Academy
Trading is a lifestyle, not a profession
Marcello’s whole deal is fleecing the emerging middle class in latin america. A lot of these folks are totally new to the trading game. They get caught up in the excitement and get hustled.
Marcello,
Wow I see the light. I can learn the FOB trade and be making money hands over fist. Gosh where do I send my money to sign up. But first just for the heck of it can you show some actual brokerage statement live to show all the profits you made last year trading that FOB?
You’re nothing but an obnoxious scammer, and until Emmett does a comprehensive review on you, I wrote this little piece: http://www.jltrader.com/2016/01/23/the-wandering-scammer-marcello-arambide/
Vlad,
I had to comment. And it is refreshing to have nice things to say.
First you are a brave person to have a website and tell the truth about a trading room. I remember Emmett wrote something like he is constantly getting letters from lawyers, but he owes millions to the Govt. and tells them to get in line.
Second, if you have read my posts you know I am one of the harshest critics of the complete BS Trading Rooms and Vendors tell people. I did a quick look at your website and I was impressed. What you talked about in the About section is exactly right. And you actually mention Mark Cook a real trader. My holly Grails are designed from how he and other real traders trade.
Instead of the complete BS 20 micro scalps a day and arbitrary Stop Losses and Target that trading rooms teach; you talked about waiting patiently for your setup and trading actual market structure and letting those winner ride.
Even though I only looked briefly at your website it was more impressive to me that any trading room website I have seen as far as reality goes.
But if you really want to make money you need to start adding a 22 year old bombshell and her Lamborghini she just bought. LOL! The sad thing is more people will believe that than the truth.
I wish you the best of luck and I will be reading more of your articles later today.
Hi
Thanks for the nice words.
While the focus of my site is on trading and will probably expand into asset management, I really have a bee in the bonnet with charlatans who use a fantasy image of trading to line their pockets.
I’ve read your comments and it seems that we think pretty much the same.
Rob, you are back with the old same song and dance once again, the point is, Rob, that you live in a county that allows this behavior and blaming the victim is not going to get us closer to the resolution. People who pay for a product or service expect a product or service, a newbie has no clue what trading entails so they listen to people who they believe will help them for a fee, tuition instead what they get is a fraud man taking their money, times this by thousands and we have a real issue on our hands. A few of these people really need to be made an example of and then it will really slow it down, I can guarantee you that. Lock a couple of them up for 50+years and you’ll see them dissapear over night.
As to your questions, they are moot, a good futures/options trader will turn $5k into 6 figures in 12 months while a person who doesn’t know how to trade will blow it up in a fraction of that time.
There are many reasons why someone may not be comfortable with their statement being emailed out like some promotional piece, I can understand why someone may not want to do it. I wold not feel comfortable sending out my statement, we live in a world where creative people can really figure out your personal info once you give them something to work with.
The point is that people are blindsided and you have to know what you’re getting into before you can ask the right questions, nobody knows how to swim until they get in the water and start treading. I run a business and my customers expect me to perform the work they pay me for, and I do. If I tell my customers that the work is done and it’s not, they pay me cause they believe me, is that their fault? of course not.
LG,
Really, a good futures/options trader will turn $5k into 6 figures in 12 months while a person who doesn’t know how to trade will blow it up in a fraction of that time.
This complete BS is why 95% people are suckered in and loss money. Where is that person LG? Heck Emmett begs these people to show a measly 3 months statement that they can make a dime and they cannot even do that.
You ever watch interviews with real investors or traders? Show me any real article on a actual real trader who is doing that and why the heck are they not working for GS being paid a $100+ Million a year.
The odds are higher of taking that money and betting on Red at Vegas. People like you that spread fantasy make me sick. You have no clue what you are talking about.
Honestly if I had time to deal with all the fraudsters that would bring forth fake documents I would offer a $,5000 reward to anyone that can show they can do what you state they can do. And I would have no fear of losing my money. I double dare you to find this mysterious person that can do this on a regular basis. Sure just like someone won the Powerball one in a million might luck out and do this feat.
All I can say is a Fool is born every minute. And if you believe LG’s statement then hand your money over to the trading rooms and drink that Kool-Aid, because I can guaranty you LG will be able to show no proof. Even the people entering in the World Cup Competition who are risking 30% or more to win a competition can not do what LG claims they can do. But heck I do not care believe the LG and throw your money away.
I will just say this, you’re the person who is telling people to ask for statements to verify not me, not every trader aspires to open a trading room and hang out with journalist. I belong to a trading group of over 500 people that we set up on meetup, some people are very good (seen them trade). As the saying goes, Just because you can’t do something it does’t mean it can’t be done. There are many forms of trading so once again your GS nonsense is moot, try day/swing trading billions of $ and see if GS will give you that magical $100mm salary, you’ll be out on your ass before lunch. What and how people trade depends on personality, Bill Ackman tripled down on VRX would give most people a heath attack, he’s already double digits in the hole for 2016. ie..I’m not comfortable putting half my money into one stock or even holding over night anymore. This is why my best advice to newbies is go at it by yourself, figure out who you are and what style of trading fits you. Dont let Rob tell you that you need to be doing everything under the sun to make money, because with his comprehension and anger problems you can bet hes not. Adios, Robby, hope things work out for you, just quit blaming the victim and calling them fools because if my memory serves me correctly you admitted to falling for these scams as well.
LG,
You do everything under the sun but show any proof what so ever to back up your statements. I could say you are an alien from Vulcan and it would be as believably as your comments about how these trading buddies of yours are regularly making a 2000% return. I actually showed proof that no hedge fund, mutual fund or known trader can do what you claim is being done on a regular basis by these mysterious trader friends of yours. Heck want more facts here is a link showing the performance of Managed Futures and CTAs.
http://www.iasg.com/Managed-Futures/Performance
WOW!!! What a shocker none of them are able to even come close to achieving the returns that your “Self Proclaimed” mysterious trading buddies are able to doing.
LG, you are 99% fact free and clearly clueless about the type of returns one can make day trading, but again I would love for you to show any actual proof of your claim instead of talking about it and spreading complete BS fantasy.
I will address two comments you made:
“Dont let Rob tell you that you need to be doing everything under the sun to make money”
Even though I did not say that in that manner, I do not want what I actually said to be misunderstood. The point I was trying to make is that you will find most successful day trader will eventually expand into swing trading and other investment vehicles. And there is a reason for that, but I doubt you would understand LG, as I have zero doubt you and your mysterious unnamed traders can trade profitable.
LG, why not get those mysterious trader who are regularly making 2000% return as you claim to privately show Emmett some proof of a real brokerage account documenting these amazing returns. I can hear your answer now, “They do not need to show any proof”. And I say that is because they cannot show any proof of your fantasy claims.
Your second comment I want to address is: “just quit blaming the victim and calling them fools”. I was trying to say, “Wise up and do not be the “FOOL”. As long as people believe the crap you and other trading rooms and vendors promising fantasy returns then yes they will be the “FOOL”. And I have open admitted I was the fool once. Hech even Emmett has admitted to being scammed by a trading room (actually the same room I was scammed by). But my point LG, is for Goodness sake do not be the “FOOL”. Do not take LG or even my word, demand real proof. When someone like LG says there are traders turning $5,000 accounts into $100,000 accounts (actually he said 6 figures so it could be much more than $100K) , do not take his word for it; Demand Proof! As I have repeatedly stated your odds of turning $5,000 into a $100,000 in year are better playing Powerball than day trading. Just think about it, you know 95% lose money, do you really think the remaining 5% are doing those returns. This is a one in a million shot. And as I have stated it is an insult to day traders like me and others who day trade profitable. It is not day trading; it is Day Wild Ass Gambling. Yes Day WAG!! That will be my new name for it. And if instead of investing and slowly growing your account your goal is to go for that 1 in a million shot, then just realize you are Day Wagging and I wish you the best of luck.
Review the sites I showed and look at what real traders can actually make. Don’t fall for the fantasy presented by LG and others!!!!! And one last point I think is important. That site from the trading championships that show great returns, remember these traders are taking insane risk to win the competition in order to be able to say, “look I won this competition in year X, therefore buy my educational training” or whatever they are selling. A one year return in a trading competition means nothing! Absolutely nothing, because they more than likely blew their account with a 100% loss in other years. You would need to look at a 5 year return, which I would imagine with the risk they are taking would be very low. So just go in with your eyes wide open.
Rob B… LG has a point there, you do blaim the victim in your posts (but I guess that maybe that girl should know better before going out with that clevage?).
Thinking about it more, you are right and i would never be trying to be the underfunded trading student.
So i have a new plan that I think you’ll like.
What i should do instead is put all i learned and all the experience i gain in a site and ask for a little money and also put this 40 hour week i spend in a new TR i will create to help the newbie underfunded wanabe traders.
I once was in a TR were the head scamer brag to have teach in 4 years over 400 clients… At about 1k subscription is 400k…100k a year.
Do you see it now?
In 2 years my problems will be over and i will no more be that underfunded FOOL you talk about and then with an account of let say about 100.000$ i will ask for your help to achieve those 30% that is more than i need in order to provide for my family.
I’ll try to keep a low profile so that Emmet and all of you don’t find me quickly.
But hey… I just need a couple of years for this and i can bet you i’ll do a better job than most of this TR out there.
I now see the Light.
Thank you Rob B… You truly help me.
Rob B… LG has a point there, you do blaim the victim in your posts (but I guess that maybe that girl should know better before going out with that clevage?).
Thinking about it more, you are right and i would never be trying to be the underfunded trading student.
So i have a new plan that I think you’ll like.
What i should do instead is put all i learned and all the experience i gain in a site and ask for a little money and also put this 40 hour week i spend in a new TR i will create to help the newbie underfunded wanabe traders.
I once was in a TR were the head scamer brag to have teach in 4 years over 400 clients… At about 1k subscription is 400k…100k a year.
Do you see it now?
In 2 years my problems will be over and i will no more be that underfunded FOOL you talk about and then with an account of let say about 100.000$ i will ask for your help to achieve those 30% that is more than i need in order to provide for my family.
I’ll try to keep a low profile so that Emmet and all of you don’t find me quickly.
But hey… I just need a couple of years for this and i can bet you i’ll do a better job than most of this TR out there.
I now see the Light.
Thank you Rob B… You truly helped me.
Arch,
If you are looking for someone to lie and perpetuate the myth of the fantasy return and say, you can trade futures with a $5,000 account, micro scalp CL 20 times a day and make 4 ticks a trade and turn a $5,000 account into a $25,000, $50,000, $100,000 or a $200,000, then you are absolutely right; I AN NOT YOUR GUY and I cannot help you!!!!!!
But there are plenty other poster, trading room and vendors out there that will tell you how they can. Of course none of them will ever be able to show you any proof.
And yes after being told the reality of trading rooms; if you go from one trading room to another hoping for that miracle fantasy return then yes you are the Fool and get what you deserve and it is in no way analogous to a rape victim.
I pointed you to actual links and facts about real returns from real traders, but I understand reality is like a slap in the face. Who want to hear actual facts. You can lead a horse to water but you cannot force him to drink. I am sure you are an intelligent person and eventually you will wake up and realize what I have told you is accurate.
I am sorry but praying and wishing does not make the promises of fantasy returns promised by so many real. I get tons of those emails every day. Here is one I got today:
http://screencast.com/t/paZLeJEad
There you go 3-4 stop loss and made $1850 dollars. What is there not to like. If you think the trading rooms Emmett has given horrible reviews are the anomaly, you are sadly mistaken. Every trading room promising fantasy returns are a SCAM, Period!!!! And any truly profitably trading room will tell you the same things I have told you that you did not want to hear. The great traders of our day were properly funded for the instrument they traded, they cut their loser, added to their winners and let their winners run and they slowly grew their account.
Vlad has a website he posted that I thought was pretty good, you might take a look at it.
I will comment on one last thing you mentioned. I did not say you need a $100K to day trade. I said after you accept the reality of day trading you have to decide what makes sense for your situation and I will tell you why I even respond to post like this. I Skype with lots of traders and most are trading the Matrix. They do not want to hear reality. They want to believe in the fantasy and they continue to lose money. As I have said many many times the fantasy Matrix taught by most trading rooms and vendors cannot be traded profitably, I do not care how much you pray it can be. The fact is I wish someone had slapped me in the face earlier and set me straight. As I said most people have no interest in the truth, but every once in a while someone I talk to will wake up from the dark sleep and realize trading the Matrix is Day Wild Ass Gambling and they will stop Day Wagging and start trading properly and then start to actually grow their account.
I’ve been trading for 15 years. Here’s what I know. If you think that any market trades all the time in 4 tick increments, then please send me whatever it is you’re smokin, and for Pete’s sake, stop fantasizing that you’ll be rich by Memorial Day. Here’s what I really know:
1. The markets are all about price and structure. If you can trade the structure, you can trade it with an account of any size. It all depends on what time frame you are going to trade. And I also know that most profitable traders look at multiple time frames, even if they are trading the smallest one because the Big Fish Eat the Little Fish and that’s why 4 ticks won’t do it. By structure I mean placing your stops where the market says, this is a temporary bottom or top, and if taken out, you and other market participants will be taken out. Take a look at any time frame and you’ll see the markets move off particular pivot points and often you will see that pivot get tested and hold; that’s a pivot you can use to place your stop, and of course it depends on what time frame you are trading.
And you have to be firm in your resolve to take the loss, no letting losers run. I was at a meetup recently where someone asked me if I had any “dogs” in my portfolio. I told her, no I had losses but no dogs, nothing I was holding on to in the hope that it would go up/down and put me back in the green.
2. Are you psychologically fit? Meaning, can you take losses. What suits your psychology? Are you okay trading 30% winners or would you rather trade with 70-80% winners.
I could go on a lot more, but in the hope of refraining from boring you, let me just add that caution is a good course to pursue in checking out these trading rooms.
I’m not looking for a trading room, I don’t need it, but Emmett is doing a great service here, and until I see someone back up their claims with real statements, I would completely trust the work he is doing.
Rob B … thank you from the answers and for trying to help.
I was beeing sarcastic of course and i do think a lot like you do (you would be amazed how much).
But what i tried you to also understand is that the REALITY of this business is that scrupulous people are making a living an laughing al way to the bank of the people that reach clueless to them for EDUCATION.
And this point is very sensible to me because i spend allmost all my life studying and then teaching.
This has to stop … and the worst is that i do believe that almost all will make good money without even be responsible for their acts (how many will be caught and how many will serve time for this? I can bet you that few or none… only 2 or 3 that went greed and start to mess with richer or more influent people).
This TR Scammers deserve to be confronted by their ilegal (or at least unetical) behaviours.
This site is extremely important because of that.
When you blame the victim you lower the reponsability of the Scamer.
Emmet has talked about this very well, describing that, many of this guys have started being the so called Fools and then decided that by that fact they have the right to do the same to others.
Totally wrong IMHO.
Emmet, sorry to ask but… do you think about people you have sold bad penny stocks like FOOLS that got what they deserved?
Whew…that’s a lot of verbal diarrhea Rob. But you are funny.
Wow… Amazing review. Thank you very much.
it was about time that someone expose this con artist, robbing kids money using their dreams and ambitions and then put on YouTube photos wasting their money on trips and luxury.
This guys are the SCUM of the earth… You dont see them going for rich money, instead they prey on the naive and the ones with few money.
I have unlimited respect for the insider that finally came true and call a spade a spade… I imagine that it was hard for him.
Emmet… If you continue with this project, will be probably the only one that I will remember like someone that truly tried to help people in this trading world that I now only want to give up.
Its really sad to come to this conclusion after all this years of hard work and illusions and wasted dreams of making a honest living by trading.
Keep on helping please… and count me in if i can help in something (i now a few that that deserve our attention also).
I am just amazed how this whole industry is nothing but one big scam with all parts feeding each other. Platforms allowing trading rooms (TR) operators to give webinars without even checking if the TR operator can trade profitably. Brokers not saying anything as they get the commissions from the foolish traders. Sites like Investopedia and worst of all Dean Handley and his bogus reviews and his Trading Titans. All with one purpose in mind to sucker people out of their money. And yet all these people have to do is just one thing that Vlad stated, ask for a verified track-record. But I am going to add to that as I have seen faked track records. Heck the TR I got suckered in had years of them. Demand they open up their brokerage statement live and show they executed the trades. If people would demand the following 99.9999% of trading rooms and vendors would go out of business:
1) Demand they show a DOM and/or chart with clear entries, targets and stop losses, prior to the trade being executed,
2) Demand a daily track record be kept showing the trades they executed with slippage shown,
3) Demand they show the brokerage account with the executed trades,
4) Demand a 30 day trial where you can witness they do all the above honestly and accurately.
Here is the sad news, I doubt you will find such a TR and that should speak volumes to you about this industry.
And for Goodness sake do not believe a TR can trade profitably because:
1) A Trading Platform like Ninja Trader allows them to do a webinar,
2) They got good reviews on Investi Scamma, or
2) Dean Handley says they can.
Vet these rooms the way you would vet someone you were going to hire to manager your money or vet someone you were going to hire to build your house. Demand they show actual proof they can trade profitably. There is a reason virtually none of these TR can even show 3 months of profitability which Emmett ask for. And in my opinion 3 months is not enough. Until you are willing to do this you will continue to be the fool Don’t be the “FOOL!!
Thank you for al the hard work Emmet. I almost fel for this. I can not believe that there are so much scams out there.
Sam,
Your link to investimonials does not work for me and hopefully most of us as they ban IP addresses of anybody giving truthful negative reviews of one of their paid advertisers. Thus all of the positive BS reviews. Timothy Sykes is a Piece of Shit and would sell his mother if it meant another $50 is subscription revenue. Not sure how he and anyone associated with him can live with themselves.
I hear you Chuck. I tried Sykes’ WIA course a few years ago and had to pester WIA to get a refund for the worthless newsletter. The “lessons” were lousy as he was laughing with his girlfriend as he was recording. As a visitor on investimonials, it’s annoying to see Kavan’s Ad pop up everytime. One of the trackers on their site is called “commission junction”. Maybe getting to the site through a free WiFi node and blocking tracking cookies will work.
Hey is there a way to get my money back from. Kunal bulls on Wall Street?
The DTA site has changed! Guess they have been reading the comments here. The background resort pic is now replaced by a classroom. Still plenty of resort pictures and videos around though. This guy was a former member of DTA. His thoughts. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4y5CoaZtDy4
The same thing over again. Like falling dominoes. Another site with 100+ good reviews on “investimonials”. 200 leads a month? It’s amazing how this industry of webinar education and trading rooms have thrived. It must be the “one percent” envy where so many of us plebes think “learning” to trade the markets can somehow get some of the wealth that is hoarded by the few in the world. Not to mention the lousy world economy and global wage deflation. There should be an “ETF” of tradeable index of how these rooms make money off of education before they get exposed. Amazing WarriorTrading has recovered with more members than ever. This site “tradingschools” is now the anti-“investimonials” site media that the victims so desperately need. The comments here are also like reverse of investimonials’ shilling backup and refuting comments. Keep up the great work. Arambide’s DayTradingAcademy’s review is long overdue. The website background itself is a prime example of red herring photos along with their videos. The similarities are eerie to GTR on investimonials as there is a “boom boom” trade setup with their scalping. http://investimonials.com/websites/reviews-bulls-on-wall-street.aspx?sortby=3&trust=0&page=1#reviews
Wow… Amazing review. Thank you very much.
it was about time that someone expose this con artist, robbing kids money using their dreams and ambitions and then put on YouTube photos wasting their money on trips and luxury.
This guys are the SCUM of the earth… You dont see them going for rich money, instead they prey on the naive and the ones with few money.
I have unlimited respect for the insider that finally came true and call a spade a spade… I imagine that it was hard for him.
Emmet… If you continue with this project, will be probably the only one that I will remember like someone that truly tried to help people in this trading world that I now only want to give up.
Its really sad to come to this conclusion after all this years of hard work and illusions and wasted dreams of making a honest living by trading.
Keep on helping please… and count me in if i can help in something (i now a few that that deserve oWow… Amazing review. Thank you very much.
it was about time that someone expose this con artist, robbing kids money using their dreams and ambitions and then put on YouTube photos wasting their money on trips and luxury.
This guys are the SCUM of the earth… You dont see them going for rich money, instead they prey on the naive and the ones with few money.
I have unlimited respect for the insider that finally came true and call a spade a spade… I imagine that it was hard for him.
Emmet… If you continue with this project, will be probably the only one that I will remember like someone that truly tried to help people in this trading world that I now only want to give up.
Its really sad to come to this conclusion after all this years of hard work and illusions and wasted dreams of making a honest living by trading.
Keep on helping please… and count me in if i can help in something (i now a few that that deserve your attention also).
There all scams everyone of these pos flakes
Another great review, kudos. Sometimes it seems to me that trader porn might overtake actual porn in popularity LOL Just from the top of my head you have Tim Sykes, AstroFX, Marcello Arrambide, Anton Kreil, and guys you’ve written about like Cameron Fous.
And when you think that all this would fall apart like a house of cards if only the clients would ask for a verified track-record. Amazing.