Oil Trading Group…6 months later.
This past December, 2014, I posted a very positive review of The Oil Trading Group. You can read the original review by clicking here. What is the Oil Trading Group? The Oil Trading Group is a live day trading room, owned and moderated by Jason Love. Since my last review, The Oil Trading Group has grown a bit. There is now has a full time assistant named Dave Hamman. Dave’s job is to handle subscribers, answer technical questions, help subscribers set up their trading platforms correctly, take sales calls, basically Dave Hamman allows Jason Love to focus on just trading. The entire focus of The Oil Trading Group is trading crude oil futures.
The Past And The Future
How did I find Jason Love and The Oil Trading Group? Last year, while trolling through the successfully funded traders at TopStepTrader, I discovered that Jason, in addition to trading for the TopStepTrader investment fund, had also recently set up a trading room advisory. At that time, The Oil Trading Group and Jason Love were relative newcomers to the trading education scene. In my opinion, the website reflected a one man operation, it was pretty rough. Over the past 6 months, Jason has added a blog to the original website that does a better job of describing The Oil Trading Group. In addition to a new blog, he also included a membership portal with some short and handy informational videos that helps traders get set up and trading as soon as possible. Both of these additions, as well as a super accessible Dave Hamman is a massive improvement regarding customer experience. Too many trading educators that I review will spend all of their time focusing on getting your credit card number, once they have your credit card number, then you are just another piece of meat on the assembly line. Jason’s focus has shifted from being more than just a signal provider, he is pushing aggressively towards providing a better customer experience and retention of subscribers. He appears to be doing a pretty good job. And there is evidence to back up my assertion.
Lack Of Complaints
I have learned that whenever I post a positive review, I have very little to gain and everything to lose. As a professional reviewer, a positive review is pretty much a lose/lose proposition for me. If I post a review that exposes a fraud, I receive a bunch of thank you’s from random people, and a few responses from others that got scammed, and many more from folks that read my review and avoided the mess of crap that many trading educators proffer. However, when I make a highly positive review…I need to be really, really sure that my review is not flawed. That every angle is covered. That every possible fraudulent angle has been explored. People read my review and then trust that the information is valid. That what they are reading is honest and not a hyped up piece of promotional bull crap. When I wrote my original, and highly positive review of Jason and The Oil Trading Group…I literally was biting my nails in anticipation. Surely some wreckage would wash up onto my blog and make me look like an idiot.
Discovery
Over the past 6 months, I have had over 100,000 readers spend at least three minutes reading my original review. You can read it here. In addition to 100,000 readers spending at least three minutes reading this specific page, nearly 90% scrolled through the entire page, reading the review and the comments section. I thought that for sure, with 100% certainty that I would be receiving a boat load of negative comments. In truth, I received very little negative feedback. One thing I have discovered is that people will complain, and complain loudly about the tiniest indiscretion. But if a trading product is good…you wont hear a peep of positive feedback. Its as if the consumer of the trading product does not want to make too much noise about their little secret trading gem. They hoard it. But some reach out to me, in a non public manner, to let me know that they are experiencing a life changing transformation in their personal trading.
Successful Students
One of the ways that we can measure the true value of a trading room is to measure the success of the students. This is very difficult. Ultimately, how a student performs is all that really matters. We, as students and consumers of these products show up to make money. We are not there to make friends and chat. We are there to make money. Over the past 6 months, I have received several emails from student/subscribers telling me that they are happy with their results. When it comes in the form of an email, I pretty much just trash the message because vendors that get terrible reviews spam me with positive reviews of their product (The Investimonials Strategy). But when I receive positive feedback in the form of account statements or a congratulation letter from TopStepTrader, I take real notice, especially the TopStepTrader program. Let me explain…many of Jason’s students enroll in the TopStepTrader program because they do not have enough money to trade. If they pass the combine, they receive a trading stake from the TopStepTrader investment program. You cannot bullshit TopStepTrader. Period.
Since February 2014, I have now received my 5th confirmed trader that has now passed the TopTraderTrader trading combine and is trading with someone else’s money, and not risking their own money. The following is a screenshot of the actual combine tally sheet…for the most recent student of Oil Trading Group.
I would like for you to pay especially close attention to May 21, 2015 and May 12, 2015. Notice that on both of these trading days that the trader lost the maximum daily limit of $3,000. In spite of these two massive losing days, he still passed the TopStepTrader combine and received funding. Amazing.
What is crazy about all of this is that I recorded both of the losing days on Camtasia. And they were UGLY. In fact, I emailed Jason and made a comment on how he could possible offer a viable trading room when during the span of 10 trading days, he had managed to lose nearly $6,ooo dollars. Jason responded to my email by saying, “I pushed yet another newbie, know nothing trader through the merciless meat grinder of the TopStepTrader combine, how many of your other trading guru’s can say the same?”. What could I say.
The Making Of Sausage
Since December 2014 through May 2015, I have had unprecedented access to The Oil Trading Group. Jason has given me free and unfettered access to the trading room. I can enter and exit with zero notice. Sometimes I direct my assistant to drop in unannounced and begin screen recordings with no notice. I have recorded strings of up to two weeks. Jason sends me private messages how I am doing? I never respond because I am never actually watching live. I do the watching later. What do I usually see? I am not going to paint a pretty picture…sometimes Jason takes a terrible beating. I have seen multiple occasions where he starts off trading down $1,000 for the day, only to finish up for the day by $2,000. And this is really a common occurrence. It get ugly and messy and I talked about this in my original review. However, in speaking with Jason about these equity swings, he say’s…”this is what professional trading looks like”. And, “making a living at trading is lot like sausage making, you really have to have a tough stomach for what goes into the making of profits. This is a game where your only chance at success is to be both well capitalized and be extremely tough and resilient”.
Jason is tough and grisly.
I like to make fun of Jason Love. He is not very pretty. As this picture to the left accurately depicts…he is not the Wall Street type. It would fair to say that his days of youth and beauty are probably behind him. But what Jason lacks in youth and beauty, he more than makes up for in toughness and proven resiliency. Too many days to count, over too many months, I have watched this guy trade live. Under the pressure and microscope of my Camtasia screen recordings, he just keeps pushing through, putting his trades on the line for all to see. Nobody has ever contacted me and said that this guy is a fraud or a phony. In fact, the thing I hear most is about his mental toughness. I don’t hear much about the wins and the losses, its about the toughness. The grisly, ornery, meaty toughness of this guy. The will to show up every single morning and put on his game face. To start the day by taking on a broken nose and losing a tooth, but persevering through the early beating, only to gain traction and finish the day raising his arms in victory. Day after day, month after month, over and over again.
Tough Like A Turkey Drumstick
Jason and his trading room are a bit like a turkey drumstick. Have you ever eaten a turkey drumstick at your local fair? They always look so good 
when they are grilling and you can smell the smoke and imagine the flavor. But once you get this big thing in your hands, you quickly realize that its tough and grisly. Yes, it sort of tasty. But mostly its a big meaty thing that requires nearly superhuman effort to consume. This is sort of 
what its like trading with the Oil Trading Group, you are going to be handed this big meaty turkey drumstick, every single morning, and its your job to defeat this meaty thing by gnawing and gnashing. After awhile you discover that this 
trading thing is really a tough business. But ultimately, you discover that the drumstick is actually full of protein and quite healthy.
What We Know So Far
Over the past 6 months, the thing I have really learned regarding The Oil Trading Group and trading crude oil futures in particular, is that its a tough but lucrative game. This is not a scalpers market. This is the type of market where you really need to be well capitalized, and you need to be extraordinarily tough minded. The oil market can whip around and knock weak players out of the game quickly. If you show up to trade crude oil, and your account balance is $3k, then you are most likely just grease for the wheel. Guys like Jason are going to take your money and send you home with a sore bottom.
The Way Forward
In my humble opinion, and with much reservation, I feel that the best way to trade with Jason at The Oil Trading Group, is to trade through the TopStepTrader program. Why? Because Jason trades for a living. And since he is trading for a living, he trades multiple contracts, four contracts to be specific. And four contracts is much to much exposure for the average person reading this blog. Most of the people reading this blog are struggling to be profitable and trading with smaller accounts. Most of my readers cannot afford to lose $3k during a single trading session. And if they did, they would be so demoralized, heartbroken, gun shy, and saddled with doubt and fear that I doubt they would have the mettle to keep trading. The TopStepTrading program will allow you to trade 4 contracts of crude oil, and match the trades exactly as Jason is trading. If Jason gets on a hot streak, you could be a funded trader in short order.
For those with live trading accounts willing to trade a 4 lot, its one thing to say, hey I am OK with losing money because I know that Jason is a long term performer. But its entirely different when you experience the day to day grind of the oil market. You can make a lot quickly, and you can lose a lot even quicker.
Since I make recommendations, I feel the most responsible by recommending a system where you can replicate Jason’s trades exactly, not risk your own money, and yet still have a very good chance of quickly passing the TopStepTrader combine.
A Short Video
Below you will see a short, 15 minute video that I created from a live trading session of The Oil Trading Group. In reality, the trading session lasted 2 hours, but I edited out the dead zone where no trades were active. The remaining footage of live trades, which was 45 minutes, I edited the frame speed and condensed the play back rate. The net effect is that you get to watch an entire trading session in only 15 minutes.
How did I select the video? I actually have a massive amount of live recordings from The Oil Trading Group. I had some days where Jason took out over $5k, $4k, a bunch of $3k days. I also have a collection of $3k losing days. And so, when I decided on which recording to show, I decided to show the most “average” trading day. The video that you are about to see is really the closest representation of what an average day looks like at The Oil Trading Group. One more thing, since I had to speed up the frame rate, this made Jason’s voice sound like a chipmunk, so I removed the voice audio and replaced it with a few of my favorite songs. Hope you don’t mind my music selection.
Interesting Side Note
I wanted to make sure that I included an interesting email exchange that I received from a former student of The Oil Trading Group. I was contacted last April from one of Jason’s former students that passed the TopStepTrader combine challenge with Jason’s help. He explained to me how he began trading, mostly unsuccessfully for nearly 3 years and nearly altogether quite trading, however eventually through Jason’s tutelage he was able to finally become profitable. How he passed the combine, then promptly flunked out of the TopStepTrader program by over trading, etc. And that he went back through the combine and made it back a second time. It was a painful journey for him.
What I found interesting is the second time he went through the TopStepTrader combine…he did not do so as a member of The Oil Trading Group. He had learned the core principles behind Jason’s strategy and adapted them. He explained that he got deep into programming, backtesting, and validating what Jason had taught him. He feels like he improved upon Jason’s core knowledge and enhanced it. I do not want to make this “side note” another story altogether, however his story is interesting and I will be publishing the story in the near future.
About TopStepTrader
I want to make sure that I am not outright endorsing the TopStepTrader program. Truth be told, it is a very difficult combine to actually pass. TopStepTrader is only looking for the cream of the crop. Most of us do not fit this description. However, the TopStepTrader program combined with The Oil Trading Group is something to consider for those with less than $25k in trading capital. Also, it might be a good option for those that do not have the mental toughness (yet) to handle multiple thousand dollar losing days. Something to consider. I will definitely be writing a thorough review of TopStepTrader in the weeks ahead. Highlighting the strengths and weaknesses. But that is another day.
Wrapping Things Up
Six months ago, I wrote a glowing review of The Oil Trading Group. Considering how volatile the equity curve, I was reluctant and expecting the worst. Over these last few months, I feel like I have validated the original review. I have amassed a huge amount of recordings and witnessed both the highest highs, and the bloodiest worst days of this trading room. The information that I have provided to you today is my best opinion, and my opinion is that The Oil Trading Group is still a high quality trading product.
Thanks for reading and don’t forget to leave your comments below.
I’m a lifetime member in OTG that has traded with Jason for about half a year now. My personal advice is for new traders to not look into using this site as I’ve been keeping record of his trades and his strategies and it seems pretty clear Jason is a break-even trader at best with possibly a loss in capital yearly. For this reason he doesn’t record his trade logs and he also doesn’t follow a set strategy. This is very problematic and makes me doubt if Emmett is giving unbiased reviews or if he is paid off by some of the people he reviews. Jason maintains a website by running his customers into the financial trap that is TopStepTrader and siphons a commission fee from them as well as charging membership to his site. He by no means has a solid strategy that works because he changes it up daily doing whatever he “feels” like is best with no statistics to back it up(no backtests or historical logs of his trades). Be VARY WARY of this site if you do sign up for it and be DOUBTFUL of Emmett himself since he promotes people like this with no verification of trade logs, for example Steven Dux who is clearly a fraud.
So, why are you still in the room, for a life time, Sir? I’ve been 3 times in the room and it was like Emmett says, plus he had a plan and “market makers’ levels” to trade, marked before hand and traded accordingly. And the toughness part is spot on
This site is still going. In light of all that’s happened in the five years or so since, would OTG still rate a high rating? They seem to be mostly intraday short daytrading, not recommended generally in light of “Trading is for suckers” 2019 tradingschools article with the clown face. Also they still have “hypothetical CFTC rule 4.41” all over the wazoo, so they could likely still be shamshow sim shows and results. (https://www.oiltradinggroup.com/free-trial-2/) Also $300/month for the room is not cheap for newcomers to futures trading. Pretty much $30k a month shamshow gig for a small team if they can’t trade for a living trading oil themselves. Anyway, in light of the standards that should have evolved, or any stragglers that come across this review to be aware of what should constitute proof of real trading or be deemed a scammy shamshow: (https://www.reddit.com/r/Daytrading/comments/ghtjwe/daytrading_scams/g231dzr/)
I’m coming up on a year in OTG (Novemeber). I started out in Jason’s trade room after the free trial – which he is very generous with. I had the idea that I would mirror the trades and cruise off with a TopStep Combine. It didn’t work that way – I had to learn to trade myself. Jason makes that point continually; he is open about what he is doing but never lets you escape the fact that you alone are responsible for your own trading. I agree with some of the comments; its against my nature to let trading profits slip away – but I am not running the room. Sometimes I use the trades as a foil – but my approach is different, I like to get in, take what’s there and get ready for the next trade. Whatever else I can say, I believe that Jason is a man with integrity and plain, old-fashioned guts; I have not regretted joining the OTG for a minute, although I’ve pulled my hair out once or twice. At the end of the day, the only question is this: does he make money – the answer is yes, if you can stand the heat.
LOL – Thanks for the real comments guys. I recommend Convergent Trading with FT71, you don’t get the calls but you can get the levels and proper mentorship. 🙂
Nothing of value. They lock you out of room really fast. Waste of time.
Jason has gone off the deep end. He’s had a really bad run for several weeks. I was gone for a couple of weeks and come back this Monday and he’s added NQ to his trading of ES and CL I guess to try something different and get things going again. Well immediately he starts trading the NQ and losing. Normally he’s done about 11am or so. Well, now that he’s trading NQ he’s in and out of trades left and right and trading a few hours more. He wasn’t done until after 1pm today because he just can’t stop. Normally he’s pretty disciplined, but now he’ll get stopped out and just jump right back in time after time and take loss after loss. It’s crazy. He’s totally changed as a trader.
For instance today I got in the room late, and he was already down several hundred dollars in NQ, a few hundred in ES, and down $100 in CL He keeps jumping in NQ and losing. He finally shuts down NQ and ES and starts concentrating on an oil trade he’s in. In the meantime, he can’t stay out of NQ and brings the DOM up again and does a few more losing trades. He takes it back off the screen and concentrates on the oil trade which goes well over an hour. To make a long story short, he’s at up at least $1k on the oil trade at one point, and ends up giving all the profit back and making $100 on 10 ticks on 2 contracts. This is his worst trait, he gives back huge profits all the time. Many trades will go well in his favor and he’ll sit there and give it almost all back, and sometimes will give it all back. It’s crazy. He ended up with almost a $1700 loss today and that’s not including commissions. At least he used to get mad when he lost big and quit, but now he just keeps trading and making it worse and worse.
He has always been fond of dragging out a pic of the Tasmanian Devil from Bugs Bunny and says he always tries to keep that guy under control when trading. Well now he’s gone full Taz Devil on steroids. It’s like watching a train wreck. It’s horrible but you just can’t turn away. And you sure don’t dare say anything as he is like most room heads with a huge ego and you’ll be gone in a New York minute like Jerry said above.
He also started a new combine with TST several weeks ago and you never heard about it again after he started losing. I really can’t recommend it. He’s gone off the deep end.
I’ve been an OTG member for well over a year and it’s time to write a review. I’m baffled at certain aspects so this will have conflicting points, one positive and one negative. I’ll only be focusing on two things, the education provided under the OTG membership and Jason’s trading in the live room.
Education: There’s a large amount of education that will keep you occupied for many days. Start the videos, read the documents and analyze your charts based on what you just learned; you’re going to need a comfortable office chair and a lot of your favorite mental alertness medication. Most of what’s there can be found doing a Google search, however, there’s a golden egg that seems to only be found within the OTG universe, the market maker levels. These are truly remarkable levels that have revolutionized my trading. While I use a slightly modified version of Jason’s, I will not trade without them. For this I can give OTG nothing but top notch credit and praise.
Trade Room: Here’s where things take a turn for the worse. I’ve tried to rationalize Jason’s trading and understand why he’s making trades. It seems erratic and reckless to me, however, just because I myself don’t understand a foreign language doesn’t mean it’s not logical and understandable to others. So what’s something that everybody in trading will understand no matter the language? The tried and true P/L statement. Jason has all these fancy reasons as to why he doesn’t show this type of thing. During my time at OTG, Jason has attempted the TST Combine several times and failed each one rather quickly. There was a time he decided to show his P/L on the membership page, which is no longer available. So what gives? Is Jason a profitable trader in the long run? I started calculating the numbers and want many more months for the sample size, but the numbers don’t look good so far.
Summary: I’ve been in countless number of trade rooms and have yet to be impressed with the moderators trading results and the OTG is no different from that aspect. It’s the market maker levels that separate the OTG from the other trading rooms. If you do join the OTG, learn these levels well and make them your own, however, don’t think you can just follow Jason’s trades and make your millions.
Better sale!! Lifetime membership is for sale $2000, now only $1000 get in touch if interested.
Info on OTG membership?
Lifetime membership is for sale $2000, now only $1500 get in touch if interested
Hello,
I’m going to do a short review about The Oil Trading group.
I am in the live room since 1 year. First I will tell you I am a trader with more than 12 years’ experience. To have experience does not mean to be consistent. It means that I know about I talk. I have been an several live trading rooms like this. The trader is Jason Love.
What will you find this live room? You can learn a system based in Fibonacci levels. The Jason’s motto is to do trades with risk/reward 1:4 or 1:5. You can copy his trades. He trade in ES and CL futures. Jason is a traders very disciplined. When his daily stop loss is reached (900/1,000$) He stop trade and close the emission until next day. He put the target and stop quickly after to entry to the market.
He do a daily trading plan and also respect it for better or worse. In his website, when you are member (after pay 2,000$) You can find several indicators, explains videos, and the system used by Jason showed with more detail. You will have unlimited acces to live room, indicators and updates.
Are you thinking to earn money copy his trades? Maybe some month you can earn, the great majority not. Jason upload in Youtube his best trades. He tells the bad trades do not show because He wats to tell us the importance of risk/reward ratio. He forgets the importance of ratio wins / lost trades. Jason usually put stops 10 or 13 ticks in CL. If one session like yesterday loss 4 trades, You loss -104 ticks (2 contracts x52 ticks). If there is a good session He will earn +60,+80 +100 ticks. Unfurtunaly there are more sessions like this one. If you do a trade with +120 and do ten or more with -13 finally you will loss. Not all is risk/reward ratio. You must to be a good trader.
He inform you about Topsteptrader acoount. It is a big option in my opinion, but is very complicated to be a funded trader copying to Jason. The other day Jason sent us an email saying three members have reached to be a funded traders. How does it cost? I started with a Trading Combine account 50k. I had to reseted it 5 times copying his trades (5×200= -1,000$). Finally if You reach the next step Trading Preparation you can reset several times to reach Funded Trader. When you are Funded trader there is not reset. If you loss 2000$ or 1,000$ (very easy copying to Jason) in one day, you are out. You have to start again.
You do not know if Jason trades with real account or not. Really on the website with samall letter says “results with demo account ”
Summarizing, I do not advise this live room.
Using the TST trading combine is no way an indication you can be successful.
I myself have passed 4, been funded 3 times, got 4 other people funded, got my 16 year old son funded, only to have everyone eventually bail on that program because the business model is flawed. Everyone quickly figured out “What the fuck am I doing paying $85 /month in fees, plus commission, to have them take 20% of my profit, when I can just trade myself and keep everything and pay nothing for exchange fees” .
And its not like you need a ton of money.. You only need about 6-10k to trade 3-5 contracts of just about everything but some of the metals.
Hey Tom, when you got your 16 year old son funded, did you use his social or TIN? Is that the minimum age? Or was there other paperwork or documentation that was needed?
Hey Emmett More, just trying to reach out and get some criticism. Couldn’t find where I can private message you, but I am open to feedback from everyone. Possibly trying to start a trading chatroom service in the future, but we will see.
Trying to understand the format that individuals would like to see for a video.
So far I have a setup where I first talk about the Aftermarket that discuss what the strategy told me where to enter, place stop, and take profit. Then I show the trade in a fast forward. Please give me feedback where I can improve. I am trading 1 Contract. (Testing if I can make a 5K account to go to 10K then 20K, etc)
Also Emmett, if I posted in a wrong area, please let me know the correct location to post. Thank you.
I apologize if I talk too fast, or if I include too many ums, ands, run-ons, I am not used to being a public speaker, didn’t finish college, trying to keep the video short and simple. If you hear baby noise, sorry about that as well, if it seems like I am whispering, im trying to keep my voice down and not wake them up, also if you hear baby einstein the background noise, they are on netflix watching it lol.
Losing Trade 6/15/2017 : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dssztbyj4BU
Winning Trade 6/16/2017: https://youtu.be/1uYoz601D0M
“Possibly trying to start a trading chatroom service in the future”
Man o Man, I cannot believe I missed this post. Once I would like to be wrong about a shill. But I must be a shill radar. Now I fully understand your love of TS. You want to pass a combo to use it to promote your TR just like the Oil Trader does. I clearly see the scamming picture now.
You know what is funny, your videos are pretty good especially for someone that supposedly just started trading. I know I’m going to get ripped a new one for saying that. Anyway, the point is that these TR’s are all smoke and mirrors. A good trading room will be boring and make money for their customers. Unfortunately, that business model is extremely flawed. It doesn’t exist over the long term. As the room experiences draw downs a trader will lose confidence in the method and stop following the moderator. Most of the time the TR’s will start averaging down or create numbers out of thin air. Before you even begin to think about creating a trading room, pull together a string of positive months with real money which is much harder than you think.
Thanks for the Feedback Mike M.
Also message for Rob B, Mike M, Cyn, Tom.
If I was a new trader, looking to seek a good system and have a minimum wage paying job and looking to get into day trading. Say I have 5k – 10K of startup capital and want to learn a good strategy or community to get good information.
What direction or advice would you provide this person?
Some advice on a direction to get started, not give up on this dream and keep working that job @ Rob. (^-^)
Thanks,
Much Appreciated!!
Oh yeah Mike, can you please fill me in what is TS and TR.
Also, just wanted to know since you seem like a trader that has been around possibly in these chatrooms, or groups, or what not. What are some content that you would like to see included in the video that you would find beneficial?
Also to clear up the misconception of me being a brand new trader. I still consider myself brand new, always in a position to learn, been trading for like 5 years, but its more like learning for the first 3 years with wins and losses, and finally getting it on my 4th year, so I can’t really say I am a good trader, but always in a position to improve.
Had to unlearn old trading habits back when I joined a prop shop and traded Citi Group when it was at like 2.34 and we were trading for half ticks with the high frequency strategy and using a multitude of routes, with WTS, like 6 months prior to Citigroup having a reverse split and it popped the price to like 30.00. The liquidity then moved around to Siri, BofA, and others I am not aware of but that was when the manager decided to teach swing and momentum trading, which eventually led me to fade out.
I personally came pretty close to blowing up my savings of 50k trying shit. I thought I had it figured out on some days, and others, I would get all depress and couldn’t figure it out. Then eventually I said enough was enough, and searched to get proper education, I joined TST back when they had TST University Course with Bob Iaacinno who sometimes is featured on CNBC, and Mike Arnold, but 6-9 months of the program and they discontinued it, then I jumped over to TimSykes, tried to trade his picks, but the gap in prices were just too huge in these blue chip stocks. I did ride his call on El Pollo Loco when they went public. I was one of his challenge students, and also swing trader subscriber, I was happy that I was able to break even with his calls, but it took like 5 months.
When I met Tim Sykes in Vegas during his seminar that my brain started to filter and sort out what I need to do. After the seminar and meeting all these wonderful ppl, I stopped following Tim after paying 5k and applied the philosophy I learned from there back to what I learned in TST University with Bob and Mike was put them together to understand what I was really doing wrong and started to really map it like a business and focus on the game plan. I took out all additional information to make it as simple as possible, broke down excess components of the strategy that would hinder my decision making, and kept all variables constant in order to create a consistent average. Not the greatest average, but with wins and losses, 500/ week on 1 contract in a months period.
During the beginning of the year in January, I had a really rough month, I question was that the end of my strategy. I later found Jason Love form Oil Trading Group, subscribed to him, was OK, and not so OK. But I eventually revert back to doing what I should and need to be doing. I back tested my strategy for January and February, and realized I would have been up, even though January would have brought my average down to 500/week. Thanks to Trump in office, haha jk jk. Nothing the do with him, the market will do what the market will do and Oil was just idling with OPEC, and US producing shale.
2 months ago, a friend called me out and said teach me how to trade, I want to quit my job. I said, I don’t really want to. He then called me out on it. I then said ok, as long as he doesn’t quit his job yet. That bastard quit the moment I complied. I said let me think about how to go about it, and 5K was a number I came up with and something reasonable for him to start with. I said in 10 weeks, we will grow your account from 5K to 10K, ,and I told him to document everything as a new trader that doesn’t know anything about trading. I said I will do it with you too. It seemed reasonable for us since my average is 500/week 10 weeks would be roughly 5k. I said give or take if we don’t get there in 10 weeks, don’t be mad, it might be 9 I jokingly said. I think since his account got funded with TradeStation and getting the approval, it has been about 3 weeks. I also informed that I will take this challenge with him.
Initially we tried TD Ameritrade because I use the Thinkorswim platform. But, he couldn’t get approved for futures because they say he lacked proof of experience or documentation to unlock Margin Level 2, Options Level 2, and he had to take a test, in which I don’t think I know the answers to, so he switched over to TradeStation.
1st week: Down (Learning new Platform and He was a bit nervous, Getting in and out of trade and being selective.)
2nd week: Up (Starting to see and understand what we were doing)
3rd week: Down
4th Week: Up (Its this week, I think he is up over a little over 1,000 Overall not just for week four but overall.)
So we are behind schedule but moving forward.
Hope that gives you some perspective as to why I did those videos that way.
Also my friend wants to start a business with chatroom / trading service. So I had learn how to use these videos or functions, I was using the Xbox Live with windows 10 to record videos, no Camtasia for me lol, ended up using Loom, and he would send me videos of Warrior Trading, and said look at his setup and website its so good. In which his video kept popping up on my facebook, so I decided to do some searching and reviews, stumbled onto this site, and was curious if I can find anything on OTG, and I did. Then reading the reviews it also talked about Topsteptrader as well.
Shorting Oil on this EU Session Open, Lets see if it goes to target.
7.7.2017.
Short
Entry: 44.90
Stop: 45.02
Target: 44.74
R/R: 120/160
Best!!
You are obviously on a very long journey already. I know how that feels. If you can grow your account in that short of a time period then I don’t believe you will need Top Step. IMO your profit equity curve never seems to slope upward in a smooth manner over time, there will be days of draw downs. That’s reality not fantasy. When I realized that I didn’t have to trade everyday in order to be profitable at the end of the month, I had better months.
This is what I think everyone has been trying to tell you. The market or just a realistic trader especially one that hasn’t been consistent for a year will have draw downs or just days where they will scratch. If you force your method then you are destined to fail in trading and especially at Top Step. Honestly, most people here are so tired of these vendors taking advantage of people that are just trying to make some money. No one wants you to lose money. At the very least you should truly have a plan for yourself. How much time, money and effort you are willing to sacrifice before you move on. By the way, you should really keep fees down because they will eat away at anything you earn. If it works come back here and let everyone know.
By the way, I use to believe these fantasy numbers that trading rooms would report. As a result, I always believed there was something wrong with me. This blog has proven time and time again that the real world of trading is much different. Keep reading and you will be surprised. good luck.
Thanks for your Input Mike,
The plan that I am working towards for this new trader is to make 10K with topstep, withdraw 5k @ 0 commission and put it into a different brokerage.
I then said trade the brokerage account with a different plan and it will be like your IRA Account for retirement money or emergency money.
Keep the topstep account open and trade 1 contract on it and let it be your limited income account.
Sure it is now considered my own money and I am also giving them 20%. Truth is the money really isn’t yours unless you withdraw it. That is with any brokerage account.
You can say in the long term you don’t need the TST account. But to me I look at is as another trading account that could generate income.
Yeah, I understand what it is like when making some money is so difficult. So I plan to offer services to guide and show people. I just honestly didn’t think it was attractive with a low average of 500/week, but it’s realistic.
I don’t know how much more proof I need, I show my trading screen in real time, show the PnL, I even called out my trade this morning in real time and I took a snapshot of it going to the target as well.
I’m starting to think the real traders here are the one with the most negative votes hahaha.
But it’s all good. Yeah, I have had some tough weeks, but overall at the end of the month, I will be up.
So do you only trade for a living or do you have a job as well?
Best!!
You say, “Yeah, I understand what it is like when making some money is so difficult. So I plan to offer services to guide and show people. ”
You are sounding more and more like Alex Sobeil or whatever the heck his name is.
LOL you guys are cute, Love the entertainment, but hey Rob I will follow those instructions. Thank you!
Best to you guys Trading!!
I think one day someone is going to come back to this site with an equity curve that goes straight up with verified brokerage statements. As a result, Rob just might collapse with a smile on his face. Big foot does exist. Honestly, he will be happier for that person than that person’s family. I love the debates on this site. No bs, just honesty and great entertainment. You see, no need to pay a TR for financial entertainment. You get all here for free.
It is possible. As I have stated these TR teach people to trade white noise and you will get a Gaussian distribution. So with time less and less are profitable. I think the odds of making money playing powerball are greater than day trading the way most TR teach you, but someone wins powerball.
I looked at Kel’s videos, and having been on TOS myself for several years, it’s really nothing more than showing a journal on a detached window where it doesn’t show if it’s a sim or live dom. Past journals on the ecuadorian beachforum often had “rockstars” as RobB termed who did >occasional< and probably handpicked "live" looking videos. Sometimes these videos a handful are enough to attract a portion of the next new generation of hapless new retail aspirants. This isn't anything new. It's all been done before by many shams over and over for the past several years. MikeM, I hear your willingness to be open and to be generous with Kel's story. I was once like that too in my early years on the feeforum where we kool-aided members would gawk with awe at these outgoing "rockstars" showing off their journal making +20 ticks on crude sometimes with the occasional videos letting the market fast foward with music. And I read the extra backstory comment about how Kel went to a prop and then topstep , a bit of turn with Sykes etc. Ok, assuming he's not a shill for topstep, taking all the posts together it unfortunately still sounds very shilly, what with asking us how to start a trade room, or making accouncements that they are a new trader, but now "not so new" and all this retail trading optimisim. Where have we heard this before..remember Alex Sobiel/Zeilaff? Then this about the friend quitting his job and wanting to start a traderoom. Geez, it sounds like it could very well be likely Kel and his buddy coudl very well start their own trading room and like other shills that have posted before here in comments of reviews past, play around with the idea, and try to to sound like they are on the reader's side, particularly those who have not woken up from the kool-aid, that are still not getting what RobB , the others and myself are saying about this wild west of snakeoilers retail shams after our years of being churned or fooled ourselves, and that's where the danger lies with new readers who are not wised up or those who are snatched up before they even happen to come across tradingschools. btw, TS in these recent comments seem to have been used for "TopStep" but in the past TS or ts also could well be used as the acronym for "Tradingschools". I don't know, I admit it's possible this guy is just an overly optimistic guy who wants to start a trading channel or site or whatever. But like what's been said, the site and probably a new retail business complete with the usual monthly churn fees won't be taken seriously by trading schools unless real proof shown, a live dom of a live trading account consistently shown. Still, the bar has been set so low. So if the new tradingroom host can manage to show a disciplined "breakevener" performance on an expendable live account trading so small size like the "watchhimtrade" kid, it could still be touted as a 4-5 star esteemed tradingschools reviewed site. It will also have to a pass ts "probationary" period where an update review will pass another judgement and then well ok, the site could gain some business and then compete with the other "breakevener" sites touted on tradingschools for a slice of the monthly churn pie albeit with marginally better value than the usual or worst 99% other scams. For all new readers still in stages of the kool-aid , best advice is heed the warnings , and good luck on your continuing respective retail trading journeys.
dtchurn, I hear you and Rob B on every single point. I have to admit the hangover from the kool aid has been slow to dissipate. If you read my posts, I now believe brokerage statements alone are necessary to verify past performance. It’s f’in crazy how many Sykes wanna be are out there looking to dupe the sheep into the monthly churn. There are so many younger dudes being shammed by the easy riches pitch. So many just don’t want to hear the reality of trading not being a daily salary, but more accurate way to gauge is by ROI. I view the many you tube videos of millionaire challenge hopefuls that just convince themselves that it will come and ignore the cold hard statistics. It’s crazy listening to these TR’s post outrageous results with a straight face while the slaughtered defend them to the death. AMG, Armo, Clay Trader, Stock Whisperer all without a hint of verifiable performance and more and more pop up everyday.
As far as the possible shills, I may still need to develop my radar. If they are sincere, I wouldn’t want them to go through the ordeal of being lied to about the realities of day trading while the circus is in their pockets at every turn. I read one the posts hear stating that it can turn into a nightmare very quickly, so true. I have seen pros from the pit go electronic and not have the self awareness to understand it wasn’t going to work and they lost big. If they are not shills then maybe there will be that one to prove us wrong about TST. I can see why everything must be questioned now.
Mike,
One of the things I keep telling folks these scammer devils do not wear horns or carry pitch forks. If they did they would be easy to spot. Instead they come across as sincere and have stories about how they just want to help others like Kel. The TR operators that conned me had some of the best stories about how they made it as a day trader and wanted to help others by giving back. But ask them for proof and they never respond. I see the pattern repeat again and again. Same at BMT where they setup fake journals and even do videos. How could they just take all that time to fake everything. Because they eventually become vendors and building up their sucker’s base. Many already are vendors and want to keep the dream alive. And it is always the same story like the last post that Emmett respond to in another thread, telling Emmett the vendor does not need to show any proof. Yea they do.
Reagan said Trust but verify, but in this business it is Don’t believe a word they say without proof.
These vendors money is on the line and posting here and elsewhere is free advertisement for them.
Thanks MikeM. It was interesting to see how your views on this site and the retail “traducation” industry gradually evolved to where now I would say you’ve completely woken up from the effects of the kool-aid like the rest of us veteran readers and commenters. I’m glad you’ve realized the absurdity of all this shilling and how these shams have gotten away with it for so long. And your comments and more open and generous tone are well appreciated on the comments as I tend to be one of those quick to get caught up more in the emotional witchhunt furor of calling out these shams and shills. And you perspective and experience of having been involved in the real wall st. is surely appreciated. As for the current shilling, I would admit there is a slight possibility imo that Kel and Francis could be for “real”. But it’s slight because like RobB mentioned, we’ve seen too much of the same thing and similar claims and comments with similar approaches. Here’s another related sign that’s kind of in the back of everyone’s mind, but sometimes hard to realize or remember in the moment. Notice how Kel and Francis pretty much came about almost the same time where RobB suspected they are the same person. In addition to that , veterans to shilled advertisements often see the same kind of “starting progress”. Francis is excitedly telling us he can make 9k each week and is so sure of passing the combine. Ok, nice , (RobB and I have seen so many of those rockstar journals on bmt pretty much claim to do the same thing for years on beachforum). So why is the claims and boasting always so immediate and “just starting”? What about those supposed dream traders who got successful two years ago if they existed and are now making millions a year? It’s always the same from these shills and testimonials. Such as “I’m ‘newly profitable ‘now'” or “i’ve been trying to trade for 5 years now, but now I’m ready to pass and be successful with topstep and beat their combine with flying colors immediately”. Or testimonials on a typical sham site. “I’ve been with guru-“x” for a month. my first few weeks I made “x” money! im so exited”. And every new sham site often has these “beginner” or “just beginning” shilled or fake testimonials. or even remolded and revamped sites. Some of the video testimonials can be seen migrating to another sham site to do another “starting new and feeling successful” student video site. Sorry for rambling, but I hope the point is clear. There is never a successful student whose been with the site for years and trading the dream trading for a living because the site is just a monthly churn site with shilling as part of it’s advertising or shilled comments on tradingschools in an attempt for manipulative damage control to try to mitigate the exposing effect and traction Emmett’s site has been to the retail trading industry succesfully upsetting the cart. Some of these legacy shams had completely gotten away with it with paid vig to have ripoff reports deleted, and ad sites to hide the complaints on websearches among other myriad web marketing tricks. When I was first saw this site for the first time after having been duped by Ross or WarriorTrading, I was shocked and then elated there was finally a review site on a mission to call out the scams, not just a few, but as many as it could. So I guess to sum up, if there was a dream trader out there who lucked out on a workable trading venture, would they be promoting a “trading school” site after years of successfully trading for a living and claiming this so and so site was instrumental to their success? I’d highly doubt it. They would probably never mention anything about their successful trading to anyone except close friends or family much less teach strangers or the public their methods. Only those less scrupulous and probably having lost certain ethical and business princples would attempt to turn their failed trading “career” into another monthly churn shamshow for income. Ok, if someone actually magicially claimed to be proftiable for over a year, they could already show proof instead of promoting Topstep. But we never get that from shills. They always when “someday” when they get a hundred k to trade with. It’s always after more combines in the case of TST, or for a typical sham room, always after they pay more of a hotdog combo for multiple k$ for the ‘secrets’ of trading. We still wait to hear from successful comments from those who bought those expensive hotdog packages. but what Emmet usually gets are sad stories of savings decimated and more cred carts maxed, etc.
The funny thing is I was just arguing with some less than a month ago, I think James or James II saying the same things Kel is saying. Want to start a TR and making $500 a day and so forth. Yet like you say they are all just now miraculous profitable. Where is the guy that was miraculous profitable 3 months ago so he can show proof of his claims. Somehow they do not exist. No you get Kel talking about years of trading and yet shows Sim trading results.
This whole industry is beyond sickening. If Kel was real he do exactly what I said, JUST OPEN YOUR DAMN TRADING ROOM and then show Emmett proof of your claims. Personally I think Kel is James and so forth and so forth, as none are around long enough to ever show any proof. Seriously what else does anyone need to know.
I as I say again and again I would love one of the BS con artist to prove me wrong. It would not be hard to do. Take Francis for example. Just take the TST combo and show all your results here and then when you are swinging those 15 cars in 1 month trading live show some proof. It really is not hard to shut me up. Yet the fact none can do it speaks volumes about these scammers.
Yesterday in the FantasyTradesRoom dot com we made $1000 in /CL using a 2 tick stop. We increased the target to 4 ticks because the action was so good. I told you that in our superstar TR, we are taking money out every day like a salary. If you do not join us, you are missing the boat. Just you wait and see.
In one of the trades that went against us, we kept adding cars as we were losing, until the trade reversed and we got our winning trade. Now, remember that even though we were using a 2-tick stop, this stop was not hit even though at one stage we were down by a full point. We just keep averaging down until we were profitable.
We are super traders! All you people who cannot trade, just shut up and register in our TR. Easy peasy.
Don’t forget to add just because other losers can not do it does not mean you cannot. That is a classic.
It is insane how easy it is to believe that you are the problem and not the method. Without validating your strategy with back testing or paper trading without generous fills then you will keep shooting in the dark. After failing at trading miserably on my own , I was duped twice by a trading room and and an educator, but it didn’t take me long to realize that these guys were worse than me and I was better off on my own. However, I still thought there were some rock star sites that may know what they they were trading. I just didn’t want to risk on being duped again. Until this blog, as crazy as that sounds, I finally see the depth of the problem. when I realized that the only way to be profitable IMO is to create a strategy that you tested and believe in. A strategy that you will not struggle with or something that goes against your personality.
The truth of the matter is when I worked on the sell side of the business for many years, I realized very early that you can’t trust the big names as well. It was proven time and time again that research was comprised as pay for play type deal. Keep the buy rating on a stock so we continue to receive their business through IPO’s and so forth. Even at the very top they want you to trade and trade often which is not necessarily in your best interest. It has changed quite a bit with managed accounts, but it’s the same concept with these TR’s.
Once you start thinking for yourself, you can improve. I believe Emmett created a blog that can help people avoid crushing financial disasters. So I say, keep calling everyone out and if I seem gullible please make sure I know it. For anyone to think it’s ok to lead regular folks to their financial grave is just beyond me. I hope there is change one day where they are all handcuffed and thrown in jail. Just read that guy or lady guruleaks1 on twitter and you will see how bad it is for retail out there.
I
“I don’t know how much more proof I need”
Like most con artist you have shown ZERO, NADA proof of anything. All you do is talk about trading, which any TR con artist can do. If is easy to trade sim and then forgot about your losers. There is only 1 think that matter and you just keep glossing over it and that is: TO SHOW REAL LIVE BROKERAGE STATEMENTS AS PROOF. Anything else is the Kel circus act.
How dare you ask for proof?
Remember that if you do this kind of thing about our TR, one of the conditions to be there is for the sucker to hire vagabonds to beat you up if you dare to say bad things about our superstar trading room?
Notice how because I am setting up the room to help traders, it is no longer MY room, but instead OUR room? Be very careful. The vagabonds are waiting.
We are going to make minimum $600 a day like a salary, trading /CL, starting with a 3k account. Our statements speak for themselves. Why do you need any brokerage statements?
More BS post by Promoter Kel trying to get suckers to join his TR without showing any proof what so ever he can actually trade profitable. Instead nonsense about how he is helping other traders. Claims years of trading yet show no proof of trading profitably. Truly Mind Boggling.
WHERE THE PROOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Oh I forgot that is the one thing you cannot show.
I swear I hate con artist shill like you, posting lies and looking to scam people. I really hope the regulators come down and throw people like you in jail where you belong.
BTW, you have to show proof for anyone on this blog to take you seriously. That’s just the way it is. You can thank the deplorable individuals that are out to bilk the uninformed. Anything short of verified brokerage statements will not hold any validity in this day in time. It is a free for all with online trading vendors slaughtering the herd at any chance.
Kel, TS stands for Trading Schools.org and TR stands for trading rooms. They are just acronyms.
Kel,
You keep making Antidotal post and post talking about trading. It is easy to scam people talking about trading. What is not easy is to make a live trade with actual profit target and stop losses and trade profitably. Here is my suggestion. Quit talking about opening up a Trading Room (TR) and just DO IT!!!!!
I will even help you out and give you instructions on how you can make a fortune with your TR:
1) Go to gotomeeting or other similar site and setup an account,
2) Actual open a futures trading account so you can trade live (I believe you have never taken a live trade),
3) Start your TR and actually live trade your trade calls,
4) Email Emmett and once I again I will help you out with the email
“Emmett, I am the real deal. I am not a scammer, but an actual profitable day trading running a TR. Here is a link to my TR and I will send you my brokerage statement everyday showing my live trading results and after 3 months I will skype with you and log into my brokerage account or tell my broker to allow you to see my true brokerage account as proof I actually traded live and profitable. Now for me 3 months of profitable trading is statistically meaningless, but heck Emmett will even accept less.
5) Pay the Emmett Vig,
6) Get a 5 Star Review,
7) Enjoy all the customers you will get.
It is that simple. Well it is that simple if what you claims is true. But again that is the hard part. Bragging and make nonsense claims is easy, proving your claims not so much.
So you should easily be able to have all this setup by early next week so we should be seeing your 5 star review soon.
Seriously anyone want to take a side bet on this scammer every showing any proof of his claims??????????????????????????????
Honestly, I don’t know how anyone can counter any of the points Rob has made in his last 2 posts. Sometimes it is hard to accept the reality after you were mislead for so long, but the cold hard truth about trading is dismal. Yes I’m sure there are the rare few, but I also bet they are properly funded and trade a proven set of strategies that they recycle day after day. I would never tell anyone to quit there job unless they have proven over time that they can consistently take money out of the market and weather the draw downs that are always going to come. Don’t let these con men take your money and sanity. It can turn into a nightmare very quickly. Learn to trade and invest when you have enough disposable income to do it properly. I would say after you have a retirement account then start the investment/trading process. These TR’s all want your monthly fee along with whatever else they can sell you. The sad part is they are after the young guys that are just looking to make their way in the world. Nothing wrong with being young and hungry, just a breathe and think it through. You will thank yourself in the future.
Hey Thanks for the Pointer Rob!!
Sadly, you have ignored everything I said. But I appreciate the sarcasm.
“What direction or advice would you provide this person?”
I would not advice them to waste their money in TST which was designed rules for you to fail while they make their money off fees.
I have given advice in many long post throughout this blog. First I would tell them not to join any TR where the operator does not show actual proof they can trade profitably. And I am sure that will eliminate your TR to be. What these people teach is fantasy to scam you into a monthly churn.
That dream you talk about turns into a nightmare as many have lost their life saving to scammers like you. Again you can read those stories throughout the post.
In stead of fantasy dreams folks need to realize the real world of trading and have real expectation, including being properly funded, the fact they will have drawdowns and they are not going to make some unrealistic ROI.
I read Francis post and I hope to God he is a shill. Seriously he sounds like he does not have a dime to his name except to pay for 1 combo and then he will:
1) Pass the 150K combo on first attempt,
2) Pass the FTP,
3) With the little money TST risk, he will swing 15 cars (which I do not think they allow) and make a fortune in 10 days with no drawdown,
4) And become rich
You call that a dream. I call it nonsense and he will lose the little money he had. Sure you can say well he at least went for his dream, but TST is laughing all the way to the bank on fools like this.
So yes for someone like this I would say if you hate your job go get skills to get a better job and actually learn to save and invest.
What?!!?
What is good about a commentary and a statement, “a trade setup here and I took it” with absolutely no description of WHY there is a trade setup?
How is the watcher supposed to learn his fantastic trading room method, when absolutely no method is ever described? By a Jedi mind meld?
That was just as bad as the nonsense that I saw in Alex Sobiel’s so called TR. Whew.
If he is a shill then he deserves every negative comment, but if he’s some young guy looking to improve himself then nothing wrong with trying to get him off the hamster wheel. With some positive comments, maybe he would heed the advise of everyone here. I’m not going to bash the guy for trying. That’s just me. When someone posts here they have to be prepared for criticism. I think he has enough information now to make his own decisions.
As for TopstepTrader, I love what they do, in the beginning, I felt I was spending a lot of money paying for Combines, breaking rules, and buying another combine. I said why don’t I just trade with the money I am spending. Did that, took some huge losses, because I wasn’t as disciplined as I should be and eventually understood how beneficial it can be to work through a strategy. Funny how I got my first funded account after 3 months paying for combine and going through the ftp to blow it up and broke rules when I went live.
Did it again, but this time more on the conservative aspect. It is important that you plan out your risks for the day, for the week, how many trades you are able to trade with your daily stop loss without putting your account in a bad position.
I am now able to pass combines within a month and sometimes get a bit more agressive because I don’t want to pay the monthly and get it into FTP.
But overall, do well, you get funded, show them you can trade consistently and even if you break a rule that isn’t too vital, they will still let you keep trading. If you are discipline and do well, they prefer to have you keep trading rather than to take away your account. Just depends on the severity. I recall I left an order out and left, and I got a call from Mick who told me that I had an order on pass the close and I was like Oh I am sorry, I wasn’t aware, he just informed me to not let it happen, but I was upset that my positive pnl went to negative … ahh that was so frustating … so when you close the program, make sure all your orders are closed. But … G2G hope the information is helpful, I think now TST changed again allowing FTP to reset so you don’t get sent back to Combine when you mess up.
Interesting as I have yet to met a trader thought TS was worth a damn. There was even a thread with a survey down here. So I will just copy and post what was already written there. And I would love for you to explain what possible advantage TS offers.
I have heard many traders say TS is a fee making scam and they have set up a system that virtually everyone will fail at in order to generate more fees. It seems TS is setting up rules designed to sucker in underfunded traders and just keeps dangling a carrot in front of them with one bogus fee after another.
“Being with TST is more or less self-funding after you have earned the first few $ as you can not draw down more than below the trailing drawdown, so you basically risk money you earned in the account after the initial small gains – TST only actually fund you with a very small amount, which any talented trader wouldn’t pay a percentage of their earnings to get – the only scenario I can see is someone having 0 $ and want to trade, and they should, as soon as the trailing drawdown passed starting balance, leave TST and trade their own account.”
Hey Rob B.
I see and understand where this is coming from. So I posted somewhere below a picture of the Funded Account and I will re-post at the bottom of this text. So the process works like this before where they were taking 35% in commissions of the profit? I think that system was adjusted like 3-4 years ago where they now take 20% overall on the withdrawal and the first 5,000 is commission free. The Fees that I paid, for the 50K is But, $165 per month that is if you don’t pass the combine in a month which most people should be able to trading 1 Contract to make $3,000 at the end of 20 Trading Days roughly a month. Also, if $165 is too much for a combine, I mean they are funding you and will eat the losses if you mess up initially when you go live. Say it takes you 2 months to pass it so you paid $165 x 2 = $330 still not bad. How much is 1 /CL trade based on profit will provide you? IMPORTANT, if $165 is too much I would suggest waiting for their 20% Codes for Just the first month rolls out. Lastly, the rules/parameters they layout is simple, just don’t break them. I mean yes sometimes they are easy to break or that we are not aware and we pay the price. But … imagine if you were working at a hedge fund and the manager said Don’t Fking do this or you will get fired, the same aspect to me but in a nicer way. Usually, the people who break the rules end up losing money rarely does a person who breaks the rule are profitable, but in some rare occasion, it does happen.
Back to the Fees: After you pass the Combine you go to the FTP which you are no longer getting charged, the requirements for FTP used to be easier, now the target amount is the same as combine so it might take slightly longer but it is available and they implement the weekly stop loss rules to that applies to you when you are live trading. Managing risk is important.
Passing the FTP you go Live, Sign Documents and submit your Identification, tax forms etc. Their monthly fee is $85. Not bad for Data fees. If you are using Ninja Trader is $250 per 3 month lease or you can buy the program for $1000. Or use a different platform of your choosing that TST allows.
So far say it too me 2 months to pass combine then go to FTP then live.
165 + 165 + 85 + 85 + 85 + 250 = 1,135 say you go live for 3 months.
Well you will have 3 months to make 1,135 in order to break even.
If you happen to lose 2,000 live, they will cover your losses and you would not have to pay out of pocket so that would not affect your cost to operate the “business.” If you fall into messing up initially but you informed them you want to Re-Dev = they will give you another shot free of charge or maybe charge $1 on your card to go from Combine to Live.
After you make your initial 5k withdrawal in live, they will then apply the 20% fee in commissions.
Yes it would be smart for a trader take the money they make from TST and eventually opening another account elsewhere, because in TST if you were to hit a 0 Balance after being profitable, your account will get closed.
If you have a job or have money saved up this feat might not be so attractive. But, if you didn’t have a great strategy or wanted to test it out, its not so bad to see if it would work or not.
Game Plan, Mapping Out a Plan, these are Key to your success and future.
For instance, with my 50k Account, I cannot trade more than 1 contract based on my strategy, I will make my first 5k withdrawal when I make 10K with TST. Yes, it is taking forever, yes I get undisciplined from time to time and lose more than I should when I don’t follow my own rules. My first 5K withdrawal, I will most likely deposit to another brokerage as my retirement, but the difference is that I will have an account where I can apply a different game plan and compound my earnings so I am able to trade more size. But, not with TST, at that time I will compound earnings/profits in that account and use my TST account as a source of income for my living expense and probably won’t have to drive for lyft and uber.
I find it better than these ride sharing services. They take 25% I purchased the car, say its a used one 10k, I pay for tax title license, insurance, gas etc. I put in my time I get paid. Depreciation, wear and tear. Oh I get the 500 start up bonus. All at my expense. TST, 20% after 5k withdraw.
These are the current circumstances that I am living in and some others may be in a better position with a degree, a job, etc. But TST offers a service I find beneficial if you don’t have a lot of money, that is able to get me moving forward towards a goal.
But hey Rob B.
This is just for discussion and I appreciate you bringing up those concerns. I have nothing but love out there for traders in this tough industry, especially with a lot of sham and fluff, and bs services out there.
Sorry if my topics are like all over the place, my ADD does that to me.
Best Mate!!
Did you read the top step Survey results? I include the link below.
In that article Emmett’s survey showed 79% could not get funded after they spent on average $1,145 per person.
And if you get funded the max drawdown is $2,000. So Top Step after making a fortune on all the failed traders takes an initial risk of $2000. That’s it!!!! And it gets worst as that drawdown is only good for 10 days. If you make no money in 10 days then you have to start all over. In fact once again on the survey of the few that got funded the average earnings was a negative $900 per person.
And if you luck out and make any money TS then only allows you to lose your own money. They take zero risk!! But even though they take zero risk, if you make any money they take their cut right off the top. This is just one big scam IMHO.
Again I ask you to explain to me how this is a good deal for any trader, because I do not see it.
https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/top-step-trader-survey-part/
Hey Rob, I apologize, I just saw the Link and read it.
I just spent 30 mins writing a very long article about it, tried to attach a photo and it erased everything I wrote. So I am going to summarize.
I am not trying to persuade you anyway to believe they are good or bad. I just want to be informative in a service that they offer. So that I do not criticize anyone for whatever the outcome is for them. I am going to tell you a story about a broke ambitious trader who saw the possibility of what trading can do for him, and a live trader I referred.
I also don’t like to factor in the average of Trader results because each and every trader are different, with different strategies, different knowledge, agenda, plan, disciplines. It’s like looking at college students, if we factor in the average that a 4 year graduate with a degree is considered to be successful as long as they got a job. How much money was spent in school, how much time was invested, how many dropped out, how many graduated, how many stopped, and at the end how many graduated and got a job. The numbers would be ugly as well. I am not calling school a scam, it is a vehicle to get someone from point A to point B, many criteria isn’t factored in such as connections the students have, financial backing, etc. I just don’t want this mindset that they are a scam up front, let’s just look at the raw information. They provide a service, you either like them or you don’t If you don’t or if you tried and it didn’t work out, then it must be the company’s fault.
I was at one point in my trading journey where I never accepted fault for the outcomes. It was never my fault, it was always, the computer, the internet, this brokerage.
Let’s take a step back and look at ourselves as a trader. I am speaking to all the traders out there. Successful or not, I have one question for you. If you had 1 million dollars as an investor, would you give this 1 million dollar to you yourself as the trader you are now? This is a serious question I ask many traders, surprisingly their answers are no, a couple yes. I ask them why, and they will begin to point out their flaws, where they can improve. Trading is an ongoing journey where we learn a great deal about ourselves.
But to proceed forward Rob, let us talk about Trader A.
Trader A Background: Basic knowledge, works a job making $3000 net, an average guy. Heard about trading, got excited went to free seminars, never paid, got some ebooks for free online, went to Barnes & Nobles to do some reading, went to the library to read, go on forums and ask questions. But, he didn’t realize, he was only getting basic tip of the iceberg information, because this was all so new to him. He remembers going to an Investools Seminar to learn about options, and a guy name Angel talked about the #1 Best indicator the MACD (True Story) and he decided to save up some money to open a trading account and trying it.
Trader A Financials:
Income $3000
Bills, Rent, Car, Utilities, Expense -$2000
Personal Expense -$500
Saving -$500
So he allocates $500 a month to save up and start trading. Say he isn’t too smart and went with a traditional brokerage, how many months will he need to save in order to open a regular account with a brokerage, we would assume $10,000 so he would need to save for 20 months.
To open an account with them may not cost a lot of money, but you will need capital in order to trade, here is a blog from nerd wallet. https://www.nerdwallet.com/blog/investing/best-online-brokers-for-stock-trading/
Say he did his homework and saw that it was available for Tradestation for $5000, so he felt that it was manageable to save for 10 months vs. 20 months. So he works hard and in between working he reads more and more information. He tried to do some back testing, but just looked at charts and was a bit unsure.
So this is speaking for myself, I was young, naive, excited, thought I was going to get rich, didn’t do any planning and just wanted to jump into the deep end. Sounds like a new trader that got really excited, read and saw a lot of people online have a lot of success. Opens an account with TradeStation and that feeling was like OMG I am departing with all this hard earned saved money of $5000, that was the real feeling I had back then and now I understand its more like a bank account.
Now with the account open and Trader A is excited and nervous at the same time. He is later informed that there is a monthly fee with TradeStation if he doesn’t fulfill X amount of trades per month. Now Trader A feels obligated and forced to trade to avoid that monthly fee.
After playing around and learning how to use the platform and setting up the charts and applying the MACD Indicator. Trader A feels that he is ready to trade the crossover, first trade initiated and he enters the trade, no stop loss or target is set, but when it went 20 ticks in his favor, he took the $200 profit and is excited. What event just occurred to this brand new trader? A successful trade that he now can anchor to that proves this MACD Indicator works. Say the 2nd, 3rd, trade also works in his favor and he made $400 and $500. He just made $1000+ in 3 days, no matter what anyone tells this guy, he won’t be listening because he has figured it out and is having lots of success. Apparently, that is what it felt like in that moment. As a Trader, we trade to make money, and that is what happened, so what he is doing felt right. Say on the 4th day was his so called “strategy” wasn’t working that day, he saw +100 turn into -200 didn’t have a stop as there wasn’t a need for one, turn into -400, -800, -1200. He said it worked 3 days in a row, there wouldn’t be any reason for it to not work now. Say he was somewhat aware that it was a loser and decided to cut his losses at -1200 where some others might have let that loser keep running. After this devastating loss, he surfs the web, does a massive amount of research to prove that his theory or “strategy” works and he re-affirms himself. He then waits for the next day and he is ready, ready to pull the trigger when the trade was available, he hesitates, misses out, waits for more confirmation. These are all symptoms of an emotional trader. What road will this Trader go down, Most likely blowing up his account of 5K, blames the strategy, the market, the computer, the brokerage for making him take X amount of trades, but it is never his fault.
For someone new like this, I would recommend him to use TST because he is in the market to learn not to make money. I know some of you are thinking you are crazy!! In the market to learn?? Not make money?? While he is working, he is spending a small amount he has saved left over to gain experience. How many people reading this had broken a rule, were undisciplined, taking *testing* trades?? Everyone, including me, has done things like this. I look at it like a school where I am here to learn and pay my dues.
Now onto my friend that I referred to TST. Prior he trades Supply and Demand with Forex, wasn’t having a lot of success so I steered him towards my strategy that I use. It was going to take some time for him to learn, adjust, and unlearn old habits. I said hey, don’t use your capital to trade when you are learning something new, use this service so you are able to get a feel without risking your own money.
Long Story short, it took him a while to adjust his previous strategy to using the new strategy, still from time to time he integrates and tries to explain it to me, in which I tell him its too complicated and I don’t understand it. He started to have success and got big headed, huge ego, I explained look you are walking down a gloomy path if you don’t put yourself on check, he didn’t give much thought and kept doing his thing and was in this euphoric state of mind. He eventually passed the combine on a couple attempts and then FTP then went live. Made 7K in 2 weeks and eventually blowing up his account. I gave him some points during this point but he wasn’t all ears, but after he blew up his account, he said where did I go wrong, I was on a hot streak. I said you let your profits and winning get to your head where you didn’t listen anymore.
He asked me what he should do and I said, well you can give up now, or learn from your mistakes, and start from square one and this time smarter.
He did just that, and I will post his TST PNL for the Combine and then the FTP, you can see where he is actually disciplined and at times where he is undisciplined. It’s funny how traders have these patterns. The key is to recognize it and fix it before it becomes disastrous.
First Image is the 150K Combine he passed it in 12 Days, Started in May 18, 2017
Ended June 8, 2017.
Wining Day % 75.
Largest Winning Day: $3,069.52
Largest Losing Day: $873.12
So he did really well and passed within 3 Weeks. He kinda followed the plan, I was anticipating for him to take a little longer, but he was getting it. You can see that his Ego gets into his head again when he starts trading in the FTP. Which is his 2nd Picture.
Started June 9, 2017
End: Still in Progress
Days Completed: 15
Winning Day % 33
Largest Winning Day: It says 1,597.92
Largest Losing Day: $1,353.02
So after trading 15 days, he is just at breakeven. He started his FTP deep in the Red and then crawled his way back out. -$982.08, $-191.04, -$1222.08, -$1,353.12, -$133.68 from the bottom is where his first start was for trading. He was literally a couple hundred from blowing his account from over trading.
3rd image is follow up from 2nd, I just got the updated version from him.
Once again I am not persuading or convincing anyone what service is good or bad. Rather ask yourself as a trader what do you need to better help you becomes profitable, consistently profitable. We can all blame rules, blames criteria, blame circumstances, but at the end of the day. We executed and entered that trade. Did you have a stop in place, did you have a target, where did the plan go wrong.
No one plans to fail, but we do fail to plan accordingly.
So, Rob, I am sorry if I didn’t answer your question, but I do hope you understand it is a case by case situation especially if it comes to trading. Whether you see it beneficial for you or not, that’s a decision that you have to make. Imagine if I based trading on all the unsuccessful traders out there, I would most likely not be in this industry. But my Plan A of school failed me when I got denied of my Financial Aid, School Loans wouldn’t approve me unless I had a co-sign which I didn’t I was living out of my car at the time, it was merely impossible for me to find a sustainable job period especially when you don’t have a physical address, so I had to get creative.
I always believe when 1 door closes, another or even multiple doors open, we just need to focus on the open ones and not dwell or give most of our attention to the door that has been close.
Best!!
Kel,
When you first posted I was 99% sure you were a shill, but I was still nice, but after you refused to answer any real issues regarding TS and then posted nonsense including this dissertation post I am now 100% sure you are a shill for TS.
Where do I even begin. Seriously comparing BS day trading TR operators whereby not a single one can show any proof of their claims to a college education. You seriously must be kidding. You can actual find college educated people actually working at a job and making a living for what they went to school for. Guess what I got a job in the profession I went to school in.
This last post of yours is just straight out of con artist 101 BS things to sucker in newbies. And I cannot believe you still do not address a single issue brought up about TS. And it is obvious why. When you look at the facts, TS is scam through and through and neither you or any other shill can defend it, so instead it is just silly post about nothing.
In fact I just got to ill and started to scream at the computer with your complete BS post. Seriously writing stuff like:
” Now onto my friend that I referred to TST. ….. I said hey, don’t use your capital to trade when you are learning something new, use this service so you are able to get a feel without risking your own money.”
WTF, are you talking about. TS is nothing but a money generating machine. They will scam your friend out of money going from one combo to another. They will risk his money not their money.
I cannot take it anymore. Someone else can respond to your complete BS nonsense TS promotional post.
Ohmigosh, RobB you are absolutely right. I thought this guy was at first just some kool-aid bystander still stuck in the TS dream in my initial estimation but now you’ve cleared it up and I can see what you’ve flushed out. A shill, or one of the owners of TS themselves. And they’ve exposed themselves with this inane retelling of anecdote about some supposed friend and showing up the TS ‘combine’ posts like this commentary thread was just another page for a TS “results” ad. I wonder how much is subconsciously related to the TS vendor themselves in their life story. The only reason they’re posting all out here now is because the questions and the scammy facts about how TS operates could never be discussed for long and openly on the compromised feeforum since vig deals has probably been paid both ways between TS and the xpat for years now. So as these hamster wheel tells are coming out more in force so do these “shilled” stories get posted soon after not coincidentally in a lame attempt to counteract the exposed truth of the TS scam. The shilled post even sounds like a staff “coach” of TS with their consoling bs to the losing client with “deals” for another hamster whell combine.
Assuming we take the story of the “macky-d”/MACD guy as partly true, it’s a biss poor reinforcement of the TS churn to keep the guy believing his macky-D system has any edge whatsover. So he keep retrying the combine because all the kool-aid and shilled testimonials have fauxly fooled the beachforum readership into thinking there’s some future success of trading at the end of the hamster wheel. Obviously the macky-d system is just losing so the dupe continues combine after combine thinking trading by their “structure” is some kind of badge of progress. The real reason for his next blowup of his account is that he starts making emotional reactional trading mistakes especially after loser after loser. Starts pulling stops, and the worst, averaging down until only a few trades kills the account value from the overleveraging. Yet, another combine is supposed to help “fix” whatever “discipline” mistakes. When the best thing to do would be to ditch the mack-d indicator and ditch TS entirely, take a break and later do it all on sim and self-record how he reacts to losers for starters. It seems TS and it’s combines are also designed, insidiously to bank on periodic lucky streaks of members. Say some member had a good month trading his method, he passes the initial sim and quickly graduates to the live combines. And eventually makes it to the low level live funded account. As you mentioned RobB, TS still gets a chunk of the trader member who is having a lucky streak until he doesn’t. No wonder the “combines” are always just a few weeks or month designed for both monthly churning on the hamster wheel and also to take advantage of any lucky streaks of client in an efficient way. After all, those wised up know a month of good trading can hardly be counted as sign of lasting trading success yet that fact is never addressed by scam vendors and in TS’s case pretty much ignored in favor of monthly churned combines.
The blurb about the friend and his supposed improvement with all the nice verbiage extolling the positives of the TS sham reminds me of Felton. I know Emmett was too lenient, but I bet he didn’t see the post after post by Felton of verbiage fluff in multiple paragraphs and thousands of words in each post attempting to convince and make excuses for his simming sham site. where instead of an avatar with his legacy “friendly old codger” smiling mug, the avatar was a shapely short skirted model lady similar to the CTUfake! theme. The ecuadorian xpat had since probably erased all those posts and took down banned members’ avatars but I’m sure you oldtimers of the compromised feeforum all saw that avatar and the shammy verbiage cess that filled up Felton’s posts.
Anwyays, newbs are much better off reading Emmett’s articles on his own trading advice and his paragraphs on finding an edge such as in the Nison review and the Lincoln list. No wonder TS is worried as tradingschools gains traction.
I must be out of the loop, what does Shill mean? But, if you feel that way, there is really no discussion here but a one sided bias. You feel they will “sham” all their money, and my money as well.
I think it just all comes down to being a better trader.I don’t work, affiliate, or endorse Topstep Trader, I only state the service that they offer that once again is a stepping stone to achieving my goals.
Con Artist 101 =), Yes. I am conning you to do what exactly?
I am curious, do you trade? Or are you a huge critic?
When I launch my services, to teach and help new traders, existing traders, disgruntled traders. I would love for you to drop by and write a review.
Best of luck to you traders out there!!
LOL, I am really amazed by the imagination you guys have. Here I am reading about Jason Love and talking about what he does that throws me off, and I read about Topstep and talk about them real quick, and to see how things escalated.
Oh yeah Rob regarding to if I read the survey.
“In that article Emmett’s survey showed 79% could not get funded after they spent on average $1,145 per person.
And if you get funded the max drawdown is $2,000. So Top Step after making a fortune on all the failed traders takes an initial risk of $2000”
Yes I read it, but I don’t rank myself with the 79%. What stood out to me was this one comment where the guy said
“I have spent around $700. I took $5000 as a withdrawal, and then lost the funded account.”
The only thing for me is that hey he did it, its possible, why not me. I don’t mind spending 700 to make 5k.
Kel,
Again you just post promotional nonsense. How you will be the 1 in 1000 that makes it. But that has nothing to do with TS and its value, which is zero in my opinion. You repeatedly ignore the actual facts and instead make post such as when you pass the combo on your first attempt and so forth. You ignore all the actual facts how TS works. You post
“I don’t mind spending 700 to make 5k.”
As if that is the norm, which it is not. But the fact is just do it and don’t get scammed by TS. What will happen in the real world as opposed to the fantasy promotional world you presented is the trader will blow that $700 via TS scam machine and never get funded. But if you are such a great trader just open an account and start trading. As I have repeatedly pointed out and you have repeatedly ignored (which is why I know you are a shill) is TS only takes a small risk for 10 days (and they are doing it with the money you spent on the combos in the first place). After that all the risk is you money. Actually I hope you are a shill, because otherwise you are very dense that you can not get that simple fact.
And I understand you shock and amazement about the responses here, because this is the first site ever to call this in entire scam industry including TS. You are so use to posting at those fake sites where they take down negative review and so forth. The shills have never experienced a site that actually request these con artist vendors to show any proof of their claims. Try and get TS to show any stats what so ever. They wont because they do not make their money off successful traders but off the fees they charge. TS purposes has setup a system whereby everyone eventually fails.
Requirements are:
1. Unyielding ability to fantasize about coming profits, even after losing many trades in succession.
2. Inability to do simple arithmetic, because 20 losses out of 25 trades must be believed to be a 99.9779% win rate.
3. Willingness to add multiple times to losing positions, until the account is blown up, after which you must replenish it.
4. Willingness to send in multiple checks to the broker, to cover margin calls.
5. Unwillingness to believe that any trading room is teaching fantasy.
6. You have to come to tradingschools.org daily to shill about my magical trading abilities, and the massive profits that you are making.
There you have it in number 1. All the failures do not count. All that you see is that 1 hombre says he turned $700 into $5k. Then you conveniently forget that he says that he blew up, thus, for all practical purposes, confessing that he just had a lucky streak which then dried up, not a viable trading method that continued to make money.
I would say that your logic amazes me, but I am now beyond being surprised by what people choose to believe and do when it comes to the very difficult world of any kind of trading, let alone day trading.
Welcome to Kel’s fantasy world of trading where we turn $700 into $5k with ease. Never mind if we then blow up?
I know I can pass in 20 days if not sooner, what i’m really a bit worried they see my high win rate and try reverse engineer what I am doing? Does anyone else worry about this, that they take their best of the crop and figure out what they are doing??
LOL Francis, make the money first, past your combine, ftp, go live, post your results here. I am curious what else they would have to say.
They would say want I have been saying and what Tom just posted. But you have ignored the facts about TST and instead tell anecdotal stories. He said it better than I can so I will just quote him here.
“What the fuck am I doing paying $85 /month in fees, plus commission, to have them take 20% of my profit, when I can just trade myself and keep everything and pay nothing for exchange fees .
And its not like you need a ton of money.. You only need about 6-10k to trade 3-5 contracts of just about everything but some of the metals.”
Kel, are you just not listening? No one here has any problems with you inquiring about TST or Jason Love, but it seems as if you are not listening to the posts. As a result, some are starting to think that you are a paid endorser of those sites because it has been known to happen before. You truly must understand that this retail trading business is loaded with the worst of the worst con men practicing their craft today. These people are wreaking havoc on the unsuspecting and the unwilling to listen. It has been proven that 99.99 percent of these sites are claiming numbers made up out of thin air. I have been reading your posts and the responses, but it seems as if you just think TS has an ax to grind with TST which just isn’t true. I said this before you, you must have faith in Emmett’s writing if not the poster’s here. If that’s true then read what Emmett’s feelings are on TST. You asked for his opinion before. At the very least take a deep breath and realize no one here will benefit if you succeed or fail. Everyone is just stating the facts about TST, cold hard numbers. When I first started to read this site, I also use to say to myself that this can’t be true. Not everyone is full of it, but I couldn’t ignore the facts.
Thank you Mike M for the kind words. I respect Emmett’s writing, but what would really help me understand and be beneficial for the follow up TST Post would be collecting background and data, trading experience, of the traders who failed and the traders who passed, also if they could post their Combine, FTP, Live results, I would like to see these trading patterns.
For me, I like to find out what the people who failed did, so I can learn from their experience and not make the same mistakes they made.
But in honesty, I would like to hear from the people who passed and even blew up their account live and want to find out what was good and what was bad because they were deeper in the system than the people who just fail combines.
Best to you mate.
This is a good summary that should say it all and put the shilling to rest. Now I wonder about those “testimonials” in the past such as the girl who was trading for a “living” with topstep trading “moving averages”. I remember their site even lamely had “pit” diagrammed rooms of the CME putting up some mic chatter trying to fool the retailers into thinking they were involved in something legit. When I bet any of the topstep staff like you’ve often said, “couldn’t trade their way out of a (wet – from their spilt kool-aid) paper bag”. I recall they were nobodies before they got shilled vendor preferred status on the beachforum.
Kel, Nice detailed information. Seriously considering signing with TST are you happy with them? For $375 I pass the 150K combine they give you 150K to trade with? That’s a pretty good deal sure I could pass it on my first attempt!
Francis, I would suggest you get a 20% off promo code when they have available, I am not sure if they had a July 4th promo. You can call and ask. I am happy with them. For 375 you take a combine which give you a calendar month to trade, and once you pass you go to FTP (Funded Trader Prep) if you don’t pass your first month, you will get billed for the next month. Do understand its roughly 20 trading day, and if there are holidays in between those will count as trading days with low volatility. So plan accordingly and make sure to map out your trading plan with their parameters with their weekly stop loss so you don’t hit that during your FTP. After FTP you get contacted by the funding partner to sign docs and then you go live after you pay for data fees and if you are trading on Ninja $250 for 3 months to lease their program.
Best of Luck Francis.
Look TST has been proven to not be a positive situation to be in. There are some posters of this site that have been on that hamster wheel for many years. It really is simple math. There is no large trading account. They do not take risk in a new trader and most if not all will fail. It sounds like you understand the importance of managing risk now. You are so much better off saving a few thousand for yourself, open up your own account and save money on fees. It all adds up. A new trader should look to have minimal fees for as long as he is growing. Now bear in mind, trading futures with 2 or 3 grand is grossly underfunded, but it is much better than being with a group that never intends for you to grow. Honestly, if you read many traders that posted on this site that use to believe in TST , you will find they all came back with regret for wasting time on the wheel. I know it sounds like some on here are giving you a hard time when actually that is the exact opposite of what they are doing. They are trying to save you time and money. If no one else, read Emmett’s comments on that site. When Emmett makes a mistake, he usually owns up to it. I hope trading works out for you.
Kel. I KNOW I can pass it in one month, I been working on sim everyday for last 5 weeks and doing well I might add. I’ll just rollover to theirs do what I have been doing just like that. Over 30 trading days in most months, 20 days to pass with 10+ day buffer…not a problem on my end.
Where do you find the discount coupons???
ps Emmett your captchas are too hard.
“I KNOW I can pass it in one month,” and “Emmett your captchas are too hard.”
So the capthas are hard but passing TST combo is a piece of cake. They gave me my laugh for the day.
So you are so good with money you have gone your whole life and don’t have a dime saved, except enough to pay for a 1 TST combo and you will be this financial genius Day trader? Interesting!! And if you have saved up any money why would anyone use TST?
It amazes me how all the shill come out at the same time and don’t even post in TST thread. It is like TST said anyone that puts out a good post gets a 10% combo discount.
Hey Francis,
Just plan accordingly, these guys are funny, I would never want to shoot down an ambitious trader. Just because most ppl fail, it is deemed that everyone is going to fail.
Go on their website and you can call them directly and ask if they have a promo, they usually send it out, or jump into their Chatroom as a guest and ask.
I notice a funny comment saying you will go dark for a couple weeks, must be a swing trader, maybe a change in strategy would be a good idea.
Also, their 30 day / 1 month, isn’t really a full month. so its more like 20 trading days. You can’t trade on weekends. But those days count as part of your month.
Have you been trading for a while, I noticed you said you have sim for the last 5 weeks. Maybe backtest a bit as well, wouldn’t want you to dump money without being fully prepared. What state are you living in? $10/hr. I thought minimum wage was $15 now. Other than that, just make sure you follow your own rules, stay discipline, and don’t over trade.
Today I was a bit on the undisciplined side and kept over trading long and short after the EIA number came out, Long Initially then short and got chopped around, I was still able to become profitable at the end of the day with Adequate risk reward.
Here is my undisciplined trade for today, it worked out near the end but I took a loss first.
7.6.2017 Loser Trade: https://www.useloom.com/share/a1f22eb6f1f84540937b7233b2d530b9
7.6.2017 Undiscipline Winner, So this won’t count towards my actual PnL, today was logged as a loser.
https://www.useloom.com/share/e8653dc4e4ac4ce6b9bd6f1d263eab61
Best of luck trading mate!!
Kel, a question for you seem to know a lot about how TST works.
After I pass the combine and move into FTP (funded trader prep), the monthly fee is shut off correct? I have as much time as I need to pass the FTP w/o a monthly fee right? Just get thru the 10-day Combine within 30 days and you’ll not pay more than one months subscription?
Another question about the “150K”: Once I pass both Combine & FTP my account is immediately funded with 45 HUNDREDS DOLLARS? Doesn’t matter what I make in the FTP, I get FOUR THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS, correct?
Thats a pretty good deal imo, for a mere $375 subscription I can get $4500 trading account and 15 contracts??!!!
How can anyone say thats a bad deal? Even taking me 2 months which it won’t.
Can you answer those questions above for me Kel?
“How can anyone say thats a bad deal?”
Are you serious. I suggest you read the topstep thread link shown below.
First you are painting this perfect picture. Yes I know you are a super star day trader. Lets say all goes perfect for you. After you pass your FTP, then yes TST will risk a little money (using all the money most folks spent in fees) for 10 days. You have to build your risk capital in those 10 days. And it is the money you made that is your risk capital after the 10 days not TST money.
Also maybe their rules have changed but you did not use to be able to use 15 cars during those 10 days.
And you do have to pay exchange fees.
If you are this great trader I still do not know why you do not open an account and start trading. It sounds like you just have enough money to pay for 1 combo.
I tell you want just take the combo and then post (preferably in the TST thread) how it goes. Should be interesting.
https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/topstep-trader-update-survey/
You say, ” I have as much time as I need to pass the FTP w/o a monthly fee right?”
No, no, no, no, no.
You have 10 days in FTP. What you make in FTP is absolutely what you get to trade when you go live. Not 4,500 regardless. You make 500 bucks in FTP, then 500 bucks is the max DD you can have when you go live. You get a bigger DD, off with your head and back to the hamster wheel. Another fee. TST wins, you lose!
You say, “Another question about the “150K”: Once I pass both Combine & FTP my account is immediately funded with 45 HUNDREDS DOLLARS? Doesn’t matter what I make in the FTP, I get FOUR THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS, correct?”
No, no, no, no, no.
It absolutely does matter what you make in FTP, because that is absolutely the max that you can ever lose when live.
Hey Francis,
Yes that is correct there will be no monthly fee when you get into FTP.
Before they made the change for a 150k account you had 2 months to make 3k in FTP. They updated the rules to now have unlimited time in the FTP to make 9K but they employ the weekly stop limit of 3k.
“Another question about the “150K”: Once I pass both Combine & FTP my account is immediately funded with 45 HUNDREDS DOLLARS? Doesn’t matter what I make in the FTP, I get FOUR THOUSAND FIVE HUNDRED DOLLARS, correct?”
No, you do not get Funded with $4,500. You will get funded to trade on this live supposed 150k Account. You will have $4,500 as trading room to risk. But not in 1 week, since the weekly and daily stop loss is $3,000. So swinging for the fences with 15 Lots isn’t the best strategy. It is all about risk management and positioning yourself. If you happen to get close to $4,500 of losses say $4,300 within first 10 trading days, contact them and say you want to Re-Dev (Re-development) and you won’t need to pay for Combine or maybe you need to pay $1 and if you pass within the first month, you go back to Live and they wipe the losses. But, if you break the rules before that happen, can’t Re-Dev. If you can’t pass the combine within that first month then you can’t skip FTP and will need to pay another month of whichever combine it cost like you were starting a combine all over again.
So you will not be getting $4,500 Account, but you will have that Risk available, and I don’t think they will let you swing 15 contracts up front.
Best!!
Passed in 12 Days. The rules have changed quite a bit from a year ago, or whenever you guys reviewed it.
First you showed a 50K combo now a 150K combo. I don’t trust anything you post, but according to your post you passed on June 8th so you have already had almost a month of Live Trading or are you still just sim trading. Should that TR be open by now with proof of live trading results??
Until you show proof of live trading results, everything else is smoke and mirrors. And BTW I am convinced you and Francis are the same person working a scam. No one can be as out of touch in reality as he is. I can see the scam not you bragging how great TST is yet never show any proof you can trade profitable and he who apparently does not have a dime to his name and just enough to pay for a 1 month 150K combo passes the combo first attempt then passes the FTP with flying colors, then swings the full 15 cars to make a fortune. Piece of cake.
For sure, what the shills or aspiring affiliaters posting here for TST are not saying is that all the “combines” account “amounts” of $30k, $50k, $150k, whatever are >sim<.
(btw, sounds like the larvae combine of alien races from Half-Life 2, lol!)
It's a long way to go before they even give a lucky streak combin-er real money , even 1k to trade with and it's more than likely from the client's previous hamster wheeled fees of previous combines.
You say, “Before they made the change for a 150k account you had 2 months to make 3k in FTP. They updated the rules to now have unlimited time in the FTP to make 9K but they employ the weekly stop limit of 3k.”
Well, it seems that many changes have been made since one of the TST folks came on here to defend the 10-day FTP, and got told that he was talking nonsense. I stand corrected. I shall probably go and read up on the new conditions, so that I can speak with better information.
Thanks for the update on the current setup.
Kel, thanks a lot for the details. I don’t think Rob is up on the latest rule changes.
Regarding slinging 15 contracts never going to do that. Probably stick to up to 5 at first till I build over 10K in acoount. That first 5K @ 100% is going straight in my pocket before anything else!
The way I see it I’m getting $4500 to play with for a paltry $375 + $85 data fee. Don’t get how these guys here say that’s a bad deal??
What’s the difference between having a $4500 account and having $4500 to risk with? Same thing to me??
Oh puleez, have you not read the review? What you have written is most certainly not what you are going to get. Gosh, is there no way to get people to see the truth. Not even after it is written out in excruciating detail.
Maybe I should go over to the dark side. I should stop trying to open people’s eyes and instead start my own TR. Lord knows, after being on this blog, I now know that there is nothing I can say that is too outrageous to get the suckers (ahem, “valued customers”) to just hand over their money for some of my nonsensical promises.
Let me see. Trade /CL for 3 ticks a trade. 99.9777% win rate, equity curve goes straight up with no dips. We shall do this every day and take out money like a salary. At least $400 per day. For 250 trading days a year that is cool $100k for a year. Oh, before I forget, you need only $3,000 to start.
Requirements are:
1. Unyielding ability to fantasize about coming profits, even after losing many trades in succession.
2. Inability to do simple arithmetic, because 20 losses out of 25 trades must be believed to be a 99.9779% win rate.
3. Willingness to add multiple times to losing positions, until the account is blown up, after which you must replenish it.
4. Willingness to send in multiple checks to the broker, to cover margin calls.
5. Unwillingness to believe that any trading room is teaching fantasy.
6. You have to come to tradingschools.org daily to shill about my magical trading abilities, and the massive profits that you are making.
7. You must be willing to recruit vagabonds to beat up Rob B if he dares to criticize our magnificent room. You will find and pay someone to do a skip trace to find him.
Hey, if we are going to do it, why do it small? We shall go big. $997 per month. After all, that is less than 3 days of our salary-like profits.
Now, let us see. Just send the initial subscription to IWantToBePartedFromMyMoneyByRidiculousFantasy@paypal.com.
Cyn,
Man do I hear you!! I think Kel and Francis have got to be shills. I have repeatedly asked Kel to explain how this is a good deal and he refuses to answer any real questions and now Francis talking about how he will pass on his first attempt. The fact is most never pass on their first attempt or pass at all and as I explained TS only takes a little risk for 10 days. That is it. After that they risk your money not there money. It is a complete scam, but yet the shill just come out.
At some point you just want to throw your hands in the air and say anyone dumb enough to believe this nonsense after all the articles written in this blog deserve to be scammed.
One of TST employees used to come here and defend their nonsense. Soon he realized that we were not as silly as his customers, and were taking apart his nonsense arguments and excuses, so he gave up coming in here.
After all, with so many suckers ready to do the hamster-wheel, why bother with those wise-asses at ts.org.
Good point Cyn. I remember when they tried to shill for topstep with some of them pretending to be clients. They thought they could put up a shill front just like the did on the ecadorian beachpooped forum. They, like a number of others were on the xpat owner’s favored deal vendors list for years especially when they were better able to hide their stink unlike Mojo. And the xpat never bothered to test out the combines for himself nor verify there was real significant funding as a supposed prop business. Sad that’s it’s true there’s new hapless aspiring retailers every month and still too many come to the gates of the feverdreamforum and think topstep and ninjacess is the way to go. We’re lucky to have tradingshools and it’s appreciated it successfully survived through the hacking and criminal attempted lawsuit undermining by the scams’ hired web thugs in the past year.
I now believe that the so called traders that counter attack every fact we state are paid shills. If not a shill then they will learn the hard way. I feel bad because I know how dangerous it could be to drink the kool aid then wake up one day to realize one should’ve know better. All the time, money, effort, hope and not to mention opportunity lost that one will never get back. I really don’t wish that on anyone coupled with the con men getting wealthy off the back of retail. It bothers me.
The shills are relentless. I keep telling people they have a financial incentive to keep spreading their non sense. Look at Kel acting like he is just some unaffiliated person.
Give me a break. Talking about how you can get their July 4th 20% off deal.
“I am happy with them. For 375 you take a combine which give you a calendar month to trade, and once you pass you go to FTP”
What complete BS. The odds of you passing are virtually zero and you keep paying and paying to retake the stupid test again and again and for what. The reward sucks as I already described. Oh you forgot to mention that part didn’t you Shill Kel. I think there is one and only one value for TS. That is if you are a TR to take the test until you pass and then use that as advertisement to promote your site. There is no value for an actual trader.
If the best a TR can do is help me pass a TST combine to create those SIM bucks then I hope the TR accepts monthly fees paid in all the money I made in SIM over the years. Why don’t they just create a game out of trading because these fantasy numbers they are throwing out into cyberspace are just as useless. At least with a trading arcade we can keep high scores like I use to strive for with Pac Man. I can tell you I had the high score, but it will never be used to pay a bill.
I’m no shill just realize that for under $500 i’ll get access to THOUSANDS of dollars trading account, and swinging up to 15 contracts. I’d have to work a long time to afford an account like that, and loosing all that opportunity time between that could be making money in the market far greater than any $10/hour job.
I’m going to get that 5 THOUSAND DOLLARS and then open my own account! I’ll do both!
” i’ll get access to THOUSANDS of dollars trading account, ”
It does not matter if you have a 1M account if they only let you risk the money you made.
“and swinging up to 15 contracts”
You are going to swing 15 contracts when the most they allow you to lose for the first 10 day is $2000.
Words can not express my thoughts. No one can be this dumb. I think you will remain a $10/hr employee.
How can anyone have a conversation with someone that believes this nonsense. For $500 bucks I will get a huge account where I can swing 15 contracts and make a fortune. Man it is like they say a fool and his money are soon departed.
“For $500 bucks I will get a huge account where I can swing 15 contracts and make a fortune. Man it is like they say a fool and his money are soon departed.”
That is the fantasy world that the scammer depends on. If there are no suckers believing that nonsense, how can the scammers make any money?
I now see that the TR that I am setting up is not promising enough. I have to up the ante a bit. Any outrageous ideas for me? How can I make the whole thing more attractive? I badly need suckers like this for my new TR.
You want to see the best of the best scammer out there, watch Warrior Trading and mimic him. Hands down IMO the best scammer out there.
How about this? You will never have a losing trade , let alone a losing day. Here is a nod to Pete, just like Al Brooks said he is striving for a year where he never has a losing day your trading room will never have a losing trade period. Moreover, you can start with $500 and by the end of the year it will grow into 1 million dollars. It will just be that easy. No one ever has to work again.
When Francis proclaims he’s ready to dump 5k into TST so he can make more than $10/hr that talk is already like what a vendor and their shill would write if Francis isn’t already a shill too, unbelievable. Even more ludicrous comments by “Kel” such as if he had 100k already he would still pay for topstep services. Guaranteed if a real dream achieving day trader (if they exist) built an account from 5k to 100k trading they would never give TopStep a thought as in the back of everyone’s mind, all know it’s just a hamster wheel churn and revolving door duping new hapless aspiring traders often desperate with limited funds each month as the low wage economy continues to depress the populace. Even more inane is where he posts he has only started trading recently yet is asking for advice on how to “start” a chat trading room. I think it’s all a smokescreen and devious machinations to discredit the alarm posse posters in the eyes of new readers of tradingschools then to tout topstep as somehow legit. Geez, this Kel guy sounds like he’s been on the vendor end of the monthly churn for too long where his statements are so out of touch with the real trading retailers are learning to struggle with. So starting a chat trading room inviting people and to “share” trading methods and to teach. Where have we heard that recently? too recent with James/JamesII and Alex Sobiel/Zielaff! and his leaked plan exposed to churn fee “middle-class” income clueless new aspiring traders. If RobB and the other outspoken wised up veteran readers of tradingschools didn’t show where these shills were coming from tirelessly with each review comment thread, then more newb trading generations would be unfortunately duped like the example of that friend of a commenter on Warrior Trading review thread who said he wanted to quit his job as a firefighter and to tell his son that learning to trade “successfuly” like Ross was even ‘better’ than college. Some are still so caught up with the kool-aid that they don’t initially believe the truth demonstrated in the “negativity” such as the guy who thought David Adams ( , the guy who tried to shill for himself in tradingschools over a year ago where his original review was taken down by Emmett because of constant refunds scams), was ok despite the warning and critical posts and got refund scammed also and posted his long email chain proof showing Adams as the misanthropic refund scammer scum he was as well as a biss poor retail trader. http://www.davidadamseminiscam.com
i get waht you are saying but i’m good enough to get there money!@
Francis, I truly wish you good luck from the bottom of my heart. If you are part of the 1 percent then more power to you. Please report back to us on how you are doing in the near future. I mean that with most sincerity.
i can 9 thousand dollars on their sim in less than a month without even breaking a sweat. maybe you can’t do it.
but when i do it and i will i’ll get access to a large account.
i get 80%, they get 20%. more than fair for them spotting me…
greedy guys like you say “it ain’t worth it”, ya well watch shark tank! money makes money!
if, IF i can pass in less than one month billing cycle, IF (i know I can) I get many many times that much in a trading account. yea, lot fail, i’m not one of them.
How much can you make in 10 days?
Cyn, I’ve been making over 9K per week trading in sim for last 5 weeks up to 10 contracts per trade. I rarely had a down day! I’ll easily reach that 9K target in 10 days! I’ll rollover to their sim do what I’m doing now w/o a stumble.
You already have a problem. TST will not let you trade 10 contracts. Now, could you redo your calculations with the max contracts that TST will actually allow you to trade?
True enough Cyn that I’ll have to scale up to 15 as the account increases but thing I can make 9K profit target and get funded in less than 30 days avoiding paying another month on 3-5 contracts.
Actually enjoy shark tank. Not sure what that has to do with day trading.
“i get 80%, they get 20%. more than fair for them spotting me…”
They are not spotting you. Lets play along with your fantasy world and you make $9K in 10 days, because 10 days is all you get. After that they only risk your money – your 9K. TST does not risk a dime and for that you pay them exchange fees and 20%. Now if reality as Tom showed it is a hamster wheel whereby they make their money from fees and not from profitable traders.
Francis, sorry but the fact is you are completely delusional. If you can make 9K easily in a month no sweat then you would not need TST and already be very rich from your day trading. Do you not have a dime to your name? Open up an account and start day trading and make the 9K. And if you do not have a dime to your name I think that speaks volumes about your ability to do any investing.
But I tell you what, when you actually trade live, show Emmett those brokerage statement and come back and prove me wrong. I will eat crow. Somehow I doubt that will happen but just in case I will work on my crow pie recipe.
Rob, I think you got TST rules all wrong, maybe Kel can step in and help.
You must trade a MINIMUM of 10 days in both the Combine & FTP to prove you can trade and know & abide by their rules. You can take as long as you want in either of those sim accounts to meet the profit target of $9,000 but no less than 10 days of trading for each.
Once the Combine is passed the subscription fee is turned off and you enter the FTP. Trade a minimum of 10 days, reach the profit target of $9,000 and you get a LIVE account with a MAX of $4500 DD. That’s THEIR $ they are putting up, not the $ made in FTP because must make $9K to pass! Get it!!?? For $375 I’ll get $4500 to trade with, if I am right about how this works. I think I am, but would like someone that has been thru TST to chime in please.
Thats a pretty good deal imo.
It is you who have not been reading TST properly. That is what we have been trying to tell you.
Let us assume that you do make 9k in your FTP, and you go live. When you do, you have exactly the 9k that you made to trade with, NOT 150k. It is YOUR money already, and now you have to pay them 20% of whatever you make, and pay fees and vig to boot.
They are putting up ZERO money once you are out of FTP. That 4.5k DD you are talking about is 4.5k DD out of money that YOU already made in FTP, NOT THEIR money. Do you now see the brilliance of the scam?
First, I would not trust anything Kel says. I understand the TST rules. After you pass the combine and after you pass the FTD, then you get 10 days to build risk capital, which is the only time TST risk anything. But even there they are not really risking anything as they are using the money all the suckers, I mean traders, paid for the combo. But after that 10 day period TST risk nothing. Absolutely nothing!!!. The risk is the money you made during those 10 days.
I have talk to lots of traders that think like you. It is a piece of cake. TST business model is to create a set of rules that force everyone to eventually fail and capture fees. But assume you are not a shill and for real, don’t take my word on it. TAKE the combo!!! And report your experience, preferably backed up by real brokerage statement showing real trading and let us know how it goes. I think you are going to find trading sim and trading live by TST rules have very little in common.
Francis, the stipulations they put on passing the combine are so stringent that most can not pass or if they do they can not stay funded. Access to that money is just carrot they dangle in front of perspective traders. If you can only lose 2000 before being shut off then 3 or 4 bad days trading futures with multiple contracts will be the end of you. You really never get the luxury of a decent draw down which is very common trading futures. Sometimes a trader will be down for a couple of weeks then catch a nice trending market which will allow the trader to go positive. You not only have p + l constraints, but also time constraints. You can’t force the market. It just doesn’t work like that. Your style may go cold for weeks thus losing your funded account. This seems to happen over and over with TST participants. I know of a guy that has been funded and just can not stay funded. He has been on this hamster wheel for years. No lies no bs just the truth. Those fees start to add up which eventually a trader adds them up to say wow I could’ve funded myself. This is common time and time again. I know what it feels like to have the bug, but I also know the reality of trading. I hope you take time to contemplate the facts of the situation. At the very least, devise a written plan for this venture with time limitations, how much time and money will you spend before you call it quits. Good luck.
I will give you the best advice of your life that no TR or TST is going to tell you and I am sure you will not listen either. If you are making $10/hr, forget about the fantasy world of day trading. You will just lose what little money you have.
Go get a technical skill or back to college. There are 2 year and even shorter programs with jobs that pay a good income. Then do something 90% of Americans cannot do, live below your means so you can save and invest. And then invest wisely.
If you look at the rich people, Trump, Gates, Buffet and so forth, they all became rich by owning a business and growing it over decades. There is no rich person that made their money day trading. And I have a feeling you will be learning that lesson the hard way.
Sometimes I wonder if this blog is making any difference when I read fantasy post like Francis. Gee no wonder this industry is nothing but con artist as there are no shortage of suckers.
You will NOT get any large account to trade. THAT is the scam! They write the copy without telling any overt lies, because the lies are hidden in the way that the proposition is presented.
Just make sure you have plenty of water, because you will need it on that hamster wheel ..
I won’t be on any hamster wheel way I see it only works when I can get thru to funded in less than 2 months tops. Spent less than $1000 (2 months subs @375 + 2 months data fees@ 85)to get $4500 risk $. Spend much more and I might as well open my own account. Spend a thou to get 4500??!! Worth it as I see it. I must make 18K in 2 months ..9K Combine target and 9K FTP target. Would really have to be on my game ..trade at least 2 or 3 contracts. If I had to do another third month subs to get funded I probably would bite the bullet. That put me about 1300 to get 4500..still a good deal. I’m very sure I could do 18K sim money in 3 months = ~70 trading days give or take a day.
I’m saving now and have almost enough or $1000 I need to have a little reserve in case it goes a little longer than I expect. Maybe I don’t even need that much because of something Kel mentioned about resetting at right time to minimize the fees. I’ll go re-read that because I don’t understand what he’s saying there or how to do that and when if needed.
The first $5000 I make in live funded is mine @100% payout! But won’t withdraw it right away I’ll take account to $9000 first just like in the sim accounts. I want my trading in my live funded account to be consistent with how I passed the two previous sim accounts. Don’t want to change anything just keep doing what works, consistent approach and put myself in the mindset that this live account is no different that the sim accounts. Don’t want to get all scared and pshyce myself out in live. I don’t even want to thing about it but be robotic taking trades one after another.
After getting to $9000 (just like previous sim accounts) I’ll draw my prize $5000 leave $4K in account for trading and building it up. This is my plan, I think its doable. TST is goiung to help me achieve my dream, and goodbyle $10/hr job forever.
And I am going to start working out and get the girl in the picture as my girlfriend and then open up a kool-aid stand and become the biggest distributor of drinks in the world and then run for president. And BTW all that is more likely than any of the crap you keep on saying.
Just shut up and TAKE THE COMBO (waste your money) then post everyday your results and then post those live trading results and prove us all wrong. But like every other BS artist that has come here I serious doubt we will hear a word from you in 3 months. Just gone to the wind you will be, but yet another BS artist that sounds just like Francis will be posting. Just out of curiosity what exactly is your job at TST? Seriously if you were real why would you even post the complete BS nonsense you are posting? Just TAKE THE DAMN COMBO. DO IT!!!!!
Come on Mike, you still have faith in these con artist. How about a side bet. I say we will never see the amazing Francis trader who makes 9K like candy every show any evidence he can trade live profitably.
Rob, are you a trader or an investor? You sound a lot like one of those people that say “it can’t be done because i can’t do it”?
There are very successful traders out there man, and many more undiscovered skill. No not easy but nothing worth a dman is is it?
you sound a lot like a “portfolio manager” trying to squeeze a couple % SAFELY out of a retirement account so the old fool can have an extra 500 bucks a month w/o touching the principle.
I’m not least bit interested in anything like that, I’m going full throttle makes some real $ while i’m young
“Rob, are you a trader or an investor?”
I am both. But yes I say what the Day Trading rooms teach is nonsense and there is a reason why none of them can show any actual proof and instead they all post anything and everything but showing any proof. IMHO all the Day Trading room operators are con men. I also say TST is designed to sucker in want to be day traders with rules that are almost guaranteed to make one fail. And anyone that is so broke they need TST is not likely to be a successful trader or investor and will just end up more broke.
You keep talking about how you are going to do this and that. Time to stop the talk and do it. I am still anxiously waiting for you to post those daily TST combo, then FTP and then live trading results. For Goodness sake start the combo tomorrow and start posting those results. Or is this the part where you say, “I do not need to prove anything to you or anyone else”
It is time to shut up or step up!!!!!!
Wait! You mean if I don’t hit the profit target, I also don’t get the girl? Damn. What’s the point?
Francis,
This is Rob B II not that ahole loser Rob B. I just read his post and I am steaming mad. How dare that dickhead question your integrity and imply you work for TST and that you will just disappear in the wind in a month or so. He is just a loser who could not trade his way out of a paper bag. And just because that loser cannot do it he is trying to kill the dream for the rest of us. Seriously he would have you in chains working your $10/hr job the rest of your life. What an ahole. Anyone with a brain can see TST is turning $10/hr workers into day trading millionaires. What is there not to love Rob B?
It is time for us to shut that ahole mouth up for good. Francis, you show him you are the real deal. I got an idea. Start that 150K combo on Monday and then post everyday right here showing exactly how you make that $9K in a month. Then post the FTP results right here again showing how you make $9K again and how any idiot could do it. Then when TST gives you the 150K trading account and the $4500 drawdown max, you swing 15 cars live and show how in that 10 day grace period you make another $9K as your risk capital. Then continue to trade live, posting those real brokerage statement showing how you turn that $9K into 1Million dollars in no time. In fact show them to Emmett live so there is no doubt about your trustworthiness.
That will put that toothless, fat, old dickhead Rob B who has not been laid in 2 years in his place once and for good. I dare you to dispute any of this Rob B.
I look forward to your TST combo post starting next week. Go show him Francis!!!
Rob & Rob II, there is no “10 day grace period” thats what I been trying to tell you. Once into live funded you get $4500 to play with. There is no “10 days” or anything like that the rules have changed.
I won’t be swinging 15 cars right away, I’ll work up to as the account builds up. Stay under 5 cars till my account gets over something like 10K.
ps I hate captchas
Francis, go for it dude. If you can do it then come back here and prove everyone wrong. That’s up to you. Rob just doesn’t believe in trading the way most rooms try to preach. It is possible that you have something others don’t. He also has a hatred for con men which I support him on. There have been too many bs posts on here. As a result he will call out anything he feels to be made up. IMHO, it’s ok to believe, just be realistic and have a plan in case it doesn’t work out. Without a plan you may continue on a journey that hasn’t been properly vetted.
One thing I have no doubt of is if TST changed their rules it is to favor their bottom line and not the traders. The way they do that trailing drawdown has always been a path to failure.
I cannot wait for your to start that combo and report your daily progress.
Next week is when I start and will report back my progress but I won’t start slinging brokerage statements or bank account balances I have nothing to prove to you or anyone except myself and besides doubt any proof would be enough for most of you. Just keep asking for more.
You guys are traders but you doubt anyone can trade successfully? That doesn’t make sense.
TST is going to spot me thousands of dollars to get me started, and I’ll pay them 20% for that. You need to get up on the new rules.
Francis, we understand realistic trading numbers for traders that are properly funded in order to make a true living. If you want to swing around 10 lots with proper risk management then you need at least 100g’s to weather the ups and downs of the market. 10,000 per lot traded. Now when I say 100k, one needs access to that money for when you go down 6percent after a draw down which is obviously 6000. With a 100k account, full access to that money, you can withstand the draw down and make it back, but if you are only allowed to lose 4500 you would be out of the game. IMO, the draw down you are allowed is really what you can trade against. The benefit of a large account is so you can trade multiple lots and weather the inevitable draw downs. 5 bad trades in a row and you are out , if using a reasonable stop for futures while trading 10 lots. Even if you lose twice, now you are up against it and worried about that number, very hard to do.
I have said it before, I don’t expect you to come back and prove us wrong unless you feel obligated. If you do then do it with actual verified results. If you do it, I promise to be you biggest fan. No lie. I would love to see a young guy mastering the market and showing people how it’s done. At least on this blog, people remain skeptical because they understand the numbers and know the realities of trading. You also must realize from SIM to live there will always be a stutter step. I hope you keep an open mind to what we pointed out to you so you make the right decisions with your time and money.
Francis don’t listen to Mike you go ahead and trade the max 15 cars. After all you get a whole $4,500 drawdown. Surely you can not hit that trading a measly 15 cars.
Come on Mike, I expect with his 15 car swinging he will be one of the fastest ever to blow up his TST account and start back on the hamster wheel. Let the fun begin.
Mike,
You are too kind. From reading this guy’s post I hope he is a shill for TST, otherwise he is a complete fool. I will recap the best I can from his post:
1) He is a $10 hour worker,
2) He has no money to open a live trading account and actually trade,
3) As best I can tell he has never taken a live trade,
4) He has just enough money to pay for TST 150K Combo,
5) He will easily make $9K in the combo the first month without breaking a sweat,
6) He will once again repeat that feat in the FTP,
7) He will then with a 3K daily limit and $4,500 max drawdown trade live for the first time in his life and then swing 15 cars to make a fortune,
8) Easy Pease!!
I say he has a better chance of making money playing powerball than that happening. In fact saying he is a fool is being too kind. He has to be seriously delutional.
And you wonder how folks keep getting scammed. I say read his post, he deserves to be scammed.
His entire posts can be summed up thus: “I have never traded in a live account, but I am slinging around 10 cars in Sim, so I am a superstar trader.”
If folks just stopped and thought for 2 seconds and asked the most basic questions, instead of being suckered in the fantasy world. How about why if TST makes their money off profitable traders are they charging these amazing traders so much to so a sim trading combo. I mean if they are really looking for great traders and that is how they make their money then they should have no fee or very little fees. And why does a 150K combo need to pay more than a 50K combine for a sim try out? It does not cost them anymore money to run those combos. In fact it should be a general sim combo and then based on how well you do they then start you with an appropriate account size and then work you help.
But it is not about finding profitable traders, it is about finding suckers. That is the only reason for there combo fee scam. They know most fail and then use all that combo fee to take a little risk if they pass. Seriously you are trading a 150K combo and the most you can draw down is $4500K. That is a 3% drawdown. It is fantasy world nonsense. Anyone that trades and only has a 3% drawdown would be the richest person on the planet by now.
By logic and facts do not matter. The awesome power of the Kool-Aid!!!!!
Right there is the real problem. One can not actually believe that a 3% draw down will not occur. That’s if you are smart and only risk 1% or less on each trade. With the way crude can explode in volatility, you better be ready to consistently manage your size which most if not all of new traders do not know how to do effectively.
Francis, just ignore Mike. he does not know what he is saying.
Go ahead and sling your usual 15 cars on /CL. After all, it is just Sim, and you are making money every day.
How can you possibly draw down more than 3%? only losers draw down a whole 3%.
Yes ignore me because I am just part of the 90 percent that didn’t figure out the market. Those trading rooms are correct. You only need 3 or 4 tick stop in crude and most if not all of your trades will work out.
Also, SIM trading is really a different ball game. At the very least, be prepared for the change when you go from SIM to live and you have real dollars on the line. Maybe you got stopped on your last few trades and the market went quiet. Now you are questioning your method and guess what some bills are due. you know what, only the failures go through that or the traders that can’r pull it off. Hey, there is always the statistical possibility that there are the few out there. I think people are misconstruing traders that are realistic with traders that don’t trade. I am more inclined to believe a trader with realistic numbers than fantasy results. Look at the Follow Me Trades guy and the Nightscalper. These men have been doing it for a boat load of years and are properly funded. They have validated their results. I am sure they would agree with most if not all of what we have been saying.
Rob, won’t be doing the combine on Monday need couple hundred more in saving. I’ll be on ninjasim again Monday @open all day. (i work 3rd shift, be tired but i’ve done it for last 5 weeks catching catnip here there where possible)
I need to get thru combine make 9K target in about 20 trading days that comes out to be 450/day to avoid sub charge for another month. Like I said I’m will to pay another month which would bring me to about 200/day avg profit to reach target. 200/day is definitely doable!
(dude thats only 20 oil ticks or 40 YM ticks or some combo)but definitely try not to go another month want enough insaving just in case.
Let’s say I make the 9K in 20 days the sub is turned off and I have as many months as needed to make the 9K in FTP AT NO CHARGE. So real hurdle is that Combine, once over that its free sailing. So I will push real hard on that combine focus focus focus.
A question for you: for that person that wins powerball, thats a good deal right? ie, 4500 bucks for 375. 😉
“Rob, won’t be doing the combine on Monday need couple hundred more in saving. ”
Seriously I think this is all anyone needs to know. All this talk about doing a combine and you do not even have enough money to take the combine. How the hell are you then going to pay for another month. Take the 50K combine if you can afford that one instead.
This conversation is soooooooooo ridiculous even I cannot take it anymore. I doubt you will ever take the combine and am sure if you do you will fail based on your posts.
I want to save enough to get thru 2 months subscription if need be and 2 months data fees. I’m about there.
Tell you what until i’ll trade off ninjasim 1 contract oil & YM and report back my profit or loss from market open till close. one contract thats it no more, and should i drawdown more tha 500 bucks i quit for the day. what say about that? let me show you…what i can do?
I didn’t know as per your previous post you have been trading profitably for 5 whole weeks. Assuming you are for real, I think you are about to find sim trading and trading a TST combines and trading in the real world are completely different. I for one look forward to your TST results.
But if you do not have the money for the 150K combine why wait, just take the $30K combine for only $150. You have the money for that. And you only have to make $1500 which should be like a walk in the park for you. And all the time, which is money, you are losing waiting to save up for that 150K combo you could be making money hands over fist trading that 30K combo. Enough so you would not even need TST anymore. You could then open your own live trading account. And all that can be started right away.
No no no. That will not do. He likes to go big. 15 cars to sling around. Only the big combine will do. Stop being so logical, you troll. 🙂
Now for a serious question. How did you insert the Icon.
If the question about the smiley was for me, just use the standard text equivalent. “:-)” does this 🙂
Man you are almost as harsh as that Rob B II character. And BTW Rob B II I have all or at least most of my teeth so take that.
Let’s hear from from Rob III.
I’ll actually place a few sim trades here live ..tomorrow not every trade. this isn’t the venue for that
Hey Francis,
Take your time trade your plan, no need to rush. No need to swing for the fences. (Sure I might get more bs said about me.) My friend that I referred is about to pass his 150K FTP. On my live, I have a 50K Funded and I am 1K away from 5K. I just only trade 1 contact, so if you get a 150K you can definitely trade more size than me.
I didn’t get to trade during the week of July 4th except on July 6, I was drained throughout the week and wasn’t waking up at 5:30 AM so didn’t really trade.
After everyone that was visiting left, I adjusted back to my daily routine schedule.
This week so far has been a good week.
Also, as for me, I will be working on the site / blog and collecting the data I need so that I can submit it to Emmett. (Sorry if I spelled your name wrong.)
Trade well and best of luck!!
Hey Francis,
He just past his FTP, he needs to wait for update this afternoon.
Here is the post from yesterdays Update, to today’s trade.
Trade Well!!
Here is the Update Francis.
And no this is not my account. It is the friend’s account that I referred. If you want to go read the past post statements and verify the consistency of the documents.
50K Statement is Live Funded that I am trading on, the 150K Statement was the Combine that passed in 12 Days and the FTP which he messed up initially and dug his way out was completed in 22 Days.
Good Luck and Trade Well!!
ROFL Rob B. I think you are getting too old and your Spidey Senses need recalibrating. But other than that, I will be the one to prove you wrong. Even if I do submit all the proof … your negativity and closed minded persona is just going to find any type of excuse to say this is why he is a shill, this is why he is a sham blah blah blah. Oh the statements can be photoshopped … but hey. I love your negativity. You are motivating me to get this stuff together to prove your ignorant ass wrong.
Have a Blessed Day!!
You stated at the beginning you are starting or have started a trading room. Just gather your brokerage statement of the live trades you are making in that TR and show them to Emmett and get a 5 star review. I am not sure what other proof you can show that would have any meaning.
Your post just reads like a circus act of someone promoting TST. Maybe others will think differently.
Instead of all this Muhammed Ali-like dancing around the issue, just submit your genuine redacted broker statements to Emmett and beg him for a review. All these pictures you are posting are junk that means nothing. Yes, anyone can make up a document and take a screenshot to post. That is all that you are doing. The screenshots are barely legible anyway.
Kel, I wish you the best. One thing I disagree with. If you truly intend on opening a room, IMO the only way to stand out is through verified performance. If you verify through Emmett just a few winning months, that would be enough to get you a 5 start review and all the traffic you could handle. It would be enough for me to accept your performance. I wouldn’t ask for more and I believe most if not all the readers would accept your numbers once verified. The only problem is that a fraction can seem to support their claims of successful trading. I don’t think it is too much to ask considering all the twitter traders claiming to be successful that turn out to be frauds. The responsibility is yours if you intend to charge traders for a service then you must be legit, not a twitter couch trader. There is nothing wrong asking for proof when someone offers a service, especially a business rampant with fraud. Hey like I said, you can’t blame people for doubting with the failure rate so high. Numbers don’t lie, but there are the few that make it. I’m always looking to improve, but I am extremely cautious now.
Thank you Mike,
I completely understand.
You still should comment on your experience with TST. If you feel up to being transparent then talk about the pros and cons along the way. I’m sure there are many traders contemplating on going that route. IMO the more that topic is discussed the more beneficial to you and the readers interested in TST. I think in some way Francis benefited by having the discussion on here with all the readers which started with your post.
Hopefully you will come back to let everyone know how it turns out for you when you go live. I’m sure there are new traders interested in your experience.
Kel,
Every time I read one of your post my Spidey senses start to tingle. In one post you state your taking and passed a 150K combine then in the next post you talk about passing a 50K combine. The inconsistency is mind blowing.
But forget the inconsistency, when I read this post it screams TST shill. I cannot image any trader on the planet doing what you claim to be doing. Let’s look at the facts as you state them:
1) You passed a 50K combine which was a piece of cake and now
2) You go right back and pay more combine fees to sim trade a 150K combine.
This makes no sense at all. Any trader that funded for a 50K combine would then start trading live and be making money so they can open their own account and get away from the insane TST scam rules and their stealing of your money. But not you, you apparently live to just take combines.
So this leaves me with 2 possibilities:
1) This is like a video game for you and you just pay and take TST combines for fun (this one seems very unlikely or
2) You are associated with TST and get to take the combines for free and just take a bunch until you pass and then come here to post promotional BS TST post. I am 100% sure this is the case. Yes that is right not 99.9% sure, but 100%, because there is no other rational reason to do what your are doing.
And Mike M this is exactly what I mean when I say this entire industry is corrupt. Here is this shill just posting BS combine results and yet claims to pass them but never trades them live. What nonsense.
Stated results to me is just talk. I have known traders not selling anything to embellish statistics so take them for what they are just talk until they are verified. If he wants to come here and talk about his trading to promote himself then he would need verified broker statements. Until then, we shall see. I think we belabored the point about TST not being the answer to under funded traders. Everyone has a different opinion and many will learn for themselves.
i thought about that…30K is 150 bucks for 1500..but hell i almost have 1000 now…why not open my own account?
1500 isn’t much dawdown, ..4500 sounds better to me give me a little room ..you know?
If you were going to trade 15 cars with the 150K combo you would trade less cars with the 30K and work your way up.
Please don’t post meaningless trade calls like James did. No matter what the market does you can say I nailed it. Unless you post time stamped calls ahead of time with stop loss and profit targets it has Zero value.
Frankly, I can not follow what you plan on doing. In one post you say you are going to start your 150K combo this Monday, Next post you say you don’t have enough money and then in the next post you say you have $1000 which is more than enough to cover 2 months of combo. When you start your combo then post if you want. BTW does the fact that you have to continue to pay monthly combo sucker fees hit you TST is scam? What possible reason could there be for that except fee generation?
the trades aren’t meaningless they are live sim trades easily verified by anyone with a live feed. do you have a live feed?
if you want me to stop, i will. i won’t post my combine results either in that case they are one in the same essentially you called it useless. i’m done, nothing will make you happy apparently so why should i try?
Posting the so-called trade beforehand means you have to show that everything happened before ot actually happened, not after the fact.
That means you have to post:
1. When you placed the order.
2. Type of order
3. Entry price
4. Stop loss price
5. Target price
And it must ALL be posted BEFORE the order is filled, as per the time stamp of your post. Posting hindsight entries is our forte in SalaryTradingRoom point com, so we are not fooled by it.
posting “i shorted CL @ 44.51 1 car” is absolutely meaningless. What is the point!! This is the kind of BS Scam artist TR post.
Cyn stated it best so I do not need to repeat, but yes if this what you plan to post go to BMT where everyone will tell you good luck and way to go Francis. But posting that is of ZERO value to anyone. Seriously what is the point??
Anyone can make random generic calls. And I think you did it just as a way to come back and say nothing you post will make anyone happy. Well posting that silliness for sure will make no one happy.
Unless you are going to post real call before hand with timestamp, stop loss and profit target all clearly stated it is all smoke and mirrors.
Just like you silly CL call, where was the exit. When it hit the bottom you miraculously got out. You can say any price was your exit.
Either you are being willfully stupid or just plain stupid if you think this type of trade call has any meaning.
Finally, you are talking a little sense as far as trading mechanics and risk control go.
Please do not post, “I made $200 today” unless you goal is to make us ill. When you start your TST combine you can post the actually combine on a regular basis.
But if you goal is to just have a bunch of folks say go for it and great job, you better off posting on BMT, where they use to give a discount if your posted.
Rob, in about another week i should have a bit over a thou with my next check this friday. untill then i’ll work the nijasim and just for hell of it post my pnl, just for shits & giggles untill i get into the combine, then i’ll post the screenshots ok?
I’ll trade 1 contract on sim limit myself to 2 markets, crude oil & ym. i get one car in each..i’ll predict what i’ll make…ahhhh give me a minute hear..$800 in 6 1/2 hours..open to close. thats what i predict…my max drawdown is 500. i’ll do 800 ..pretty sure over 1K but lets say 800? ONE CAR. i’ll post results..definitely be focused because i want to prove myself here, and to myself..i look forward to this.
Somebody told me that “FantasyTradeRoom” is kind of telling too much truth, and asked me to get a better name. so we are changing it to “SalaryTradeRoom”, because we take out money every day from the market, just like a salary.
In SalaryTradeRoom, we can have a 2-tick stop which does not get hit even if we take 1 point of heat. In our trade room, stops are never hit, until we make a profit. So we do not have drawdowns. 3% pfft. We have none. Once in a while we make a mistake and when we are adding to a massive loser, we might exit by mistake, but that is not a problem, because we just get right back in with even larger size at a better price.
If you cannot handle 3% drawdown, you are just a loser.
I admit fun to sling 10-15 cars in a sim account see those thousands add up fast lol. In a real account I would be a lot more conservative like 1-3 untill my confidence in doing the “right” thing ie taking losses quickly, and the account built up a bit. No, don’t consider myself a super trader (at this time) but i feel i have an aptitude for this 😉
The pandabera of the old beachforum reported this type of dream trading pretty much years ago. He would show his winning ticks on Crude up and down the intraday swings of the day. Better yet he would average in (not average down) cars and would never take partial profit. And of course it was all on sim, or at times it would be assumed to be ambiguous. Later on he had reported he had got to the funding stage of TST, but had failed to stay on the live funded stage due to the challenging “restrictions”. We never did find out if he had made his millions from trading. But he and VigVanceVigil were some of the best dream performers in their journals I dare say even better than the dreams Francis is touting. Just saying we’ve seen it all before, and it just smells too shilly of someone wanted to promote a sham room with some links to TST.
I look at like this and I’m ready for the criticism. I enjoy reading dtchurn and Rob’s posts for different reasons. dtchurn seems to leave anecdotal responses that are fun and informative. Rob will give you solid financial facts along with calling people out on everything he doesn’t believe in. If everyone bashed every post without giving the writer a chance to leave their opinion then this blog would only be a few people commenting. It would be boring. Hey, I woke up from the kool aid hangover, but I still want to hear other stories. I find it fascinating and insane the amount of fraud in retail trading. It’s like I can’t stop watching a bad accident, but we need people to post their experiences to keep it interesting. If I’m gullible sometimes then I will hear it and change my views accordingly.
Mike,
The funny thing is I think I am nice even when I am 90% sure they are shill, but when they just post nonsense I cannot take it anymore. Gee Francis just posted he will not even be taking the combine next week as he does not have the money. At some point it just gets to be to ridiculous. You notice how everyone of these people I and others have called out months ago, never show any proof of their claims and just disappear. There are no shortage of shill out there and they are so use to going unchallenged they have no idea what to do when someone calls them out. I would love for one of these scammers to show proof of their claims, but doubt it will every happen because the stuff they teach is nonsense. All the real teaching traders have been run out of business by the scammers making fantasy promises. Who wants to hear someone talk about how you need to be properly funded, how you will have drawdowns and only make 20% return a year on average if you are lucky. And some years you will lose money. No one wants to hear that when you have the scammer telling you how you can have no or little drawdown, you can have no money like Francis and make 1000% returns a year with an 80% win rate and take money like a salary.
So yes when I hear people talk about TST as s solution for poor traders I get ill, as it is nothing but a fee making scheme to con newbies.
Mike, let me ask you, now be serious. Do you think Francis who does not even have enough money to pay for a combine and never traded live in his life is going to make his fortune via TST. You can say keep the dream alive and go for it, but that is the reason these con artist you hate are able to keep scamming folks. It is always well just because you cannot do it does not mean the other person can not or something along those lines. It is straight out of con 101 book.
None of these people dare ask TST for any stats, such as exactly how many people pass your combine and then pass the FTP and then what are the stats of the funded trader. And guess what TST will never give out those numbers for a reason. If they truely were making money off of profitable traders instead of fee generation they would be posting those results all over the place.
Personally, I do not think TST is the answer for anyone. The rules are created to keep you paying combine fees. As far as succeeding at trading, well I would tell anyone that isn’t properly funded to run and run fast. The answer to a good life is school and a great job where you can earn and save. If you are so hell bent on trading then I would say swing trading with money you can afford to lose. People have to stop saying I won’t be part of the 90 percent which is fine. Well then you better have a method that’s proven to work in all market conditions. Even still for people thinking about quitting their job, I would advise against it. You better have the right funding, money saved for expenses, and a tremendous aptitude for aggravation and disappointment. If you are that very small percentage that is special, you still should have realistic expectations with an out clause.
I agree with everything that you said because those are the cold hard facts. I am not encouraging these guys in anyway, but we know that people will ignore what’s right in every aspect of life. One area I disagree, dreamers deserve to get swindled. I too know how easy it was to believe these con men and the hype. I use to count the money I was going to make before the week started and excused myself when it didn’t workout. I know that makes me sound uninformed, but honesty may help here. Yes, I was so gullible even with a background in finance. I still kick myself for ignoring the numbers. To summarize, no the numbers are not in their favor, but I hope if they are not the 1 percent , they will have a plan to change course.
Good point MikeM about having a good education and a steady job to build up with. It’s somewhat disheartening and even disgusting to see comments about people quitting their jobs to follow Ross into trading fortunes, even wishing their son to “learn” to “trade” profitably like another Sykes instead of “wasting” time and money going to college. I haven’t mentioned this much but my personal feeling on trading is that’s it’s very much steeped in the vice of gambling. I think young adults should start of their career life in something other than retail trading at least for a few years.. (i’m in no way knocking finance, I’d taken some accounting and a business major seems appealing to me in an alternate life). But seeing all these teens or young adults dream about trading then some hiding their losses getting caught up into becoming a “legit” shammer for the bulk of their best years is just appalling imo. As I mentioned in old review comments I once tried out Sykes’ shorting newsletter years ago and successfully bugged the shell retail trading gig that was managing his subscriptions until I got my 2k refund. I had copied and posted all the sim losers on Thinkorswim for the past half year where all his calls were mostly losers far from the dream he touted of making a fortune short selling stocks. Now I look back and wonder I may have been lucky to get the refund because I may have been one of he only ones bothering to request one and show the “results” of my sim entries. And it made me wonder how did Sykes ever get so big then and the years after with only his touted bar-mitvah intial 1000% trades or whatever as “proof”. Some of those questions I feel were answered by Emmett’s reviews on profit.ly, and further commentary on Sykes other site ventures ala Investi-scamma.com
I was just reiterating what was said on here before on a good education and a lucrative career being the path to a better life. Rob said that a few times that I read and dtchurn in his words too. A way to save as much as you can of what you make is absolutely the path to wealth. 401k with a company matching tax free is how one will not have to worry going into retirement about ever losing health care and every other aspect of life. If started early enough, you should have a very nice retirement which seems too far off for a young guy, but without it life starts to look bleak. That’s just the start of what you can do to increase your wealth However, I know this is a trading blog and I should stay on track.
Trading is definitely in a way gambling. I read a fantastic book about world class successful gamblers. quite a few of the gamblers were able to turn that skill into success in the markets. By using a modified approach to managing money, they succeeded in trading as well. Just think how very few people are gambling for a living. It can be done, but you have to be entirely realistic with a proven set of strategies that you are constantly modifying with the correct funding.
“401k with a company matching tax free”
Actually I tell people try and get a job with defined benefits. Practically the only one offering that these days is Govt jobs. That pension plan is worth millions and people do not even think about it.
Man, RobB you really are the shill moderator of tradingschools or next thing close to deputy sheriff, where Emmett the sheriff came to clean house of the retail trading and tradeucation industry of all the compromised review sites and even the shills’ own sites to misdirect web search traffic. This must be at least the 10th time in the past almost three years of trading schools, where some vendor shill and their tag-time pretend “newb” student-trader try to gain traction on a thread of commentary only to be exposed and countered for practically ever shilled post down the spaghetti turns of the winding thread. And the shilled nonsense can last for days, even weeks. It can just get so hilarious I can not help but sometimes laugh at the absurdity of the shills trying to undermine the exposed truth movement of trading schools in the commentary only to be countered by RobB and other outspoken voices who have had enough of the shilled supposed retail trading-media.Even worse the xpat of the compromised beachpooped feeforum had for so long acted like he and a few select members (who often become new shamshow vendors themselves such as the “36 steps of trading” guy) were the be all and end all of profitable trading even though what they showed of supposed “proof” in the end was an averaged down mess of hundreds of contracts. And you still get discounts courtesy of the vig deals between beachforum and their favored sham vendors, of course a “discount” with TST and yeah, the mumbly b__ks palm reader. I remember over and over, the shills of certain reviews trying to sneak in shilling for a site or saying again they were “newb” traders who “recently” found profitablity and some of them disappear quick and some of them go into the long winding fracus with RobB et al. As a byproduct it also provides afternoons or evenings of reading entertainment as MikeM well puts. This site and commentary is just not what it is without RobB. I am far from elucidating as well as RobB and many others and can mostly share just my enthusiasm and crazy anecdotes in the “witchhunt” and tar and feathering of these shamshows, the only recourse in decades of so many disenfranchised who had their complaints deleted from ripoff report, overwhelmed by the shills and sham vendor comments in investi-scamma, forexpeacearmy over the years, and other compromised feeforum sites. These shill teams or a singular shill acted by the sham vendor reviewed always can show no real sustained proof, and disappear eventually like as how Emmett puts it, a flatulation in the wind, but where he recently said eventually the stink resurfaces funneled into other new latest scams and websites and sometimes the scammer’s identity remake. This time this tag team duo has been especially sneaky commenting in a marginally old, ancient review of tradingschools. They’ve been fairly pleasant, not insulting and trollish to try to differentiate themselves from other past shilling attempts. Except the old signs are always still there. Like the wannabe vendor says at first he’s a “new trader” then later changes his story hilariously saying he’s been in prop, had a meet with Sykes and other famous traducators or former rockstar retail traders, then proceeds to show a thinkorswim video that anyone with TOS can easily see that it’s a detached window so the sim vs. live platform cosmetics can’t be seen. Thinkorswim has greatly improved their simulation of the volume and dom of live trading in their paper simualtor particularly on their dom. It used to be particularly bad before Snot-off sold the platform to TDA and they seemed to have had dedicated developers improving it with regularity ever since. Then you had the other member of the tag team claiming to be new yet so profitable completely reminiscent of the myriad of rock-star journals on the beachforum seen over and over ad nauseum. I think they are trying to play it cool, the main goal of course is to get the bystanders who visit this site to tempt them to “sign up” for TST services particularly their churned combines to “help” their trading. We can see how the newb is getting ready to leave now that he thinks he successfully demonstrated a profitable sim trade for those very new to tradingschools who may unfortunately fail to heed the warnings of RobB and those wised and woken up. It’s always the poor, quasi-desperate newb who “just” has enough money for a TST combine, never a trader who’s been succseful for years and ready to show sustatined proof immediately and tout TST as the site that “helped” them become a “successful dream trader” the elusive unicorn goal of everyone new to retail trading. That pretty much sums the theme of this latest shilled campaign in these threads. A battle to wake up new readers of tradingschools vs. the shills’ attempts to keep them kool-aid induced to the reality of the 99.99% shamshows.
I just hate these shills / TR operators. They are all con artist. I hate them with a passion!!!!!! Probably because I consider myself to a pretty good investor and reasonable intelligent person and pretty damn good with money if I say so myself and they scammed me in the past. I swear NOW I can see their smoke and mirror routine and smell them from a mile away.
I tell you a true story. Was rehabbing this place in the shadier part of the city (back in my youthful days). Anyone stop in this restaurant and this guy comes in and sits down next to another customer and start to play the shell game. And I thought what idiot on the planet would play that game with this obvious con artist. And this con artist walked away with that suckers money and out of the restaurant faster than you could blink an eye. So now I think I was the shell game sucker but by these TR operators. So once I woke up from the Kool-Aid state I had a passion to tell every other trader out there this whole industry is nothing but con artist.
“I won’t start slinging brokerage statements or bank account balances I have nothing to prove to you or anyone ”
What a shocker!!!!
“Just keep asking for more.”
You haven’t showed anything for anyone to ask for more. All you done is make wild statements. How hard is it to show some brokerage statements of those millions you will be making in no time. Heck show them live to Emmett and start a TR if you want and get a 5 star Review. You will do something virtually no one else has been able to do.
Personally if you are not a shill my prediction is you fail the TST Combine before you even get to next stage. I look forward to next week and your combo results.
lol I knew you be incredulous. Hopefully I’l be on the sim Monday starting with a couple of cars in oil & YM. I stay focused better than trying to trade too many markets at once.
By market close I’ll throw up some figures but I’ll be trading more after market reopens
Rob will keep you honest at the very least. Hopefully, you can take everything into perspective for your future. Risk management will keep you in the game long enough to get it right.
OMG I had enough. I think no one listens to facts anymore. It must be the political environment we are in of alternate facts. I can’t understand why so many will defend the reprehensible con men then call anyone that is a critic just a hater. To each is own. Good luck to the traders that are after those SIM profits of triple digit monthly returns. They will have to learn the hard way. I will wait for the next review to comment.
Cyn, you sound like just the kind of person I need at “StrayDogTrades dot com”
Woo hoo, the dawg is back.
The Stray Dog is back!!!!!
Hey guys just thought I would put in my two cents worth in regard to TST.
TST in my opinion is good for people learning to trade that want the excitement that goes with trading a real account but don’t want to risk $1000s of dollars.
Yes they charge a fee to participate in the combine but the cost of that compared to trading a live account when you don’t really know what you are doing and having no rules to respect is very minimal.
If you are a experienced trader that is consistently profitable then TST are not for you and I would never say otherwise.
However if you are reasonably new to trading have not yet proven yourself profitable but don’t mind paying the money to try and get funded and like the idea of having rules that need to be adhered to and will set you up with good habits for the future then I say go for it.
Hello, recently joined the Oil Trading Group, they have lots of information and it could get overwhelming. His trades are transparent, but his documentation of results are questionable. I met them through Topsteptrader so I am aware of how Topsteptrader works on how you are able to verify trades.
In the beginning, I was all about his service being excited, emotional, and winning 2 days in a row. The 3rd day made me question his technique. He over traded, kept going against the trend and eventually logged off and threw his what sounded like a pen on the table and logged off. After I had this huge losing day, I had to take a step back and assess whether his service was practical for my style or not.
What made me a little concern during the interim was that on days where we have big losers, he would post a video of a different strategy “his favorite setup” the retracements 70.5 or 70.6 fib retracement … and he would state in his videos +116 ticks or what not … I was like, we didn’t take this trade. I would watch the video where he then mentions he did not take this trade. Why post this setup and talk about it when you didn’t trade it this way. It is a marketing technique and a smart one. With multiple strategies in place that he “teaches” when his primary market maker levels aren’t working or with multiple losers he would apply a different strategy and explain how great it worked out and the possibility to make X amount of ticks.
Recently, I found this to be very misleading, especially when he just finished attending his brother’s wedding in Hawaii, about 2/3 weeks ago from today 7.3.2017. He came back and traded and had a horrible day, I mean like roughly 7 losing trades in a row and kept over trading, even though he mentioned that the market is possibly choppy and he shouldn’t get in. But, we are new traders, what do we know of? When the Guru takes action, we try to follow as well, when we aren’t sure of what we are learning and when you ask questions, they direct you to the chatroom and say keep trading it and you will eventually start to understand it. So … that evening I was waiting for the update for that Video … guess what, no video … I tested the other strategies he used especially his favorite, didn’t work that day. Hmmm, I wasn’t to happy with that, I recall that was a Thursday now because I remember he said he made a killing on Friday and said he made back all his losses from yesterday, that is not true because I was in those same trades.
http://www.oiltradinggroup.com/2017/06/21/june-21st-2017-5-points-es-80-ticks-cl/
Missing June 22nd, the Big Down Day
http://www.oiltradinggroup.com/2017/06/24/june-23rd-2017-112-tick-cl-trade-day/
On that day, before the winning trade, we took 2-3 Losers before the winner … soo the earnings wasn’t 112 all together.
No posts from last week, don’t know why. But, I am starting to feel that it is misleading.
He has great philosophy, he is somewhat honest, but he is also misleading …
Kel, I think you answered your own questions about this room. If the results are misrepresented in anyway then nothing this man says will ring truthful to me. I would love for my broker to conveniently leave out my losing days. I mean really. The trading room one pays for should be 100 percent transparent. If they show any deception with results then I would run far away as fast as possible. Think about what you are saying. “he is somewhat honest, but he is also misleading” You can not have it both ways. I think another review is warranted especially if people are flocking to him because of practices that he no longer is holding true to.
I started trading 2 years ago, i had no clues about the markets. I ve been in the OTG trading room in the past but didn’t wanted to take the full membership. I had the possibility to improve my trading habits and strategies a bit and went back to the OTG because i like the mental toughness of Jason, focused on explaining whats going on in the bad and in the good luck. Today … yeah right today he showed up his yearly table, with months red and green months… and he has absolutely no problems on doing so. Because its real.. because its human… because thats trading… and everybody must know that there are some months down in this business. Many… i would say… TOO MUCH rooms are all but real trading.. actually paper trading in the afternoon like the schooloftrade where JJ calls the trades on playback, and charges 500$ for a mere 2 days of morning room. Jason charges 47 dollars for 5 days and it is more than honest in my opinion. Even if i don’t trade exactly like he do i still love and appreciate his opinions and plans as daytrader. Hes very aggressive i am more cautious… but still i have to thank Jason and the OilTradingGroup if i passed my TST preparation (and obviously combine) and actually trading their moneys.
Just too funny. “Honest Trader” and “Real or Fake”, did Jason pass out a script to post and offer a free month if you post it? 2 Alias posting the exact same post. I hope you are not going to make up 10 more alias and post the same thing.
No, I didn’t see how to change the automatic name. I was hoping Emmet would delete the first one. Same post, my blunt observations.
I did not even know there was an automatic name.
ROFL
I trialed Jasons room and found him to be honest and upfront about his trades. I see that he knows how to trade and he also understands how difficult trading can be, and shares that as well.
Jason however does over trade terribly trying to prove he is right and the market is wrong, bad idea, very bad. He will get into up to 8 reentries at one point, usually 2 to 4, before it works or takes him out with large losses. Be careful of this fact. The problem with that is that he is changing the risk to reward model of his trade entry from 1 Risk to 6 Reward to 6 Risk to 6 Reward. He should stop doing that and search for a better entry. You can tell he gets emotional after entering a trade. He then keeps trying to reenter over and over again until he makes large losses and then closes the room.
1. My advice to you Jason because I think you are a great trader is to stick to your entry the first time and don’t enter again.
2. Take the time to teach your methods. The room would be worth more to customers if you would stick around after your large losses, sometimes 3 days in a row, and review what you did or consider the customers and help them take more trades.
3. Have a longer trial period. 2 or 5 days is simply not enough and I think you do this to hide your eventual upcoming days of loss. Its a numbers game in marketing I suppose but you are a good trader and good teach so make that change and people will stay with you.
4. Provide a monthly subscription service to you room for nominal cost, maybe $100 per month. Again you are a great trader and people will stay and support you.
5. Get ride of Dave Hammond. He is annoying and not helpful to the room. You constantly had to remind him to help the customers do things that he is supposed to be doing. Get someone more efficient at helping you build the business and serve the customers, not annoy them.
6. Post daily videos even when you have losing days. You had 3 large loss days in a row and only posted 1 of them. You left the room frustrated and that doesn’t do a service to your customers.
You are certainly a great trader using your own technique I have no doubt about that. With some of these modifications above you would make us great traders too I strongly believe.
I only decided to voice my opinion because I really liked your room, except for the things noted. I want to help you because I see that you are true, honest and very good at what you are trying to do.
I trialed Jasons room and found him to be honest and upfront about his trades. I see that he knows how to trade and he also understands how difficult trading can be, and shares that as well.
Jason however does over trade terribly trying to prove he is right and the market is wrong, bad idea, very bad. He will get into up to 8 reentries at one point, usually 2 to 4, before it works or takes him out with large losses. Be careful of this fact. The problem with that is that he is changing the risk to reward model of his trade entry from 1 Risk to 6 Reward to 6 Risk to 6 Reward. He should stop doing that and search for a better entry. You can tell he gets emotional after entering a trade. He then keeps trying to reenter over and over again until he makes large losses and then closes the room.
1. My advice to you Jason because I think you are a great trader is to stick to your entry the first time and don’t enter again.
2. Take the time to teach your methods. The room would be worth more to customers if you would stick around after your large losses, sometimes 3 days in a row, and review what you did or consider the customers and help them take more trades.
3. Have a longer trial period. 2 or 5 days is simply not enough and I think you do this to hide your eventual upcoming days of loss. Its a numbers game in marketing I suppose but you are a good trader and good teach so make that change and people will stay with you.
4. Provide a monthly subscription service to you room for nominal cost, maybe $100 per month. Again you are a great trader and people will stay and support you.
5. Get ride of Dave Hammond. He is annoying and not helpful to the room. You constantly had to remind him to help the customers do things that he is supposed to be doing. Get someone more efficient at helping you build the business and serve the customers, not annoy them.
6. Post daily videos even when you have losing days. You had 3 large loss days in a row and only posted 1 of them. You left the room frustrated and that doesn’t do a service to your customers.
You are certainly a great trader using your own technique I have no doubt about that. With some of these modifications above you would make us great traders too I strongly believe.
I only decided to voice my opinion because I really liked your room, except for the things noted. I want to help you because I see that you are true, honest and very good at what you are trying to do.
TOP STEP TRADER IS MAKING MONEY OFF OF RETAIL TRADERS BY CHARGING MONTHLY FEES FOR TRYING TO GET INTO THE FUNDED TRADER PROGRAM.
HOW MUCH MONEY DOES TOP STEP TRADER MAKE FROM PLATFORM, DATA AND USER FEES?
HOW MUCH FROM TRADING ACCOUNTS OF FUNDED TRADERS?
HOW MANY PEOPLE TRY AND FAIL COMPARED TO THE SMALL NUMBER WHO SUCCEED?
Great questions, John.
I feel exactly the same way about a Job in the world out there.
How much does the employer make off of me?
What % is charged or deducted from each pay period?
How many people make more than me?
But, not to be a jerk. Regardless of the fees charged, the percentage split, the question comes down to, do you have a strategy that works within the parameters of TST in your favor. To me, it was about possibilities, but the structure had to make sense.
I went from driving with Lyft and Uber to getting a funded account, so I was pretty excited. It took some time to get funded but it was available even after messing up a couple of times.
Now, if I had 100k in the bank just sitting around, would I be going through TST or just opening the account. Now, knowing what I know, I would do both so I can double my positions and run the strategy on both platforms.
I could open a 50k retail account and say spend maybe 1k or less to get funded, might take 2 months, but at least I still have a live account to trade while getting the other one processing to get funded.
I apologize for all the grammatical errors, Grammarly is doing the best they can for me, and I dropped out of college, so depending on different individuals financials, social class, position in life, I am sure they are able to make a good decision as to what is best for them.
But to answer your question about how many ppl succeed, that I know of in the TST Chat Room for Live Traders there are a good solid 50+ I see consistently there and then there are others who go live, blow up, go live, blow up, Re-Dev … doing their best to stay in the game. Then I also notice other live traders that rarely login.
Best Mate!!
Playing this recording with music instead of listening to the trader, Jason Love, speaking and talking about the trade he is in is a scam and a fraud.
You sound like a shill for Jason Love, now. in my opinion…
I have watched Jason make bad trades, move his stops and get his stoploss hit after holding out for more than 30 minutes and hoping for a bigger gain.
I have heard his comments when the market reverses right after hitting his stops and goes to his target price. He missed the pullback trade in my opinion…
Real trading is not neat and pretty. Jason proved that to me in his live trade room.
Money management means stopping your losers before they wipe out your account. Losing $1,000 in 30 minutes is not esay for us retail traders.
Hi Emmett, after reading both your reviews and the comments, I have these observations:
1. You seem to have a double standard with OTG. With other vendors, you are adamant in getting verifiable statements. With OTG, you appear to be more sympathetic by saying “And this is the reason why Jason does not openly post results because with numbers like this, whom would subscribe? ” in one of your comments.
2. If the TopStepTrader combine can be tried multiple times, with my limited knowledge in Statistics, the success with TST becomes meaningless, unless we also know how many times Jason has failed to pass the TST; or, Jason makes it public BEFORE he tries and report the results.
why OTG never reveal it’s verified result for the past few months?
probably because they’re on a losing streak. The OTG review is old, at a time when Emmett was far more lenient and hopeful and could be fooled by faked “proof” and faked credentials such as fake wharton phd snapshots or slimy yet charming Primo-types. . Just that he’s busy so many other shams he hadn’t been able to update all the past reviews. If enough former OTG duped clients complain to Emmett with unfortunately savings decimated and bigger cc debt stories then an OTG update would more likely be on the short update list of tradingschools.
Hey Jim,
Point 2 Taken, but TST uses a 3rd Party to verify the trades. They aren’t able to remove trades from Rithmic Trader. If you say that Jason has tried multiple times then post, well its a lot of work with the first-hand experience.
Let me try my best to explain. With the screen shot, look at the days consistency, look for gaps, if he only wants to make it look good with consistent winners, that mean he has to have multiple combines, log in to one and not the other trade it like the other one, and it takes too much work. I understand the skepticism.
But some people are making it happen, and I can post a picture of my sucky stats. I am just an amature at trading.
I crossed out the account number for privacy. I have a terrible average of 57% winning, but I only trade 1 contract. I am not the most discipline trader in the world, but working towards that direction.
But, If you have questions, I would be more than happy to answer you. I am in no way affiliated with TST or get compensated by them even though I feel that I should haha.
The money withdrawal also isn’t from TST but its from their Equity partners.
Emmett………your review and update seems to be agaisnt recent comments by readers….have you a latest update ?
Yes any update?
Hi Emmett,
I have noticed Jason has ventured to a new format, by bumping up his contracts. I dont know where he is in the P&L game, but I assume it’s not going well? or low on the dough??Anyway …trading a 150k paper account is a good as me dating one of Lamar Odems’ pricey ladies.
It’s not relevant. The time that Jason placed his trades in aboves pics is like a cat on a hot tin roof the trades were only seconds long. As I have been in his room his trades are sometimes an hour. BTW. I am not discrediting his profitability, because I dont know. I have personally checked as I have recieved confirmation anybody that is not registered can show their trading accounts statements etc.
Do you have an email for contact?
tks
Steve
“As good as you dating one of Lamar Odoms pricey ladies”…LOL! Had me laughing out loud. Great analogy. Regarding Jason, he is now trading a live $15k account and posting the actual results. Not to toot my own horn, but I got him to trade a single unit, small account in hopes of showing that a small lot trader can actually make it. Has been doing this for a few weeks and is up and down, a bit over break even.
Trading a 3 unit is a heck of a lot easier than trading a 1 unit.
Jason is a good guy. One of the few. I have good correspondence with several of his ex students that are now trading without his help, and actually doing quite well (yes, I verified). Its good when a student absorbs all that he can and then takes the next step and is independent…showing good results.
Emmet, nothing in this updated review discredits those who gave Jason bad marks in your original review.
Top Step Trading — from those experienced with it — seems to be a scam — I believe getting TST mixed up with Jason’s review is a mistake, FWIW.
I agree with what morgan says.
Also, looking at the video included in this post, it looks like Jason could not guess well the direction of the market and tried to force his way through like an amateur. He was wandering, long and short like a chicken, exposing his trading account. Overtrading and inefficiency. Does he really make money- trading like this.