Investors Underground
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Honest
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Quality
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Cost
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Support
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Verified Trades
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User Experience
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Summary
A slippery hustler of a penny stock promoter that has figured out how to parlay sophisticated Pump And Dump deception into a new venture of selling worthless DVD’s and subscription trading advisories.
A Closer Look At Nathan Michaud and Investors Underground
Investors Underground
Underground Scan Advisory
In today’s review, we are going to take a closer look at Nathan Michaud of Investors Underground and Investors Live. Both Investors Underground and Investors Live are stock day trading rooms that offer live trading recommendations for a monthly fee of either $197, or $297. In addition to a live trading room, Nathan Michaud also markets and sells an educational DVD titled Textbook Trading for $1,197 and another educational DVD titled Tandem Trader for $1,147. Both of the DVD’s proclaim to teach you all of the techniques and talents that you will need to make money. How much money? A lot. Millions of dollars. In fact, on Profit.ly, Nate proclaims verified gains of $6,700,000 from the Investors Underground subscription advisory, as well $226,000 from the Underground Scans advisory, and then finally a profit of $4,180,000 for the Underground Elite advisory. The following are proclaimed to be verified gains from actual account statements that were uploaded directly from brokerages and are certified “tamper proof”. The profit.ly platform was designed and is maintained by Mike Mosseri, whom I have conversed with multiple times regarding the veracity, honestly, and robust fraud prevention techniques at Profit.ly. Mike Mosseri stands by these numbers.
Investors Underground Eliteveracity and authenticity of his platform.
Tamper Proof Millions?
As I look at these equity curves, I really am amazed at the marvelous slope of profits. In only a short period of time, just by purchasing a DVD and copying the Investors Underground Trades, I too can have the possibility of starting with nothing and being a multimillionaire within a couple of years. And since all of this comes with a guarantee that all of these trades were executed, why should I not just quit my day job and become a millionaire trader just like Nathan Michaud?
Is Profit.ly Really Real?
Well folks, unfortunately Profit.ly is literally a vipers den of hustlers and cons submitting fake trading data. In fact, I am so sure that Profit.ly is total BS that I set out to be the VERIFIED WORST TRADER on Profit.ly. You can read about the BS of Profit.ly by reading either of my previous posts Located HERE and HERE.
Back To Nathan Michaud
One of the things I enjoy about Nathan is how well he markets his service, and the slick approach that he executes the marketing strategy on a daily basis. On one platform….Profit.ly, he is active and uses the platform as a proxy performance location where “real trades”, from supposedly real account statements are posted. Profit.ly is a massive traffic source that lead directly to his website. Which of course is strangely devoid of any Profit.ly charts showing those multiple million dollar trading profits. And so, on one hand Nathan is using the implied third party credibility of Profit.ly, and on the other hand, which is his website, he does not need to show massive trading profits. Showing massive returns on his main website only opens him up to scrutiny. However, Nathan was always not so careful, in fact he used to constantly trumpet his Profit.ly success on his main website. You will not find any trace today, however if you were to peruse Archive.org and search www.investorsunderground.com, you will find that Archive.org actually randomly saves screen shots of previous website images and text. The image that you see to the right was scraped from 
Archive.org. I dont know about you, but verified profit of $9,000,000 for Investors Underground seems a little rich. The best part is that this supposed profit happened over ONE TRADING DAY. Amazing! Sign me up!
Of course, I have had quite a few doubts for several months about Nathan Michaud. I have reached out to him multiple times. I always ask the same things, can you send me a spreadsheet of the trades that you called live in your trading room? I want to see if the live calls inside the live trading room really match up with the Profit.ly services. Ask, ask, ask. I try and try and dig for the truth. Thus far, the only thing that Nathan will provide are the logs inside the chat room. He says that everything is revealed in those logs. What you see below are a typical day’s trading logs, which contain all of the proof that I need (so says Nathan). Have a look…the following log is from March 11, 2015, and according to Profit.ly, nearly $100,000 in verified trading profits were accumulated during this single trading session. See if you can find the profits, this is what Nathan Michaud sent me, this is supposed to constitute as proof of his trading success.
UntitleddocumentWell, if you are like myself, after reading this hodgepodge of word scramble, then you are probably more than a little confused. However, perhaps confusion and misdirection are all part of the ruse? Perhaps there is a certain genius to the method of providing information from source A, which implies credibility and then using this information to induce someone to take action at source B. I dont know, but the more I look at this and think about this, the more this whole thing appears to resemble a stock manipulation or a pump or dump. Did I say pump or dump? Yes. Lets continue.
Slick Marketing, Deception, Pump And Dump, Nathan Michaud
How did Nathan become such a deceptive marketer? The truth is that he got his start a few years ago as a pump and dump con artist. What is this? A pump and dump is where a slick internet marketer colludes with a penny stock operator to create artificial demand for a virtually unregulated security. The scheme is pretty simple actually, you create a bunch of internet press releases touting some incredible breakthrough for a little known company, and then have several counter parties that hold large portions of virtually worthless penny stock trade huge quantities of worthless stock among themselves. The effect is to create a massive amount of hype, fake wealth creation and huge trading volume. The volume, internet hype and hysteria begins to take on a life of its own and the price of the worthless penny stock spikes higher. Once the spike hits, the promoters quickly dump the shares of stock for a profit. The little guy with the stock trading account loses his money. Pump and dumps are fraud. But at their heart, its all about deception. Creating the illusion of something legitimate and exciting happening at location A, while steering the target into location B, and location B is where the profit motive is executed. So, within the context and relationship that Profit.ly and Investors Underground currently coexist, it becomes highly apparent that Nathan Michaud has taken his learned power of deception in promoting penny stocks into a similiar parallel relationship in selling fraudulent investment advisory services. Great for Nathan. Probably not for you.
Digging Deeper
Some of you might not need to read any further. However, if you are interested in learning more about Nathan and the pump and dump culture, you really need to understand some of these colorful characters. In Nathans last pump and dump, he was fined nearly $100,000 from the Securities and Exchange Commission. You can read all about the complaint below, I found the scheme quite interesting and reveal that depths and levels of deception that some of these characters will explore…
nathanmichaudfraudThe Criminal Investigation
The document that you read above is the result of the SEC and a civil investigation. However, once in a while a civil fraud investigation will be so egregious and damaging to the public trust that the SEC will refer activities contained within the civil complaint to the Department Of Justice for criminal prosecution. The SEC is civil, the Depart of Justice works with the FBI and that means fail time. If you follow the progression of the criminal complaint, you will find that 6 of the 8 original defendants all served lengthy prison sentences. One defendant in particular, Pawel Dynkowski has yet to be arrested and remains a fugitive. Of the original 8, I was curious about Nathan and how he and one other person escaped prosecution.
Last month, I contacted Investors Underground and asked if Nathan would like to comment on the civil and criminal portions of the case, specifically how his co-defendents went to prison and he avoided it. He proclaims that he is innocent and since he did not go to prison, this proves his innocents. However, the truth is a little more complicated. I next contacted the US Attorneys office that prosecuted the criminal portion of the case and requested comment. They would not speak with me. However, the investigator for the Securities and Exchange Commission was more helpful. We talked about the case, the particulars of these types of frauds and how these cases are typically resolved by cooperative individuals that agree to talk, cut a deal to explain the intricacies of the scheme, and pay a fine. Such is the case of Nathan Michaud. His close insider testimony was crucial in the SEC’s investigation. In short, the smaller fish, Nathan Michaud avoided criminal prosecution by ratting on the bigger fish, Matt Brown and various other participants. In addition to cutting a deal to avoid criminal prosecution, he also paid a fine of nearly $100,000.
I dont know about you, but a fine and the actual paying of $100,000 is serious. Nathan can claim that he is innocent and that he was actually the victim. But in speaking with the case investigator at the SEC, and asking the investigator if Nathan was actually the victim brought out a long and hearty laugh. In fact, the investigator said that the people that operate these pump and dump schemes are rarely ever prosecuted, and to think that these defendants had not operated many times prior, and many other frauds is a laughable prospect.
Wrapping Things Up
Nathan Michaud has a huge amount of customers. Many of whom act like he is some sort of financial Jesus. I will definitely be lambasted and attacked for writing this review. But at the end of the day, I have written what I believe to be the truth. And the truth, to me is pretty obvious. The obviousness of this is that Nathan Michaud has parlayed a career of scamming penny stock investors, into a new career of selling bogus educational products. He has taken the same basic principle of deception and moved it a new medium, a new platform. Well that’s if for today and thanks for reading. Don’t forget to leave your comments below.
Wow $9 million in a day! This guy is going to be a trillionaire soon!
What would you recommend? I’ll admit that you’ve probably saved me thousands but every review on here in 3 stars or less
Hey Emmett, if Mentors like Investors Underground of Warrior trading are scams, why do they get such good scores at daytradereview.com or ticker.tv
Is this a serious question Valentin? How do you think daytradereview and ticker.tv make their money? It’s not by giving bad (honest) reviews of mentors (scam artists) like Investors Underground and Warrior Trading.
Hey, this Nathan guy has been sending me email for days. I checked earlier. And thank god, I found this piece. I mean I should thank you. Many other search results on the Internet are all just bragging about how excellent a trader Nathan is.
Okay, anyone with any honest experience in the field can see right through the bullshit of Nathan Michaud and his band of clowns. Have I ever subbed him? No.
Do you know what an IB is? An introducing broker? Instead of an official front business, Nathan and the gang are just the face of the same scheme: to pump liquidity into a particular or multiple markets/stocks. They get paid for that kind of maneuver, whether by the company or the trading platform they’re always pumping.
People who sub “Investors” Underground are literally paying twice: the front membership, and the shearing at the rear. Do I blame most people for being so dumb? Yes. Did you learn a lesson yet? Depends. Learn the ropes or go ahead and hang yourselves with them. All forms of skill are self-applied. Expecting a ‘guru’ to teach you will get you what you deserve. BTW Mr. “17 years” below, you obviously don’t have a clue about what you’re doing, find another career.
Nathan is just another artist roping in the starry-eyed. He cheers on his charities in order to ease his suffering conscience, but the fact is that he knows he does more harm than good. Shame. Avoid.
Pretty awesome review. I read both the original and follow up. I also am a trader of 17 years with a lot of experience. Being that trading is a lonely business and its more fun with others, I too joined this group for about 2 months. And I gave it my 100% all both in focus and attention. Try as hard as I could, I could not understand the lingo used throughout the day. A few times I did even Direct Message Nathan to ask some questions. The replies were very short, and sometimes rude. If I asked another question to quickly I was ignored. They do “threaten” the fellow traders in the room to stay 100% on topic and not talk about anything outside of stock “alerts” but even the alerts were very confusing like: Watch XYZ over/ under prices of this and that. I mean, what am I supposed to do with that information? Like I said I am not a newbie, but an experienced trader who is looking for a home of helpful traders to be with and I put my all into it and after two months could not figure them out at all. I got so little value out of it, I did leave. I think your reviews are spot on by the way. Excellent job.
I think the major challenge consumers face is once the scammer gets exposed enough to where the tactic no longer works, he/she will move on to another medium only to continue the fraudulent behavior(just in another form). Emmett according to you, Nathan Michaud could be a prime example of this i.e. moving from pump & dump schemes to selling “worthless” educational products about trading. I still think its important to continue to raise awareness about these people especially in this unregulated space of selling so called “trading education and mentorship” through online chatrooms and overpriced DVDs. I hope people will continue to participate in this discussion.
that figures, i watched a couple hours of one of his earlier products, and it just didn’t make any sense to me. I mean i expected to understand at least half of it, but it just seemed to be mumble jumbo, i couldn’t even understand 20% of it. so now i understand, the whole thing was probably 80% bs. and now he’s got this investors charity thing going on, it figures he wants everyone to believe he’s also a good guy. and every picture of him he’s got a big smile. damn, just another con artist conning the fools who doesn’t know any better. but maybe he is successful, i doubt it. I think he doesn’t make nearly as much and i wouldn’t be surprised if he is a net loser trading legitimately
Good to see a truthful posting about Michaud and his fraud ring. InvestorsLive is good at promoting his trading service, posting fake reviews online, and recruiting affiliates to market his products, but the truth is he is nothing but a snake oil sales person selling a get rich quick scheme. The chatroom is BS, the trading “strategy” is complete BS and I haven’t seen one person profit long term using this strategy. Sure a few traders in the “IU” group get lucky and have some big profitable days, but in the end all of them end up blowing up their accounts and vanishing off twitter. Derrick Leon, BullZone, Shamran just to name a few. There are many more of these bogus traders.
Doesn’t look like it’s over 1 month. Modern rock even recommends him and doesn’t like sykes and hates gurus..
Emmet what about Tim Sykes do you have to say if you say all this about Michaud ???
thanks for the review. I realized that they’re nothing but scam artists when i got to talk to them prior to subscribing.
Interesting: looks like Investorslive LLC submitted a DMCA takedown request due to the embedded chat transcript: https://www.lumendatabase.org/notices/12045903
Any comment?
Nate should hire a lawyer and just sue me. A few have attempted…until they discover something called a deposition. And then a subpoena duces tecum. And then the truth becomes public.
Ha! Nate the scum fraud must be feeling the effects of Emmett’s review in his hip pocket. Good work Emmett you are making a difference.
Same talk as all the other alert rooms or newsletters. “trade accordingly”. some try to sell extra “courses” on download videos or dvd’s for more than the monthly rate of the alerts/room. A retailer can just set up their platform to check for stock movers. It’s like when simple indicators used to be special addons in the 90’s. Now platforms have all the old indicators for free and many have built in scanners that one doesn’t need to pay an alert monthly service for.
What a post full of Misinformation
No Issues Here. Love these guys!
I have been with UI for 2 months now, I have had no issues so far!
I am a member and have no issues
Wow.. all the negative comments here are all losers who lost money in market and don’t know how to trade. I’m not a member of IU chat, but I have watched Textbook Trading and several others. All of u complaining about not getting “alerts” are idiots.. chatrooms and twitter all talk about the same momentum stocks for that day.. it’s simply a live scan that gives u a watch list for that day.. those stocks have the most eyes on it so volume is way up . That’s the only alert you need.. u watch the stock and trade accordingly and react.. backtesting, support/resistance, news, patterns nearing hod, potential breakouts, dips, consolidation, pullbacks, higher lows, etc etc etc… there’s money to be made throughout the entire day at any moment.. those waiting for “alerts” … nvm, I’m done.. I’ve wasted enough time reading these comments and blog post from a former crook who’s probably broke, and wasting his life away with this pathetic blog.
Oh brother!! Another faithful card carrying member,,,,,
Will be interesting to see if you have any updates on risk management for stock rooms considering a few of them recommended $KBIO swing short. many accounts likely blown today. Sad and unfortunate for new traders. Bests.
Hey i m part time activetrader in iu trading. The first day i traded with nate. I lost because i followed him in a short sell trade without knowing how to trade. But from then every trade i lost. i learnt from it. Trading is an art. It doesn’t just happen. For some people yes. But for most it takes time. His teaching is not bogus but one has to first learn it for some time. Yes he was a penny stock trader but he did told every one about it . and he moved from penny stock trading to big tickers. Which we trade. His main style is short selling . and yes it is an art that one can learn . i m now catching up to it . it takes time for me its been 1.7 year. and when you say codes in chat room. Learn them . understand them . understand what they mean relating to live trading . To me they are trade plans given out in live chat. You can learn all those from his dvds. But trust me one should watch them like 10 times . Now those codes make no secrets for me. When i started it was aweful but i kept going kept loosiwinkept learning. Its an expensive hobby or part time work for me. But its not main source of income . as i m a doctor. Its a hobby for me and i never use huge some of money as some traders in the chat use. But i can swear on this from the day i started 1.7 year ago ( the first trade i made because nate mentioned what he was doing on chat btw he lost alot of money on that trade and he didnt hide it from the rest of members ) and til now i can tell the difference. Now i am much better . i can see in advance and predict or anticipate how the trade will work. I can now actually get in trades and get out making profits . and i have done it throughout the trading day. Example of this . Take a look at it VRX chart trading last friday. i.e intraday chart. How i knew about VRX because nate mentioned it in his daily scans thursday night. Ok now if u know how to trade which i have learned from nate. No doubt he mention in his scans short selling this ticker. And thats what happened. If you were a member you could have seen it. Contact me and i may send u the scans from thursday night and then show u my trades on it. although as i mentioned i trade for hobby and excitment ( adrenaline rush ) i didnt bet alot of money. I was trading only 10 to 40 shares of this Ticker at a time. My whole idea is that he is legit and his method and strategy works. But he charges to teach you. Just like when i went to school . they charged me huge amt of money to teach me veterinary medicine. Lol Trust me i have meet a few gurus out there on line. Also i m not saying that his idea or strategy method always work. He has lost money in trades and in trading. And i have seen it in chat when he is running to get out of positions . he is no God . trading is trading. You do loose . but you do win too. If you have experience and know how the stock will be moving you win more then lossing. And thats how your acct grows big and bigger.
I think i will be better off at 2 year experience. But i m very satisfied with nate and his service. To me his service is now showing me what it is to trade reasonably after 1.7 year . i also thought at time he is bogus and must be lieing. But now i know after some time all his teaching is legit. Because it is making sense. But please yes you r right its a marketing curve to show one can become milluonaire in short time. Only few have done it. But those were lucky or gifted with trading. But most 95 percent we have to work at it and take beating at a time for atleast 1.5 o 2 year . trading is exciting ans challenging . but requires such a disciple that one has to learn for years to aquire it. Which he teachs no doubt in that.
Nate IS GOOD AT marketing but his trades suck and he knows it. That is why he sells you his DVDs. He used to be with tim sykes who in my opinion is a marketing genius but idiot trader.
I was in the IU chatroom about a year ago or so. I have to say, from my point of view, it’s not many ticks away from being a sham show. The videos have absolutely nothing to offer than goes beyond hundreds, if not thousands, of videos you can find on YouTube. The best resource on the site is Michelle, Most people join these kinds of services because they are looking to cut down the learning curve and pattern themselves after someone. That’s impossible to do on IU. There’s a ton of coded language and the site tries to make sense of it but it’s just ineffective. What you are doing by joining this service is giving money to people to cover their trading losses. Who’s covering yours? In my opinion, there’s no substitute for learning, and in my experience being in the chatroom was a distraction and disservice to my own learning. It took me a long while to undo some poor habits and misunderstandings picked up there. So, sure, go ahead and give someone your money to make yourself feel like you’ll get some new tools. The new tools you’ll get will be to not waste your time on nonsense like the IU or other trading chatrooms. Just my two cents.
Thanks for the comment. Michelle is the only one I found of value. Too bad she doesnt leave IU and focus on her own site. She could be a valuable resource to traders.
I was in IU for a three months. I agree with you about Michelle. I too told her to break out on her own and she did not. Nathan just kept ramping up the incentives for her to stay. I have seen the DVDs, and in spite of what some say, they are terrible.. It is not a proper education, and Nathan is abnormally hyperactive. I agree with you 100% on your opinion of IU services and chat. Caveat emptor!!
I purchased the original Textbook Trading DVD, watched it over and over. And I was in the chat-room for a long time. It caused months and months of frustration and anger. Awful experience. Took me a while to get back on track and start trading again.
Well, I’ve spent 3 months in IU and did a bundle with Tandem Trader. I figured if I could offset the cost with the trading alerts it would basically be free. I have done that, but the chat is restricted to where you are not allowed to post unless you are alerting an entry realtime. This works ok if you are just wanting to be fed entries, are the alerters entering? That is really irrelevant, because in the end it is up to you to enter or not. The TANDEM DVD is okay; I did get some info from it, but like anything else, look hard enough and it won’t cost you $1K+. My membership is ending and won’t renew, I don’t recommend IU because unless you are part of the inner group you pretty much don’t have a chance to get acquainted with anyone else. If you just want alerts of entry than this may work for you, don’t expect to give input. If you see Nate give an entry make sure you read the LINGO page, sometimes it is difficult to figure which way he is playing (long or short), if you need to ask make sure you use the pm or you will be “muted” and basically just be able to read the chat. I’m indifferent about this board, I’ve used others and it basically provides the same info during chat, except less frivolous posts. If you must have some sort of chat, pick a cheap one because basically, in the end, everyone is trading whatever stock is currently in momentum.
Thanks for the input, much appreciated.
I was a member of IU chat room for 3 months. It motivates you to become a better trader, sometimes gives good entry signals and trading ideas.
The trading strategies from the Textbook trading DVD create an illusion of “holly grail” of trading, and don’t teach risk management, which is, by my opinion, the most important ingredient of a successful trading system.
You hear in the chat room and on the website about the members making thousands per day, try to do the same using the methods they teach, but you end up loosing money. Why? They will tell you: “It’s because you didn’t buy our DVDs”.
I am not sure about that….
Thanks for the comment Adrian. Investors Underground needs to report trades, this is the only way to verify if any of their stuff works. Avoid until we see some transparency.
Interesting review, I think there is some misinformation and this is a little biased.
You haven’t even seen textbook trading and tandem trader? Nate covers this incident in both. There’s always 2 sides to every story, would have been nice if you had written about his side.
Almost seems like you have a vendetta for these guys or just trading gurus in general? I think the point you’re trying to forcibly get across to the readers is that “these guys don’t trade they just sell their services”
The reality is that any beginning, intermediate or even advanced trader – has a MUCH greater chance of success in the market with support like chatrooms and proper education than just trading the market alone.
The business side of things, its just a business – I appreciate guys like this. Given the opportunity I’d certainly be using my skills and talents to make money. What the fuck you think Tony Robins does bro?
Similar to what you’re doing now? Writing a pretty biased review for click bate which I’m sure you use for affiliate marketing. You gotta do what you gotta do, no big deal. I just think the length you’ve gone to put him under the microscope is pretty hardcore given you haven’t even watched his learning materials or traded as a member in the community?
Maybe be truthful about you’re own agenda and how you’re making money “exposing” people on your blogs. You need something to write about right?
Fair enough comment. My critique is really about transparency. As you are probably aware, there a lot of folks selling trading services, all claiming to be highly successful traders. The only way for me to separate the educators is to verify trading performance. Its an amazingly simple idea. And is it really so much to ask?
Vibes I’d agree with your statement “The reality is that any beginning, intermediate or even advanced trader – has a MUCH greater chance of success in the market with support like chatrooms and proper education than just trading the market alone.” except that it’s clear from the reviews of IU’s chat room on sites like investimonials that new traders aren’t getting the support they need in the chat room. Questions aren’t answered, responses if they are given are brief, unhelpful and often rude and as for Nate’s educational materials (DVDs) they are rubbish for the price he is charging. A new trader would be better off going into a bookstore and buying 3-5 books on trading rather than $1,000 on the crap that Nate passes of as trading education.
Agree, Nate is a whimper baby, crying every time traders ask him the same question. Those are his paying clients. The dude has no idea how much work it takes to make money in the real world.
This review is my honest and scrutinized opinion.,unbiased .I was a member of IU for 2 months .I am trading about 2 years now .Cant say very successful But consistent .I have tried different newsletters – like Tim’s Penny silver . i heard a lot about IU so thought to give a try .Then i joined and was there for 2 months .
First of all , $197 p/m for IU standard is pricey .Their aim to advertise to make this community for both new traders and experience traders .so most of the traders (newbie) who takes good amount of time to be make money ,$197 a month is definitely expensive for them also if you add software fees , L2 ,brokers fess etc.
Secondly there are no alert from nate and other moderators .I know alert service is not good to be blindly followed but it is definitely helpful to understand the trade plan to be educated and to support ( from a pro trader) your trade idea on a particular stock ( if you already have before alert)
It is for sure that IU is a great community for all pro traders But most of them (95 % ) do not participate any ideas ,discussion , watch list ,trade plan in the chatroom . Which is more annoying is that most of them do not response to you if you ask some trade related Q or any other kind of advise You feel like a dickhead and left alone! They are already successful so why they have to care about you !They will discussing ideas among good friends – Nate,modern rock ,d4ytrad3,elkwood etc. But i assumed that as it is a paid chatroom ( specially $197 pm ) so I expected more than nate’s watchlist !
Thirdly you have to be very careful ( newbie ) when asking Q because IU love to Gag ppl .Most of the ppl in the chatroom do not ask nonsense questions but also for some funny reason IU moderator are very sensitive .It is rather a chatroom for elite pro traders with their alien discussion ( terms / phrase difficult to understand for new trader ) than a free discussion of trade plan which actually can be useful in a day trade making some real money than showing off who is more knowledgeable and smart !!!
Fourth Nate hardly trade stocks between $1 – $5 , Most of his trades based on over $10 – $100 ,which is not convenient for small accounts ( I think most of the start-up traders have small account )No one can grow a small account with a high price stock because most of your money involved in one high price stock trade !
Fifth Nate and other traders do not mention their entry exit , profit ,loss etc in the chatroom .So you are blindly following a GURU not knowing what is his activity .I think it is very important to get motivated if you know how is your Guru performing.
Overall it is a great community for Pro trader if you want to make friends , share trade ideas and praise among themselves But definitely confusing and not useful for New trader because I believe with learning curve someone need to make some money while trading otherwise it is like being smart ass with no real work.
I am sure Nate is a great person and trader I like him for his humble attitude But also he needs to understand to run a paid service ,services need to be actually there .That chat room need some changes like other available chartrooms – alert , trade plan ,low price stocks , giving priority to every paid members not only friends etc. Then I am sure it will the best chartrooms among others .
I hope Nate read this and do something about it .if changes comes I will be the first to join IU again .
I’ve read several reviews of yours and I really enjoy the fact that you dig deep for facts, and not just speculate. Please correct me if I’m in the wrong, for I do not know the legal side of these sorts of things; I have both trading DVDs of Fous, Nathan, and Tim. I’d be more than happy to share these for free, if it is legal to do so of course.
It’s not legal to share that material. You and anyone who copied the content of those DVDs would be doing something illegal.
Bull. He can send them to him to watch. He never said it would be a “copy”. Nice try.
You need to think before you type Skullduggery. The only way for Mikey to “share” his copies of the DVDs legally would be to physically give his copy to someone else to watch. The chances of that being what he intends is about .01%, a little common sense would have told you that. If on the off chance that Mikey does intend to physically share his copy of those DVDs with people who contribute to this forum just let me know what day and time I can pick you up from Beijing international airport Mikey and we’ll watch those DVDs together, I’ll even buy pizza and beer.
The IU “DVDs” are not available in physical form (I have no idea why they call them “DVDs” – they are streamable video series) and it would require downloading from the IU site (I’m pretty sure this is against terms of service as no download mechanism is available) and sharing them either by copying to a fileshare of some sort or burning to a DVD, etc. Not sure about Fous/Tim/etc. but there is no legal way of sharing IU content with others.
Emmett…how can you review something if you don’t even use it. If you would go into chat than you could see Nate does his trading there, if you would look into his dvd’s you could learn the setups he is using. There is nothing wrong with you but still if you write a review you should put some time into it.
Maybe Nate has changed? I didnt see any proof of trading. And he refused to verify any real trading. And so he got a terrible review. Simple as that. If he has decided to start trading and provides a tracking function, then I would be the first to write a new review based upon the new information.
I think that Nate just considers me to be a nuisance. He doesn’t take me seriously. Which is OK.
He shows his trading receipts (proof) in the lessons
Then he should have no problem providing verified monthly trading statements. The number one sales feature used by trading rooms is the claim or big consistent profits. Providing proof of this would only boost sales. Failure to provide it can only lead to one logical conclusion.
I’ll preface this with- TRADING IS HARD. REALLY EFFING HARD. Expect to spend 2 or more years thrashing about, losing money and working your butt off. And no matter how smart you are, you may not make it, even after years of effort. You’ve heard it all before, but it’s true. Ok, my real comment: Been with UI for 7 months now and for me it’s been a great room to learn in. It’s work for sure and no one should ever blindly follow anyone there but there are some great traders and great alerts daily. Definitely no one will hold your hand but if you keep your nose clean and ask decent pointed questions during quieter times- the mods can be helpful and sometimes pleasant. I started as a novice and it was overwhelming at first but there are tons of archived webinars and if you’re motivated to do the after-hours research/work to get up to speed, (and then watch the live stuff like a hawk) you’ll figure out within a few months whether you have any aptitude for this style of trading. Just don’t blow up while following these guys along the way, especially as there’s a lot going on and not everyone (including mods) are totally transparent, though overall I think they’re fairly honest if a bit weighed down by ego. As far as disclosing personal financial information to prove trading skills- happily I’m capable of figuring out if a person will make a good trading teacher by watching their style and alerts for a few days. I’d personally rather gauge that live action than see a brokerage statement later w specifics (though there would be post- trade situations where it’d be nice to review of course). Anyway, after 7 months in IU I find that I rely on the chat less (I’m getting my own ideas and community) but there are always a few things there daily that I appreciate and in 5 months time I expect that I’ll renew. I’m not some huge pro-Nate fan boy by any means but I still feel compelled to write this review and to emphasize that the room has been a great resource for me. If you end up trying it out- beware that as a novice this is the kind of action packed room where you’ll want to be very wary of developing overtrading habits, and DO NOT develop the habit of averaging down! Those are tenacious and dastardly habits! Also since she was mentioned above- Michelle and her TOF swing service is a great place to learn, but again, it’s a LONG LONG process requiring real work and you won’t get entries / exits in a spoon fed fashion. The people in that room are top notch people, like Michelle herself. Honest, kind, serious trader folks. If I did much swing trading I’d be there more often.
Looks like Nate is breaking out the ol’ “post lots of fake positive reviews” strategy that he uses on Investimonials.
Nate is a heck of a marketer. Wouldn’t surprise me if he is peppering in positive reviews. Really, he should should just disclose trading performance and get on with it. But he wont.
I doubt it, I’m just a random middle aged woman who thinks the room is getting short shrift here. I doubt Nate knows who I am and he strikes me as the kind of person who wouldn’t give me the time of day in real life but whatever, it’s not Tinder, it’s a trading tool and I’ve found it useful.
Thanks for leaving a comment Kate. I appreciate your opinion.
Man this post is so bad. I was in his room for a year, and have both his dvds. Dvds are superb, especially the Tandem Trader one. His chat is great for setup alerts. The guy does post his entries and exits for anyone who wants to follow. I left the chat, but because I have learned a ton from these guys and am on my own with momentum trading now.
As for Nate, the guy is legit. He posts entries in chat, as well as pics of p/l on twitter. Why does he run a chat and share ideas to make more money, if he can just trade and make millions, you ask? I will tell you. What is better than having a lot of money? -Having a lot more money. Secondary income is something all smart & wealthy do.
Mr. Emmett Moore, if you are not aware that Pump or Dump is actually Pump AND Dump, then I am sure you would not recognize one. Stocks Nate alerts are BBRY and TWTR type names. There is enough liquidity for everyone there. As for low floaters, he does not alert them. Instead, he writes his plan for the setup, giving no entries or exits, followed by a discussion he calls “video lesson” after the bell.
I personally learned a lot from the guy and can recommend anyone the chat and Dvds. Of course you have to skeptical of all these gurus, but there are legit ones. You literally have no concrete evidence that Nate is fraud. All you have is a picture of an error that happened on profitly years ago (re: 9 million dollar day. Anyone with a half a brain understands that it is some kind of a mistake).
Anyway, if you want to see real guru fraud, check out Timothy Sykes.
Emmett,
I am reading and reading all the posts and after reading this one you got me (was a bit sceptical at first while I thought you are just big hater). SEC fillings is one thing you got me with. Nathan is scammer and I am feeling very naive of thinking that IU is place for people who trades stocks like peanuts. Also you should make site were everybody could verify trading results with 100% Emmett’s approved transparency!
Hi Mike,
Yep, everyone thinks I am a big hater. I am really not! I am a big lover! And desperate to write positive reviews. I need positive reviews like a parched and thirsty dog needs a big bowl of fresh cool water. But let me explain the reality…less than 5% of retail traders make money. The vast majority of trading products on the internet are creations from retail traders. And these traders are not making enough money to earn a living at trading, and so they create these trading products. When a failing trader releases yet another trading room, trading course, etc onto the internet, this trading product is just a representation of what is not working, but that they hope works. This is the reason why I write so many negative reviews…no performance disclosure from the trading educator. And so I have to investigate and dig deeply and expend resources to discover the truth. Some of these reviews take 5 minutes to read, but took me over a hundred hours of investigating and screen recordings and conversing with the educator.
There is no such thing as 100% Emmett’s approval. Why? The following quote, I believe this is from Dostovesky, “put a thief in a room full of honest men, they will soon relieve him of his watch”. What does this mean? This means that there are no honest men. We are all dishonest in varying degrees, its part of our human nature. The best I can do is catch a glimpse of the most honest trading vendors, and then quickly write about it!
If Michele is still one of the moderators at IU, then she’s awfully good at multi-tasking. I don’t participate in the TOF chat, because I don’t really care for chatrooms and also because there’s a big time difference for me. I do know she moderates her own chat at TOF because I sometimes read the logs. I just wanted to make sure that her new service isn’t tainted by any association, previous or otherwise, with IU.
if she won’t give you the time of day and cooperate in a review process because of a ‘burned bridge’, there’s really nothing I can do to change that. Thanks for all that you do and keep up the good work!
There is a spin-off swing trade service, Trade On the Fly with Michele. They do daytrades in chat, again no entry verifications. Website has swing trade ledger with entries and stops given, also % gain or loss, but no definite commitment on trades from Michele…statement at top of ledger, “I may or may not be in any of these trades”. Seems like a legit service overall. Would be a good one to review in the future.
I have heard nothing but good things about Michele. Actually, several months ago I attempted to pry her away from Underground because of the positive feedback I was receiving. Unfortunately, she got tarred and feathered with Nathan, but I really had no choice. She refuses to put any daylight between herself and Nathan. Its really a shame because, in my opinion, she has the smarts to do her own thing.
Her TOF service is separate from Nathan, but maybe she’s still connected to Investor’s Underground in some other way. Guess some of her marketing strategies are similar to Nate’s. I’ve been a member of TOF since the end of Jan.
and like the service.
If I am not mistaken, I believe she is one of the moderators at IU.
Hey, I would love to write a nice review about her. But I sure burned down the bridge to IU and there are a lot of angry feelings over their towards me. But I am always willing to play nice and build bridges back, I just need a willing partner. You should reach out to Michele and see if she is willing. One other thing, I hardly ever write a negative review to anyone that reaches out and helps me craft the message. The ONLY time I write a really bad review is when the trading educator stone walls me, ignores me, and refuses to answer honest concerns. The outright scammers ignore me. And sometimes I get a review wrong, the vendor contacts me and I rewrite the review. Nathan and his gang feel that my influence is inconsequential and refuse to engage with me in anyway.
Hi Karen, I’m a complete novice to trading and read the positive comments about Michelle. Are you still a member of TOF? if so, what are your thoughts now about TOF and what has been your experiences using the system up till now? Any recommendations for a complete beginner?
Thanks and kind regards
IU affiliation is not explicitly mentioned on her website. Some hints would be the youtube interview & DVD promo and profit.ly verification. But the link could be weaker it seams?
A quick check of investimonials site will reveal that all references to Emmett’s review of Nate and his various products have been deleted. You’re making a difference Emmett.
Emmet,
Thank you for taking the time to write this review. I’d been considering joining Investors Underground for some time now but the more I research the more skepticism I develop. I’m a “rookie” trader with not much faith in the direction the economy is heading in and don’t trust that this “bullish” market will hold much longer. I’d like to begin putting my money into a source that will be able to profit if the market is to crash again. In my research, I came across another “guru” Mike Dillard who seemed to have the same views as I. Yet, the more I research his program the “elevation group” the more negativity I come across. I want to find a source that will assist in leading me in the right direction. As you’d said, the truely helpful information today is being diluted. Do you have anyone you’d recommend??
Hi Alex,
Thanks for the comment. And I completely understand how you could feel lost in all of this crazy soup. Whom do I recommend? Nobody. Seriously. Rather, a better option would be for you to invest your time and resources into learning how to use software that allows you to test your ideas on prior data. This is the long road, but ultimately the best option.
“I’m a “rookie” trader with not much faith in the direction the economy is heading in and don’t trust that this “bullish” market will hold much longer.”
I’ll second Emmitt’s opinion that you are your best trading resource. Spread your nets wide and use logic, no single guru will teach you as fast a 2, or 4, or 8, or 16, you get the picture. And most of these people won’t charge you. I really don’t believe in trading instruction until you reach an impass and you have to pay for a diagnosis. Until then, the learning curve is so steep, you’ll have plenty to do.
1. Most people lose, so DOING what everyone else does will yield the same results regardless of your intentions.
2. Beware of gurus: People believe in gurus, so gurus pop up everywhere looking exactly like you’d expect them to look and behaving like you’d expect them to behave, and then they try to sell you something. If traders thought winners looked like transsexual transvestites from Transylvania, there’s be gurus in drag all over the internet. But trading isn’t about looking good, dressing well, speaking well, being likable, or being a good teacher. Inasmuch as profitable traders are rare, and these other qualities are too, what’s the odds you’ll find someone with all these qualities who isn’t a scammer?
3. Predictions: Everyone is obsessed with offense, but offense yields diminishing returns. These people ignore that in trading, defense is offense. For example, if I take 1000 random trades this year, with a $100k account and 1% at risk in each trade, I know from the git go I am facing $500k of losses (my stop losses) and $500k of wins. Think of this as a pile of bills on a balance scale for $500k in debt on one side, and a pile of money $500k high on the other side. Your job as a trader is to unbalance the series in your favor so you finish the year in the green. Some of that is due to edge, but again, offense yeilds diminishing returns and this is the loser’s way of going about things. In this random example I’ve created, every doller your defense prevents you from losing ALSO results in an extra dollar of profit when we cash out at the end of the year. Get it? And defense is forever. Make a $1000, I can just give it all back, but prevent a $1000 loss, it never happened and WILL factor into the year end tally. In trading, defense is offense. Spend all your time trying to wrest small defensive improvements, attack the weakest link in your process, and prevent leakage from, for example, trading when you lose, bad internet connections, excessive broker fees, input errors, and become a detailed oriented cheapskate.
4. In trading we control what we can control, trying to cap our losses and leaving our wins open ended. You cannot control a single event, but you can manipulate the whole series. Never try to fix a trade, close it. Closing those 500 bad entries early GREATLY tips the 500 random trades in your favor.
5. Trading is an emotional event for people, even more so than religion or politics. Take a look around you, are the people deeply involved in religion or politics completely rational? Do they not say things like those Republicans are all crazy? Are not the Republicans saying the same things about the Democrats? These people are genetically predisposed to be delusional, which makes them cluster and become easy prey to be harvested. Everything you see and experience in markets is utter bullshit. You mentioned Economics? Suicide. Stay away from economics, news, and especially shun peak oil and gold bugs. Believe me, I’ve been there. Have you ever listened to a friend agonize over how he’s going to tell his spouse he blew 75% of their nest egg on mining stocks? I have, it’s pretty ugly out there. Do your own thing or get harvested.
6. Time frames: You can read a 1000 books on investing and not hear one peep about risk to reward or money management. These people are scam artists too, it’s just that the feedback is slow slow in investing that they get away with it. Study day trading, then take your actual trading up to higher time frames where the winners circle is larger. Don’t bump your head against the lightbulb for years trying to scalp, go for the easy money.
Good Luck!
Brian
PS: I’d suggest Reminisences of a Stock Operator and then a few conventional books. The Darvos book is great. So is Peter Brant’s It’s a warts and all look at technical analysis from a very successful TA traders. On a similar note, Jankovsky’s last book gives a lot of great advice about what too much faith in TA can do.
And to address the issue of the markets are total bs (and I couldn’t agree more)
as well as the importance of adapting a probabilistic mindset (casino mindset)
I highly recommend not even attempting trading without first reading Trading in the Zone by Mark Douglas.
-Best
-RV
Brian … What a great explanation of the importance of risk management.
Thanks again for your many reviews, Emmett. Over the years, we have heard from numerous gurus and other traders who claim to be successful and that all they want to do is help others learn how to trade. I am sure some of them actually care about helping others. But I would bet that if one is successful at trading, they could be far more profitable playing that game then trying to sell advice. It goes to prove how gullible we all have been at one time or another. Nothing comes without a price. For example, If a million would-be traders were to buy Nathan’s trading courses, the fact is that only about 10-20% could ever be successful, at least to some degree, no matter how hard they tried. That is the way markets work; the majority are plundered, often unknowingly, in order to provide profits for the minority. I am not complaining about the system, because we all walk through that door at our own risk.
Hi Tom
I’ve been for 5 years now in market. Been through lot of rooms, but to my luck, I’m very defensive with my money and that saved me. Only last year I started making profit on constant basis.
My experience, on long term no day trading room is going to make profit. There are many reasons, but first one that promoters live and make most of their income from people in room, not their trading. Second thing, but most important, if you had a good system would you sell it, and risk for it to become less effective, or keep it to yourself and let no one even know about it?
All these rooms are good just to see what other people do, how they trade, and then find something useful you can adjust to your needs.
And from my experience, best thing would be to buy membership in some swing trade webservice. Reasons are way in favour of swing trading. You can get filled at price where you put your order, will not depend on blindly following guru. Trades take longer, few days or weeks, it’s less stress. You have time to evaluate chart and setup, have more control over risk, and almost no slippage.
For daytrading, you need experience and mental stability to succeed. And beeing in chat room takes lot of your focus from trading, DOM, charts.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers
Toby, I’m wondering if you would share what you think was your breakthrough last year. Thanks.
Thanks for taking the time to write such a thoughtful comment. The internet, social media, cheap bandwidth, and low cost screen sharing has made the barrier to becoming a trading guru, practically non existent.
People looking to market legitimate services have a difficult time having their voices heard above the noise.
And, the people that consume trading products, in order to find an honest vendor have to wade through a minefield of financial weapons of mass destruction.
Hey Emmett, have you viewed tandem trader or textbook trading? If so. Are the DVD’s worthless in your opinion? Or are they of good use. Thanks Emmett!
Hi Goldenbones,
Wish I could give you an educated opinion on these products, but I have never viewed them.
In regards to Invest Underground/Investors Live…I cannot verify that any of the moderators trade. There is a total lack of transparency. You want to only learn from proven traders. Else you will learn a flawed method, hence waste your money on worthless DVD’s and trading losses.
If you read my review on Nathan Michaud, its pretty obvious how I feel about his products. Reading my review would be a good start.
Best,
Emmett
How the fuck can u give a review without actually doing any due diligence. U are a bitter criminal. Nice history u have u fuck.
Great comment. Lol. Thanks.
My only issue with IU is lack of trading disclosure from the MODS. Its a chat room. But no accountability. Dont you ever wonder yourself if anyone over there is really trading? Or just talking about trading.
Hope to read more of your comments in the future.
He gave a review on the FACTS he reviewed. No one owes you more than that. If you want to assess those products, buy them yourself. The assessment covers exactly what it claims to cover. Clown.
The problem with mods or Nate posting trades right as they happen in chat is that new traders would just follow the trade and cause the stock to go up or down. Timothy Sykes chatroom is a good example of this happening, when he alerts a trade the stock gets a pump from followers. In IU they alert ideas and force new traders to develop their own trading strategies and ideas. If you are looking for someone to tell you exactly when to buy and sell you went to the wrong place.
I’ve gone through the videos. They are a lot of sped up live plays for the most part. The style is very hyperactive and full of Nate-ism explanations that don’t make sense unless you understand what is is saying. There is no help in helping you actually find what plays you should be playing. If you can learn from something like that, they are at least somewhat useful. Personally, when I am trying to learn something, I like someone to show me what they are doing at a pace that doesn’t require constant pausing and replaying, and use normal understandable terminology. Given that, they are not useless, but I think they are only worth a fraction of what he is charging.
Nate’s setups don’t even make sense. That’s because he doesn’t explain the setup itself. If you ran a filter looking for a certain stock, wouldn’t explaining that filter tell you what price behavior you’d be looking for? Of course it would. If I threw a bunch of symbols at you, what would you do with them?
Thanks for this detailed post. I am a trader myself but I sell no educational products and don’t try to make myself famous on social media. I have heard of these “guru” traders and, based on the hype and attention they were getting, I really thought back then that they are some master traders too that I can learn from. But the more I dug into them, the more I felt they had nothing really worthwhile to discuss when it comes to trading.
I also joined CameronFous’s chatroom last year, but after a 2 month experience of him coming in and out to make 50-50 calls (some days he doesn’t even show up at all, DESPITE the fact that all his members are paying him to be present during trading hours), I left because I knew I was better off on my own, and that all the real trading techniques are already out there for anyone who wishes to learn. Somehow my suspicion is that a big part of these guru traders’ wealth comes from their business, whether or not they can really make a living out of trading we don’t know as you’ve said, there’s no proof. I have used profit.ly before and I know how easy it is to conceal losing trades there, so their supposed “track record” on profit.ly holds no water for me
I do not enjoy writing these blistering posts. However, sometimes something good happens…they come clean and start posting real time performance. One guy in particular, “Night Scalper”, I really went after his character and wrote a scathing review. He finally started sending me .pdf’s of actual account statements, and I got to speak with the broker. Turns out that he can trade pretty darn well. I then wrote a new review and folks are clamoring to buy his products. Same goes with Trading Mission, the I really went after him. Wrote a scathing review, but instead of publishing, I forewarned him of the pending post. Now, when you go to his website the very first thing you see are actual trading results. All that I continue to verify.
Guys like Cameron Fous and Nathan Michaud need to just open up and be honest. Hopefully, we can reach critical mass with this blog, and push some of these charlatans out of business, or at least out of the business of hurting you and me.
Looks like I’m in the same boat as all of you of wondering where to turn. I wandered into this post after contemplating joining IU. Looks like I probably shouldn’t. So Emmett, do you have any advice on we can learn more about day trading. I’ve been reading a lot of books on the subject and trying to find my own style. I also belong to a chat room so that I can meet and talk to other people. I find Ross Cameron amiable and knowledgeable enough. Do you actually recommend any one and/or video tapes who I could study with and continue to learn while also improving.
Thanks for your post. I found it very helpful.
“I find Ross Cameron amiable and knowledgeable enough.”
And how is that working out for you?
Reading your post is so depressing. I stating to think my time here is a complete waste of time. When will people wake up and realize this whole industry is one big con and they are the mark??
I mean every public hedge fund, every mutual fund, CTAs and even day trading competitions returns are available to see their returns. You have a better chance at making money playing power ball than you do day trading. No one can get the fantasy returns being promised by these con artist. Even in the competition where they risk 30% to win a competition and 99% of them blow their account they can not achieve the results being promised by these scammers. If a hedge funds makes 20% a year they are doing cart wheels. And until you realize the difference in fantasy and reality you will continue to be the goat.
Is there nothing that will ever convince you? All the evidence presented her of how these con artist are posting fake results. Even using sim generators with lenient fills these con artist can not trade profitable.
And frankly I call out Emmett as part of the problem. YES Emmett!! hopefully he does not send a gunman to mow me down like the nut that went after Republicans. I have trader friends that will no longer come to this site as they think Emmett is as bad as Lying Dean Handley. Giving 5 star reviews to rooms that are lucky to show 1 month of profitability. That is not a low bar that is a NO BAR!!! All these 5 star rooms folks join and yet no one showing they can make any money from them. My one trader friend joined Watch him trade and after that said he wants no part of this site and its recommendations. Whether it be the option trader, Watch Him Trader or the swing trader B12. Who is making money with them, Please come forth with actual proof!!!!!!!!!!!
But I have learned you can lead a horse to water but you cannot force them to drink. I just hope you do not lose to much money before getting off the Kool-Aid.
Yes you can do it successfully for short periods or longer during NASDAQ bubble, but those are rare times.
************************************************
THE ENTIRE DAY TRADING INDUSTRY IS ONE BIG CON
*************************** *********************
Gosh, I hope I did not leave any doubt about my view of this industry.
For sure.. Cindy, have you read the review and commentary on Warrior Trading? The guy is exactly what the review says a scam in sheeps clothing. Even his mustache and glasses are part disguise when you consider his Jason Bond pic. I bet when the shtf one day and he ditches to go the ecuadorian poopedbeach, he’ll tear off that itchy facial hair like he couldn’t wait to get rid of it along with those fake “architect” glasses. It’s a disspointment if the material here hasnt disuadded you from WarriorTrading, or perhaps worse you are actually a shill for Ross posting haphazardly in a different review in order to get some sideways attention to WT. RobB, I hear you and some of these positive reviews bother me such as KJ which I believe is some trickery going on. I’ve had a tax class, and I still believe documents can be faked and fool even tax professionals. That said, I’m ok with Emmett having a low bar for some breakevener vendors because they are the only ones out there that newbs can experience live trading the most safely at least to the point of not losing big money. But yeah, I hear you about your friend being put off trying out that kid of watchhimtrade literally breakevening on small change live account and obviously can’t trade for a living without monthly churning some clients even transparently and it’s irritating to veteran retailers who are tired of breakevening I agree. But I guess that just goes to show a retailer trading the dream would never bother to teach or run some tradeucation business for the public and strangers. Who would they teach? probably only significant others of family or a few friends, or no one at all. I wonder if Reina, our tagalog friend is still around following the trade calls of the next sham rooms to be reviewed, hmm..
dtchurn, Rob B, it must get frustrating to sound repetitive, but I believe the truth does more good than you will know. I use to think Rob B was a little harsh, but now I know these guys are bottom feeders, making money by creating financial distress to the uninformed. There needs to be more educated investors speaking the truth about these sites. I only yearn to hear about more regulators cracking down on these charlatans.
Too Harsh!! I think I am too kind. How can one possible be to harsh regarding this industry. If I ever get bored, I will make up a big flow chart showing how all the scammers work together including the brokers even TOS, the TR operators, the fake review sites like invest-0-scamia, the fake independent reviewers like Lying Dean Handley, the fake day trading sites with fake journals like BMT, stocktwits and the few good guys like Art who are suing them and I will put Emmett in that category even though I strongly disagree with some of his reviews. Gee the more I think about it and how the odds are stacked against the individual there is no way one can be too harsh. It is David against Goliath on steroids.
Rob B., I use to think you were too harsh. What can I say? I admit to drinking the kool aid for quite a while. Now I haven’t paid for any of these clowns in years, but I definitely believed that there were some credible trading educators out there until I started reading this blog. After each review I read, I can still honestly say that it shocks me to hear the depth of the depravity. As of late, it doesn’t seem to phase me as much, but I still need to take a shower after reading the nonsense. I personally wish there were more ways for criticism such as yours to be circulated throughout the internet because the retail trader is in a no win situation.
I think Emmett is providing a valuable service despite his being duped a few times. No one else is willing to take this industry on.
Even someone like Brett Steenbarger who is a legit source of info has been duped into recommending crap like Investors Underground and OpenTrader on his blog.
I agree a few people may get hurt by a positive Emmett review that doesn’t pan out well. But compare that to the amount of people who have been hurt by someone like Big Mike and the bullshit he promotes and it’s a drop in the bucket.
Cindy, you must truly do your homework before spending a dime with a trading room or an educator. You must first understand that the claims of huge profits in a short period of time is just pure fantasy. This site has reviewed countless educators and 99 percent of them have been proven to be out right frauds. With that being said, IMHO, start out learning all the basics with the free stuff on the internet and all the books on investing and trading available. If you decide that you would like to trade going forward then create an edge that you can define and suits your personality. After you know what you want to trade and how then practice with a SIM account before using a dime of real money. Obviously, all this take time, effort and some money. After all this, most traders still fail. That doesn’t mean you will fail. It is just better to know the reality.
Scott,
I am just getting involved in trading and doing as much research as I can before jumping in. It’s so hard to tell the real from the fake in this industry and I feel like most of the ‘real’ successful traders are never going to brag on twitter or their own websites. Which makes it that much harder to make a network of honest traders. I am looking for a mentor or somebody to talk to a little more that has an honest view of getting into the industry. Let me know!
hi is it possible for y to teach me?
What a post full of Misinformation
I would love nothing more than to be wrong. And all of this can be quickly resolved by Nathan simply posting actual trading results. A simple statement of trading results can be posted on his website. A single statement, a .pdf directly from the broker. I so badly want to be made to look like a complete idiot and fool. But the truth is that Nathan will not do this. Not a chance. The Wizard behind the curtain never steps out willingly. The curtain must be torn down, and the wizard needs to come out show us that he does indeed perform “trading magic”.
Sadly, Nathan has a massive following that have raised him to Guru status. The unwashed crowds, with all of their hopes and dreams and fantasies, are all inextricably connected to a false truth. A false hope that Nathan can deliver them from their boring lives and mediocre wages.
One other thing I left out in the review was the interview that I conducted at the Lompoc Federal Prison Camp with one of Nathan’s co-defendants in the pump in dump scheme. He found it laughable that Nathan claims innocents and gave me specific details on how the fraud was executed. He says that only difference between him and Nathan is that Nathan struck a deal quickly and ratted on anyone and everyone. Not that I care really, I would of done the same. However, for Nathan to pay a fine of $100,000 and act like he is the actual victim is an insult to those of the most minimal intelligence.
I wrote a similar review regarding Cameron Fous, whom resides in an apartment less than 1200 feet from my home. My review of Cameron at Fous Alerts also requesting proof of trading success. Its been months and he avoids me like a fly avoids a spider. Hopefully, wishfully, and honestly I hope that Nathan chooses to engage me. Many will want to see how this plays out. You should also want to see how this plays out, have Nathan answer my review. Fair enough?
I was a member of IU for a year, bought my yearly subscription after I tested it for one month. I followed Nathan before on Twitter and my expectations were high. Before joining IU I spent a year. trading, reading and learning about trading. As trading was never my primary source of income (and it will never be) I was not worried if I lose money, I just wanted to learn to trade properly.
If you are starting with IU, prepare to buy at least 1 or 2 DVDs. First one is called “Textbook trading”, the second one is “Tandem trader”. Expect to find a lot of “bundle” offers and expect price to fluctuate over the year i.e. don’t buy them separately. Behind these DVDs is a group of IU friends who will promote it endlessly on Twitter and all over the internet. The content itself is very vague and lacks the serious educational approach and price is too high ($700) for this kind of content.
Expect to find a lot of chatroom language codes both in DVD and in chatroom. In the beginning you are thinking it is needed not to clutter the chatroom but then it became annoying. The moment the market opens you are bombarded with many messages from Nate and everyone which are basically useless. You will get many messages like “ss small 16 , will add to 20, be safe…” , “took some, this can rip” “bought some, this can go higher” etc… which are for a trader, especially the one who is learning absolutely useless. In the end you are left alone to trade and that is how majority feels but is reluctant to say. Which brings me to another point. There is almost a cult like atmosphere in the chatroom. Everyone is having a great day as they ”followed the rules” or they are having bad days as they “broke the rules”. You don’t have to be genius to understand the tactic of shifting the responsibility from chatroom itself and education they are “offering” to the trader. Therefore rules are intentionally unclear. Therefore you need a DVD to decode and learn the “rules”. Therefore you have coded language and pack of friends correcting and condemning you for “not following rules”. Whatever you do when you lose money it is your fault. To be clear, I don’t expect that somebody takes the responsibility for my losses but at least for $1000 and more per year you expect much more from membership, not just webinars where same things are repeated over and over. However, after a while it becomes clear that from 600 members of the chatroom only 10% have something to say and 5% are friends of the chatroom. Everybody else is silent as they accepted that they are not as good as “big traders” and one day they will be. However that “one day” usually never comes as they are in the wrong place. If you are paying your ticket to watch other people shouting coded language and congratulating each other while you are wondering why are you still losing money or you are flat, this is the great room for you.
Nate and pack of moderators are trading everything from $300 stocks to penny stocks, although very rarely real penny stocks. Again watch list for tomorrow is also vague and contains many assumptions, can be both long and short, may or may not trade etc… For many stocks if you are not with the “special broker” you can’t borrow shorts, and you can just watch others trading. Honestly, I am not sure why anyone with $100k salary would consider day trading in this room. There are high chances you will never be able to make this kind of money trading (after taxes) unless you master the game. Chatroom is definitely not going to bring you there, don’t fool yourself.
You don’t get monthly statements about Nate’s P/L , you don’t get the price when he bought and sold, it is all descriptive.
Nate is very responsive and always tries to help you if you are struggling, he replies to your messages.
To sum it up, Nate can trade, he has a pack of followers who rely on him. IU relies on your membership to have a very safe cushion should trading go awry. Nate is getting rich now and will have couple of millions aside just from your membership and DVS, not from trading. You as a trader will get very little for very big price and if you like to learn on yourself (a must for everyone in stock market) you will realize everything they have to say is already written in a better way.
Was IU member for a while…..this is an honest and accurate review!
IU chat is defintely not easy for a new trader, and honestly you shouldnt expect any detailed answers intraday in the middle of trading. Nate does a very good job of answering questions in detail during his weekly webinars, he also has an extensive archive of past webinars which pretty much answered 90% of questions i had without me needing to ask. Just my opinion thx
Nathan Micaud needs to publish his legal tax documents to prove the truth. It appears he makes his money via sucker subscribers and DVDs sales. Only a slimy business shyster would refus to do this. Anyone who disagrees with this is not thinking rationally. Come on Nathan!! Get an independent accounting firm to do this you lowlife!!