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Summary
Here we go again, another Futures Truth Magazine/Dr. Dean Handley “Global Trading Titan” turns out to be a massive fraud and a phoney. The CFTC filed an injunction to immediately halt the operations of Open Range Trading and Jody Dupont.
CFTC investigators revealed that the entire scheme was a fraud. The reported trading results were all phoney, the owner of Open Range Trading was a net losing trader with no trading account, yet traded from a simulator and faked the results.
Yet another black eye for the trading educational industry, Dr. Dean Handley, and Futures Truth Magazine.
Huge thanks to the CFTC investigators that thoroughly investigated the fraud and took action to shut it down.
User Review
( votes)Thanks for reading today’s update of Open Range Trading
What is Open Range Trading? The website is day trading educational company, with a website hosted at www.openrangetrading.com.
The business is owned and operated by a person named Jody Dupont and has been featured in Futures Truth Magazine as one of Dr. Dean Handley’s “Trading Titans” for nearly two years.
Open Range Trading operates a live day trading room priced at $250 per month and educational packages priced up to $25,000 per person.
Claims of Profitability
Open Range Trading made some very aggressive claims of profitability. A review of the Facebook page revealed nearly 100% winning days, weeks, and months.
In addition to aggressively marketing on Facebook, Open Range Trading also made claims of outrageous profitability on their Twitter account.
Dr. Dean Handley
For most people, when they see a trading educator claiming 100% investment returns, every month, for two consecutive years…they assume fraud. I think most people did. As least the sane minded folks. However, a great majority of the people that did purchase this day trading dream, did so based upon the supposed credibility of Dr. Dean Handley and Futures Truth Magazine. As a matter of fact, Dr. Dean awarded Open Range Trading the highly acclaimed “Trading Titan” award. Which is the best darn award that can be purchased for $695 down payment and $300 per
However, some folks chose to suspend common sense and instead rely upon the supposed credibility of Dr. Dean Handley and Futures Truth Magazine. As a matter of fact, Dr. Dean awarded Open Range Trading the highly acclaimed “Trading Titan” award. Which is the best darn award that can be purchased for a $695 down payment and $300 per month.
Dean Handley ReviewUnfortunately, it turned out that the supposed “real money” results posted by Open Range Trading were not really “real”. In fact, there was nothing real whatsoever. The following emergency injunction, issued by the CFTC is alleging a massive fraud. Some of the CFTC’s investigation included the following:
- Reported results were fraudulent.
- Defendant claimed to be trading with a real trading account. In actuality, defendant did not have a trading account.
- Defendant claimed to be a futures trader for 20 years. In actuality, defendant had traded for less than a year, prior to Open Range Trading.
- Defendant prior trading experience included two live trading accounts – both traded for less than a year, and both traded at a loss.
- CFTC reported that all of the trading results reported on the website, and social media account were wholesale fraud. None of the results were real, and simply created for marketing purposes.
Fielding Complaints
In the past two years, complaints of fraud regarding Open Range Trading have trickled onto the TradingSchools.Org blog. We have suggested that defrauded parties file reports with the CFTC.
Specifically, complaints should be filed with the enforcement division through the following link:
https://forms.cftc.gov/_layouts/PublicForms/TipsAndComplaints.aspx
Filing complaints is easy. And the CFTC always responds. In fact, they usually respond within 14 days. The process is simple and discreet. You will be contacted directly by a CFTC investigator and schedule a telephone interview. The interview process is simple and the CFTC investigators are thorough. Once the report is filed, then you should expect to wait for a period of several months. The investigation process takes time.
I can tell you in my own experiences in dealing with the CFTC, they are very effective. And very much not appreciated. There seems to be a large undercurrent of opinion in our society that various regulatory bodies are wasteful, bloated, and ineffective. But I can tell you from direct experience, the CFTC is lithe, streamlined, nasty, and take investor fraud very seriously. The main problem that I hear is that most people never file complaints. Once they discover that they have been scammed, they are embarrassed and want nothing more than to forget the negative experience.
But this attitude allows these financial frauds to continue to flourish and grow.
Thanks for reading today’s update. And a big thank you to the hardworking investigators at the CFTC for doing a great job. Its about time they deserved some credit.
For those interested in the details of the Open Range Trading fraud, the following is the CFTC complaint: (Dont forget to leave a comment below)
Open Range Trading
https://futures.io/trading-journals/40318-how-i-trade-living-44.html#post605928
Finally Big Mike has banned that Alex ( real name Chris) aka Rocksolid68 from his site I have been told.
I cannot confirm because I am not a member.
This guy is a 48 year old man pretending to be an 18 year old.
How bad is that. You can see some of my posts under School of Trade & Sideways Markets.
This guy starts a thread on Futures io sucks everyone in with his nonsense BS trading. Starts posting in here then when he has suckered everyone in………. HE OPENS A FREE TRADING ROOM. Yet his webpage says it’s $1500.00 for 3 months.
Well done Big Mike
@Pink Panther – I don’t know whether Big Mike banned him but his room is still free. There’s no charge listed on his site zerogravitytrading and I’ve popped in there a lot to see what’s going on, the most recent was Tuesday 1 November trading session. I’ve never paid a cent and it didn’t cost anything to join the room last session. Numbers are limited to 100 because of the software constraints. If he’s a 48 year old man he does a great job disguising his voice. I like the kid, so far he seems legit but the room is a room for traders, it’s not a place to learn trading. If he wanted to get serious about the education part of it he’d have to formalize his lessons and record them in some format, written or video.
@Stray Dog He even got banned from ebay http://imgur.com/xhD9nHF
Banned, what a shocker! You mean he is not legit. I would never have guess. Wait I did. For those that missed Alex’s room here is one of his trades:
http://screencast.com/t/5fULdxWH
But as I say 1 trade means nothing, he also had winners. But what does mean something is what I am going to talk about.
After watching Alex trade in his trading room for a while I have my assessment and it is not pretty. I can see the, “You are so Negative” post now. This might be my most controversial post yet.
First a recap. Alex and his trading room Zero Gravity became known to us by him posting a promotional ad for his new TR in the Open Range Thread. He is a self-proclaimed profitable scalper of ES. Boy I saw no evidence of that what so ever. He talks about setting the Gold Standard, but I saw the Lump of Coal Standard. Below is what I saw, but first unless a TR operator is trading a live account it is completely meaningless to real world results. As we all know you can set a sim generator to give you fills that you cannot get in the real world. I am sure some will say, “but his room is free”. Man did your mother not tell you nothing in life is free. I am sorry but this guy is not Mother Teresa wanting to give back to the community that helped him so much. But I will get back to my hypothesis of what his angle is. Here is what I saw in the TR last week:
1) And Most Important – No, Nada, Nein (see I learned something from watching Hogan’s Heros), and Không evidence he is trading a live account,
2) And worst he will not even state if he is trading live or sim (this screams Sim Nonsense Trading). So why is a self-proclaimed profitable ES scalper not trading a live account. I wonder,
3) No track record being maintained, but unless one is trading a live account a track record is meaningless,
4) Lot of indicators and I means lots, like VWAP, he claims he uses but I don’t think so, which I will explain in a little bit,
5) Every time he has a winner, he asks for member to post and some member post I made X ticks on that one, which was more ticks than Alex made. Yet nothing mentioned on losing trades from this same member. I doubt that any member took a sim or live trade and they certainly are showing no track record like Alex to know what their true performance is. One trade is meaningless. Just sounded like shills posting made up trades to me.
6) And I love this trick, when he has several losers he starts to talk about some mysterious overnight trade he made a bundle in. What complete BS.
7) BTW, he took 3 losing trades on one Friday, but again no track record so it does not say much one way or the other,
8) When a member questioned him, his shills piled on and beat him up. That screams something is wrong.
9) IMHO no one could consistently scalp ES profitable trading the way Alex does, which is why he will never show proof he is trading a live account and keep an accurate track record,
10) Oh man this one is going to be really hard to hear for the noobs. In a million years no one could learn to trade the way Alex does, which is the brilliance of the scam. Alex does not enter on any type of trigger, his entries and exits are market order button pushes and from what I could see his entries and exists are based on using the force that I guess a Jedi master taught him. And this is where the scam is so “Brillant”. For example, if he was trading an Open Range BO when certain indicators aligned, then when he eventually charges for his room or for private tutoring you would be like I can see what he is doing, so why pay. But he does not; therefore you too must spend a long time with the new Jedi Master to learn the force. The problem is there is no force, just nonsense. One of his entries he said was because price hit the 1 month VWAP. Really the 1 month VWAP was a trade. I guaranty you if price hits the 1 month VWAP next week he will not even take the trade. There was no logic to his trading. It was not like we got a BO and now a PB to VWAP lets go long. Just a lot of general talk about what the market is doing and a billion indicators to review with you.
11) So why a free room – Well first BM would label him a vendor if he charged and there goes his best source for member and PM for private lessons; his BMT journal. Though it looks like BMT finally wised up and banned this con artist,
12) My hypothesis is his angle is too build up members and then charge for his room and his training for you too can learn the ways of the force. But there also other possibilities. The room is full of so call “BMT Heroes”, some of which have their own Rock Star Journals and who are RIA. Maybe he will offer to invest for you. Lots of ways to scam people with a so called free site. NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE.
13) Hey, if you want to go to a free room check it out, but if you pay this kid one dime when he starts to charge for the room or one dime for private lessons without him showing an ounce of proof he can trade a live account profitable, then you will be the goat like so many others that have come to this site. Don’t be the goat.
Bottom line is I do not think this 18 year old kid could trade his way out of a paper bag.
But Alex can prove me wrong and shut me up and guess what I am hoping he does, because I would be the 1st one that wants to learn how to scalp ES consistently profitable (man I could become rich fast if I could do that). All he has to do is show he is trading a live account, keep accurate trading results based on brokerage statement which are also brought up live during the webinar. It really is not that difficult. Odds of it happening, IMHO; ZERO!!!!!! And that speaks volumes.
This industry is nothing but full of con artist even as young as 18 years old. Can you imagine who this kid will be scamming by the time he is 30, maybe a Saudi Sheik.
Ah Rob B we certainly need your straight talking skepticism to keep our feet on the ground. I agree with a lot of what you’ve said but I’m not as quick as you to think that it’s a scam because I can’t work out how a scam would be successfully carried out from what I’ve seen in his room. As I’ve said from the links that have been provided I can’t see any definitive proof of a scam, perhaps one could unfold but I just can’t see why anyone who was in Alex’s room would pay $427 for an annual membership. It’s not a place where you learn anything. You get to talk about trades, you get to ask a question or two but there no education about his method. Certainly no proof of live trading, no proof of profitable trading and no methodology documented or explained are red flags but if it’s a scam it’s not very sophisticated. Maybe because I work with young people I am more ready to give the benefit of the doubt to Alex but I didn’t see anything there that was of the sophistication of Warrior Trading, Jason Bond Picks, or the 100s of others that have been reviewed on this blog. If as Pink Panther suggests he really is much older and has form with other trade rooms he hasn’t learned the art of the con very well. So far there is speculation, accusation and theories but nothing definitive. I guess time will tell.
It just seems fishy to me. I pointed out my hypothesis of what his angle might be. But you are right it is just that a hypothesis. But so far my batting average on these TR operators has been 100% and I know from personal experience how these BMT “Heroes” operate.
They have a FREE rock star journal, so suckers like me, yes me PM them (this was when I first started day trading) and then they offer to train you for money.
My advice is enjoy his room while it is free, but just do not give this guy any money without getting proof of profitability.
Yes, well proof of live trading in the form of brokerage statements continues to be a sticking point in that they aren’t going to be forthcoming. If I put myself in Alex’s shoes I can understand it. He’s not charging any money for the room, he repeatedly states that the room is not about following his trades but about making your own decisions so why show trading statements. I’ll continue to pop in from time to time but I’m a novice as far as futures are concerned so I’m personally not learning a lot there, I probably belong in the futures creche.
This is straight from Alex’s Post:
” I am going to build a track record publicly”
I do not see the difference in him claiming to profitable scalp ES from Al Brook’s, who shows no proof of his claim. Yes the room is free, so far, but there are tons of scammers running webinars and etc. for free and then they get you. Heck, maybe I am wrong and this 18 year old kid is going to teach people to profitable scalp ES for Free. Anything is possible, but I put the odds at about billion to 1. But that is my guesstimate.
If I had money to burn and time to waste. I would take all his trades live and show the real results. I know he takes a lot of trades many small losses he closes and yet no commission and other charges shown. I cannot imagine how what I saw he is profitable.
But as always, he can easily prove me wrong and I hope he does.
I’d forgotten about the pledge to build a track record publicly. And if Alex does want to reform the industry that would be the place to start, free room or not. Refusing to prove profitable trading should mean that no one will sign up for a paid room but people want to believe so some people will.
As I view the situation there isn’t any need for all this brouhaha. If Alex is genuine then he can disclose proof of his identity, proof of real trading and proof of profitable trading to someone like Emmett or Big Mike privately. That would clear things up quickly and easily.
Amen!!!!
What else can I say.
Here is what you can say. “A feast is made for laughter and wine maketh merry. But money answereth all things.”
Sounds like another “18” year old Alex, or it is Alex Zobell/Sielaff/rocksolid68/Frankenstienface/MickyMouse
https://www.elitetrader.com/et/threads/recommended-prop-firms-or-lessons.304047/
I felt it was just the same angle all over again to fool newbs down the road, except he tried to come up with a “reforming the industry” line. I could tell within 15 minutes in the room it was the same hogwash all over again from a sham babbler like a Felton or rather a willstockpicks. There was no real experience evidenced. Something about bouncing off the vwap that any number of bmt journals have shown ad nauseum over the bmt years. If he was really 18, the most obvious naivete of being a new shammer was he really thought jaded retailers would think this was something different. Completely self-absorbed and deluded that his babble wouldn’t sound like every other young aspiring room sham in the past two decades. If he didn’t advertise here he would have pulled off more newbs for an eventual monthly churn. BMT even said in the discussion thread that he was allowed to link out only after he agreed to bm that he wouldn’t charge (initially) as his original plan was to charge in the first place. No clear method, murky calls changed to “overnight” swing trades, then resorting to magical “profits” made outside the room. Come to think of it there are some voice actors who do cartoons with kid roles even though they are ten to fifteen years older than the role.
” No clear method, murky calls changed to “overnight” swing trades, then resorting to magical “profits” made outside the room. ”
Damn, how come I can not write so clear and concisely. Darn public education.
Damn Rob, when do your sleep?
Plenty of time to sleep when you are dead.
“If I had money to burn and time to waste. I would take all his trades live …”
I doubt that you could even if you wanted to do so. There is no framework or methodology being taught, and yet he says that his room is not for following him, so how can one proceed when there is no explanation of how to find or manage the trade? With no stated stop, but just an announcement that he is out without even stating the price at which he abandoned the trade, there is no way to duplicate what he is doing.
I sat through the first two days of it and came to a similar conclusion.
Big Mike banned based on information that were available at the time when he allowed it. No new information has been posted as reason for the ban.
So it seems very hypocritical to make the decision to ban now rather than forbid promotion of it from the beginning.
So what exactly is big mike’s role in this? Did he expect the room to be a paid room and get a cut (and Alex decided to make it free) and got pissed when he lost that revenue stream?
Yeah I don’t think that you could accuse BM or being altruistic.
The discussion is still open in the public area of bmt:
http://www.futures.io/trading-journals/40318-how-i-trade-living-44.html#post605928
bmt also references pink panther’s sleuthing about Alex’s affiliation with GTR. Excellent recap of your thoughts on Alex’s room RobB. Your efforts to stop shills like Paul from taking over the comments and keeping the skeptic voice are surely appreciated by many lurkers and not just the TS commentary regulars. I agree 100% with all your points you mentioned. When I was in the room, I could tell within 10 minutes it was just another babbling sham room with murky talk about trading success. I can’t believe this guy is just some 18 yr old or otherwise aided and abetted by some one older on his team whether it be a relative. Also there was a post early on in this discussion where someone reported Alex had a room earlier this year charging hundreds of dollars for a monthly churn. The “business plan” on the webpage draft was sure telling about how it was planned to sucker in a certain age group of guys with a sham about being a wizkid at trading. “WillStockPicks” anyone? Already reviewed on TS. Well , bmt is going to close the discussion and lock the thread soon. TS had done a great job making trading forums all aware the CFTC is watching closely and nothing vendor-sided can touch Emmett now. This time, I think bmt was trying to be fair after all rocksolid said it would be free. He seems like a likeable friendly guy and if he’s really 18, I would think it would be sad if he ended up being a long time shammer babbler like Felton.
I posted earlier some more info on Smart Alex but its still been awaiting moderators approval for the last 6 hours.
Someone posted a you tube video on Big Mike where Alex is trying to justify himself.
Alex the 18 year old admits he worked for GTR and was affiliated with them.
Well that’s a lie because when Emmett post my post you will see that it was Chris his dad that worked for them. Hence that is why Alex is Chris a 48 year old groomer for newbie traders.
Plus Big Mike has now done a poll on whether to unban him. Why is Big Mike called Big Mike when he ain’t got Big balls to stick to his decision. Someone tell Big Mike this guy is a groomer for newbie traders.
I would be a monkey’s uncle! Pass me a banana.
WTF is going on here? Even Big Mike is HIMSELF linking to threads on tradingsschools.org?
How the worm turns.
Well, I have been in the room twice, I think, and I largely agree with you, which is probably why I have not yet been back. For full disclosure, while in the room I gave out my exact, objective, specific, inviolate, “quit trading for the day” rules, and announced the only two trades that I took well before I took them. Both were losing trades, and per rules, I quit immediately, for relatively small losses.
I questioned many times what he was doing, as he never explained the objective rules for what he was doing. It was largely a running commentary on what price appeared to be doing.
He claimed to not use hard stops (he did place “disaster stops” which were so close that they hardly qualify to be called such), and would instead just jump out of trades claiming to use a mental stop which itself was not stated. (“About 2 or 3 ticks below here” does not count as a definite decision point). Targets and money management rules were at best nebulous, in reality, simply non-existent.
In truth, he spent a lot of time discussing attitudes and trading psychology, but even there, did not state a framework as a possible guide within which participants were to construct their own individual framework.
In total, there was a complete lack of rules and structure for identifying trades, taking trades and/or managing trades.
It is all so unstructured that I guess you may be right. The only way that one can learn to trade his way would be to use Jedi mind powers and the Force.
bmt usually has conflicts of interests with it’s select vendors, but this time I wholeheartedly supported bm’s ban of rocksolid68 even though the ulterior motive was there was no way bmt could support such an obvious scam when exposed by pinkpanther. The guy was just the same con malarky as many other sham vendors before him , except he parlay a new angle as a “game changer” even referencing ts and bmt mission to change the industry. TS is the real deal, but bmt is weighed too heavily as part of the problem. The shams make up new marketing tricks to maintain their monthly churn and the “game changer” angle was no different. I was surprised so many people were still drinking the kool-aid in support of unbanning which just goes to show most of them are still sim dreamers and can not tell sham swill when it’s right in front of them in the trading room…yet.
Handley should be included in the complaint for aiding, abetting, and Pay to Play.
Hi,
Trading is hard but losing money to scammers is worse.
I’ve sought help from many vendors reviewed here but they all failed me.
I finally developed and approach that works consistently.
However, I’d never sell or show it with anyone (except my kids).
Here’s why:
1 – It cost too much to develop – my marriage, kids and home
2 – It’s not perfect and would be immediattely called a failure
3 – It’s simple and many people think that only complex works
4 – It’s not automated – you’ve got to watch the market
5 – It doesn’t tame emotions – if you’re not disciplined it won’t work
Packaged techniques won’t lead to success – you’ve got to create your own.
In doing so you’ll learn your limits, tolerance for financial losses and how to adjust when your process stops working.
Today I earn a very comfortable living from my efforts. However, I paid a steep price that in the end was not worth it.
My advice – stop looking to vendors to solve your trading problems and DO NOT DAY TRADE.
Thanks for reading.
Dan T., New York City
Interesting, but you said in there, ” that in the end was not worth it…” how can you say this because the END is not here …are you at the END of your trading career?
Thanks for asking.
I worked in corporate America earning decent coin. I wanted more but my ambitions were tempered by the company. I sought was to increease my income.
I lost my family because I was consumed by a need to becme “rich”. I alienated my family. All the cash I earn today doesn’t by me true happiness.
Even though I can buy everything that my kids want I only see them every couple of weks for just a few days. When I was “poorer” I saw them everyday…
Hi Danny,
Thanks for sharing. I know what it feels like to be rich in “stuff”, but poor in spirit.
And I know that feeling of not having your kids full time. The emptiness and loneliness, its all-consuming. Hang in there. Stay positive. Keep loving.
Emmett
Liked your post and gave you thumbs up, but the reasons you gave for not sharing what you’ve learned are weak: the steep price you paid is not going to get repaid if you keep the secret; and the other characteristics of your method are part of many real methods so I doubt anybody would hold them against you.
But … it’s your system and you can do whatever you want with it. 🙂
Now, much as I hate it, I have just done my first “me too” post on this site.
I think what he meant that he paid a heavy price to finally find a consistent method. He mentioned loss of marriage and home and maybe kids went with the wife. It could have been many year journey where he got divorced and he had to move out of the house. Maybe years of living on the edge. No one who found a truly winning method would just give away their edge to strangers. That’s why there is no vendor that delivers on the dream. As proven in the case examples here, most of them were failed traders and rationalized scamming others to try to make a career in sham trading education. It’s like having a winning lottery ticket and giving it to some stranger, unrealistic. On elite, someone who worked in a goldman sachs level of fund said they would never release trading edges that still worked, not even for a million dollars.
Will the real Alex Zobell please stand up, or do you want me to do it for you.
Why hasn’t the Doctor of the Titans been named co-conspirator?
Hey guys, I have been a long-time contributor on this blog, so I feel part of Emmett’s “family” to share my app project for language learning. Check me out o GoFundMe and pitch in as little as 5 bucks to spark momentum to my campaign. https://www.gofundme.com/ubenenglish
Thanks
Hey all,
You have probably been watching my comments. I am opening a trade/education room called Zero Gravity Trading.
After much discussion here in the comments and with others, I have decided to forgo charging for my TR. I will not be charging a dime! I will not be selling anything at all.
I told you all that I want to help change this industry that is filled with crooks and con artists. So I am going to do that the best I can.
I am going to have a trade room that focuses on education. I will not sell anything on the side. I am transparent and honest. No false promises.
I did the math and figured that the cost of the webinar service and website is not that much. I can just spend some of my own money to keep the two up and running; this will be no issue.
I had a minor financial motive going into this, but I now realize that the best thing I can do for me is to do what I always wanted: to give back. I have had the grace of many mentors, and unfortunately many TR’s. I know that underside of this industry and want to help others.
So, I still plan on doing the Robot and getting Emmett to review me. If at some point down the road I want to monetize the TR, you will all be the first to know.
Thank you for reading,
Alex
Hmmm,
I have a question that I think you will not find hostile. Can you provide some information about your trading. I know you have said you will not provide brokerage statements or keep a track record, but how about some overview of your typical day or week so one can tell if this is a good fit for them.
How many cars are you trading. What method in general are you trading. How many trades do you average a day or week. Are you microscalping going for 4 ticks or what is your profit and stop loss in general. What is your Risk to Reward and average win rate. How long do your typically hold your trades. Any information on the style and expectations of your method would be appreciated.
Also if you room is free I am sure you will get many subscribers so you better be prepared with a webinar host that can handle it.
Why yes, that was not hostile at all! Thank you very much :). I will keep a track record! I have given answers to most of your questions in other comments here in this thread. I will also be going over all of that stuff on the first day. I will answer if you can’t find the answers or don’t want to wait, I can answer again. Thanks for the kindness, Rob 🙂
I hope you keep an accurate track record based on live trades all shown on a DOM. If you do that you will be the 1st TR ever. BTW, Joe from Open Range Trader (the topic of this thread) kept a track record. The problem was it was all fake.
If you can show you can scalp ES profitably you room will be full.
Honestly I wont lie, I have my doubts and suspicious but I will not mention them here as I will called a hater or something like that, so lets see how this goes. As I have stated I profitably trade, but in a million years I could not day trade scalp ES and be profitable over time (and anyone that could would become very rich as this is a very liquid instrument), so heck I might even drop in assuming there is even space left. BTW, I went to your website, but I did not even see a link to join. Do you have to email you to join.
An accurate trade record will be kept. I do not trade on the DOM but I do on chart trader. I do not have to keep a fake track record. I have no reason to; I am not making money by faking it. Not only that, I want to be honest.
I do not “scalp” per se. If you look at the Average Daily Noise on the ES, I trade for larger targets than that. I am still improving on myself and hope to get even better trade management.
I know you have your doubts, and rightfully so. I appreciate your change in tone more than anyone. I hope that I can sway your thoughts on me 🙂
And yes, to join you must e-mail me. I am getting the site fixed now that it is free. I need to change/edit somethings.
E-mail for a room link!
You seem to have a positive attitude that is refreshing. I think it’s ok to give your room a chance. If it’s a good enjoyable room and nicely reviewed by Emmett, 10 to 25 bucks a month should be reasonable lunch money donations like a club, imo. Just don’t be like DTPow or TFIA which doubled it’s monthly room fee from 150 to 300 just after Emmett’s positive review. If you can show students and newbs in the room you can make a living from trading or get pretty close, it would still be trading room gem found in the trough. Good luck.
Thank you! I am very excited! I think it will be lots of fun! It will make my time trading much less lonely! 🙂
I have not considered just charging a super small fee… Maybe down the road sometime! Regarding the doubling of price, I think doing that would be the opposite of what I am trying to do. I am not in it for large financial gains. I have a long life ahead of me, no need to go for a large cash grab. I am here for the long term. I want to change the industry alongside Emmett and Big Mike! It may sound naive, but I think I can :)!
I am not going to jack the price up randomly. If I ever monetize the room, it will be at the discretion of the people. If they feel charging $40 a month is fair for both ends, then maybe we do that! But never will I scam people. Scamming is a short term game. There are enough people doing that.
Anyways, sorry for the rant. I hope to see you stop by the room sometime! 🙂
Oops. Trading is NOT meant to be fun. It is serious business, and most of the time is very boring.
Actually, the closest thing to trading, somewhat paradoxically, is war. You spend long periods waiting for something to happen, then a few moments of resolve, followed by another long period of waiting to extricate yourself.
It is always fun to make money. Trading itself should be boring, or something is probably wrong.
I mean fun because rather than sitting alone all alone whilst trading I will be able to talk to others! But I guess I know what you mean.
You sound a bit too much like Big Mike, not enough like Emmett. Maybe you can slow your roll?
When did Emmett give TFIA a positive review? Robert J. Amico is a unrepentant convicted felon and deeply in bed with Dr. Fraud Handley
my bad I got tfia mixed with Trading Price Action on Futures, or ‘TPAoF”. right, the scum, amico’s video in the basement under the sewer pipes is gone now from the GTR youtube videos.
Small bites, young man, small bites, please.
The website costs will be manageable. Meeting Room costs and Webinar costs probably will not be. Not if the access is free, and you are known on this site.
You are probably better off just having the room and explaining things when there is a lull in the trading. “Lull in the trading” means that I am assuming that you are not hyperscalping, perpetually stepping in and out of the market for small chunks of ticks, and, therefore, never have any time to really explain what you think that you are doing.
As an example, my average hold time turns out to be well over 2 hours. That means that most of the time, we are either out of a trade, or sitting in a trade waiting for it to develop to completion. That leaves plenty of time to explain to folks why we are doing what we are doing, and how we are managing the trade. (I am not running a formal room. We are just a group of friends trading together).
If you will really be on the robot, then all the best to you.
But, even then, you probably are going to have to show some redacted brokerage statements, if you are to be believed. I assure you, many of your followers will not get the same entries as you, and most will not take the proper exits either, so the only real proof that you are indeed profitable is an incontrovertible show of such information.
I am not hyper-scalping. I have documented how I trade in this thread of comments. I will have more than enough time to explain and talk.
Thank you for the kind suggestions. I will take them into account.
As far as the webinar costs and such, I make enough to cover these without impacting my normal lifestyle.
Here are a couple of rules for joining a trading room:
1. NEVER pay more then a month at a time, I find that many TR’s are trying to lock people in for 3 months at a time and even longer, of course there are no refunds. These are red flags.
2. Always watch for the first week at least or just paper trade, and make sure you’re critical of their trades, dont just hope that this guy is a guru and over look the obvious. We tend to do that because we really want it to work. Are they calling their entries, share/contract size, exits, stops. If any of these are missing then there is no way to gauge whether the guru is making money, so at that point you’re just wasting time and money, leave asap.
Fuck when are we going to get a good trading room
this is depressing.
Lots of laughs! This certainly is depressing.
You get to read about it. I have to swim in it. Yet others actually lost their savings and investment accounts.
This 18 year old kid starting a TR. How much of a track record could he have. He never experienced a flash crash and probably does not know what one is. Man, these TR pop up faster than weeds. The chances this 18 year old kid day trades ES profitable over time in my humble opinion is ZERO! I cannot wait to see your review.
Lets give the kid a chance. I am 100% hoping he makes it! Even a breakeven performance over 30 days is great.
I started this stupid blog to find the best performers and expose them to the public domain. Never giving up hope that a few gems can be found.
Jason at B12Trader.com has been solid. Been very delighted with the feedback.
Jason is not scalping ES. I never said one can not trade profitable. I trade profitable. I say one can not Day Trade the way these TR teach profitable over any reasonable time frame. Ask him for those brokerage statements and lets see what he says.
Thank you very much! I appreciate the chance to show you all that not all TR’s are cons. I am trying my best to not give false promises, false hopes, and most of all, not stealing your wallet. If you feel I am commenting to much here, just give me a shout! I am responding because I think everyone deserves one. Thanks again, Emmett 🙂
Hello Rob! Glad to see your faith in me is vast 😉
So, how much of a track record: 2 years in futures trading.
A flash crash. I must ask, is that what makes a profitable trader? No. Adaptability does. The ability to adapt to the market environment as fast as it changes is what it takes. The day a flash-crash comes, I will deal with it. Will I lose money? Possibly. Will I lose everything? Probably not. Adaptation, my friend 🙂
I am not sure why you mention ES. You could have just said futures as a whole but you didn’t; this leads me to believe that you think the ES is “harder” than the rest. Regardless, I think that trading futures in general is extremely hard to do profitably over time. Trust me, I am aware 🙂
I think to discard my credibility because of my age is foolish. As Lenin once said, “There are decades where nothing happens; and there are weeks where decades happen.” I think that this is true for human experience. A man that is 80 years old may have less experience than a man age 20. I think we can all agree with this. Time is not the sole measurement of experience.
I live and breathe trading. I spent all of my time learning. I have probably put more time (and money!) into learning the markets than most aspiring traders! I say this with confidence because I have dealt one on one with many of these aspiring traders. They spend and hour at work trying to watch the market out of the corner of their eye and trade SIM for 10 minutes at night. I understand that not all lives are conducive to devote themselves to learning.
I hope you give me a shot, Rob. I think that you may be surprised by what you see 🙂
To be honest faith is for religion. When it comes to money I want to see documented facts. And your post already have me very doubtful. You went from you are opening up a real honest room to the latest post where you say, “Trading live will be a “side-perk””.
Psychology, money management, and trade management all matter, but will make no difference if you are trading the non sense most TR teach. If you are telling people with small account they will be able to come in and make multiple scalps on CL everyday and make a living, Good Luck.
I can not wait for Emmett’s review. Have you shown him any brokerage statement of how you are trading this way profitable? How about a little proof of the claims? That would be nice.
Documented facts are good, but seeing things for yourself is better. What I meant by that post regarding the “side-perk” is that I will trade as I always do, but that won’t help everyone. Telling people to buy here and sell there won’t help them grow. What will is providing the knowledge, tools, and help that they need to progress. You are very hostile, which is fair, but I do think you should open your mind to me. Give me a chance, that is all I ask. If you are “right”, then you are! If you are not, then we move forward! It is easy :). Lastly, I never tell people to “join and make millions!”. Haha. Read my other comments I have made here. I take trades that are not 30 ticks on 3 contracts. I take reasonable trades with reasonable stop losses! Read my other comments. I talk about the whole trading part with another person here. (and no, I have not given Emmett any brokerage statements.)
Sorry but ripping people just a little bit 10% of what most TR do is still not GOOD in my book.
The only thing that will convince me is brokerage statements showing consistent profitable trading.
When you show Emmett those and he gives you the thumbs up I will shut up. But a few have suckered Emmett like the old Pump and Dump guys.
I will provide another avenue. If for some mysterious reason (I cannot imagine why) you can not show your brokerage statements to Emmett. Reminds me of Trump cannot show his tax returns.
You can do the following:
1) Offer a free trial, for a reasonable period; not 1 day, so one has time to truly assess your honesty and trading ability,
2) Trade an actual Live account – Sim is meaningless and as said before if you do not trust your method why would anyone else,
3) Clearly show your DOM or Chart Trader for every trade taken,
4) Start Posting an accurate Real Track Record Updating it Every Single Day,
a. Post accurate record of your trades showing entries, exits and P/L,
b. Post Brokerage Statement Proving his entries and exits.
5) Open up the Brokerage Account Live in front of people every day showing there is no trickery, and
6) Members must be able to achieve the same or close to the same results, so there is no pump and dump BS going on (though if you are trading ES that is not really an issue),
7) All members will be allowed to opening chat and no one will be banned for pointing out that I you are not doing any of the promises mentioned above.
There you go. Take the challenge Alex and even I will try your Free Trail and report what I see.
Gosh, I better add one more thing, if I go to the room and it is nothing more than BS smoke and mirrors, I make Emmett look like Mother Teresa in what I will post.
I feel that I am posting some of the same stuff and starting to become redundant. So unless there is more to add, this will be my last comment to you Rob. (I do not mean this in a mean way. I just do not want to clutter this thread.) In my room will be an open chat box for all to see. No silencing others. If I do silence someone, they are free to say so here in public. I won’t. so it will not be an issue. I have chart trader up for every trade. As far as the rest goes, Emmett’s Robot can do it all for me! That way you know I am not messing with the track record. Rob, if you would like to talk one-on-one, I am willing to do so. Just email me. I really think that you should give me a chance. Come to my room with an open mind. A critical mind, but open. My trial is for two days. I implore all that come to contact me before, after, or during! I am willing to talk with anyone about anything! 🙂 Lastly Rob, if anybody ever feels like they did not get what they paid for or feel deceived, they can come to me and we will handle it. There is not much more I can do to be transparent. Hell, I will have my camera on if that helps! Thanks for reading,
Alex
“No silencing others. If I do silence someone, they are free to say so here in public. I won’t. so it will not be an issue. ”
That is a promise that you should never make. Disruptive influences should be silenced. No. Someone who points out that you are violating promises that you made is NOT being disruptive. “Disruptive” means spamming the chat box with comments that are not relevant to trading in general; or the trade at hand. On the other hand, any comments on any actions that you actually perform while analysing or taking a trade, are fair game for extensive comment.
Very fair point. I should have mulled over my statement before I made it. Thank you again.
You have much to learn. Al Brooks has been selling poop since you were nearly in diapers, Alex.
“My trial is for two days.”
Two days isn’t long enough.
Speaking for myself, I would not pay in advance for a year of ANY trade room, not even one whose owner provides brokerage statements.
I am considering having it open for much longer, but at the current moment, I am not 100% sure if that is what I will do. Thank you for the honesty and suggestion!
I am sorry Alex, but instead of setting the Gold Standard of a new improved TR, you are setting the coal standard
2 day trail, no track record will be maintained, no brokerage statements of profitable trading.
IM humble opinion you do not meet the bare minimum standard that I would spend my money on.
The only rooms I will even go to a trial on is one that at least state they do what I listed and so far none in reality do.
As for the Robot, sadly Emmett does not seem to be keeping it up. I understand. It is probably a lot of work and there is no money in this business except for the scammers.
If Emmett had every room trying the robot listed with regular updates that would be great, but he does not.
Alex, all you had to do was show your brokerage statements of profitable trading and you refused.
I see no difference in your room and Open Trader or any of the other ones.
And lastly let me point out you came to a thread on a review of Open Trading Room and then posted a promotional ad for your new website. That set a bad tone with me to begin with. And then you refused to show any proof you could actually trade profitable. Well that was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
It is clear from your post you can show no evidence you can trade profitably, yet you think your TR will help others. That leaves me with 2 opinions. You are either delusional or a con man.
But that is my opinion.
I commend Alex for trying to set up a room that is transparent and won’t break the bank but I’ve got to agree with Rob B on a few points. Without some indication of success / earnings etc. it’s going to be difficult to get people to part with $427. A 1 week trial or open nights once a fortnight may be a better option for you because it would allow people to judge if the room was of value to them.
Rob B don’t you live outside Orlando. I thought that you’d be hunkered down riding out the Matthew storm in your bathroom.
Stray Dog,
You must be the only one that actually reads my post. Yes I am in Florida, but I am out of town right now. I will probably be homeless when I get back. Might have to set up a scam TR to rebuild my home. LOL! My daughter is in Melbourne and the storm is passing right over her. She even had to bring her chickens inside. Lots of wind and rain but so far staying off the coast. Lets hope it turns East and away from land.
Stray Dog,
Alex says I am hostile for daring to ask him for proof. I guess handing him money for his membership is his definition of non hostile.
The worst part is it is sooooo hard to explain to people just how corrupt this industry is and why never to believe someone like Alex.
I could go on for days, but just recently NT states:
“we never ever had any partnership with school of trade”
and then someone found their partnerpage in waybackmachine and posted and schooloftrade
was right there
“education partner: school of trade”
I have no words that can describe this industry. Saying they are nothing but a bunch of con artist is too gentle, not hostile enough.
I do not call you hostile for asking for statements, but rather the tone you use as well as the harsh words you use. You demand all this stuff and get mad when it isn’t provided instantly. Thank StrayDog for the kind words. I am aware that $427 is not an easy amount of money to part with. That is why I am willing to give people time to truly judge the room’s value. I am going to build a track record publicly, hopefully the Robot, and I plan on being transparent. However, I am not able to make all these things happen instantaneously. You all have good reason to doubt me, that I understand. But doubt should not mean you refuse possibility. I am not asking anyone to join my room TODAY or this WEEK. I just put my name out there, I am going to build a track record of being an honest and transparent person. If you all do not want to join, I respect that! I just hope that someday down the road you will see that I am not a con artist and I am not like the rest. Until then, I can not appease all of you. The only way to appease some here is to prove myself out. I will do exactly that! Thanks for reading, as always! 🙂
@Alex, If I read your site correctly it’s $427 one time, to me that means a lifetime membership not an annual subscription. I may be wrong about that, let me know if I am. Assuming it’s a lifetime membership then it’s a bargain IF you can provide traders with some value i.e. they can make money or they can learn to trade profitably. As you say you’ll have to establish your credentials as you go but I’m impressed that at 18 years old you’re doing this. At 18 I wasn’t able to think beyond girls and a good time.
Hey Stray Dog, thanks for pointing that out! I will fix that discrepancy! It is a one-time fee. I refer to it being for a year since it is easier to put that idea in someone’s mind. My hope is that no one will need to be in my room for more than 12 months because they will be off on their own. They will have spread their wings and flown away 🙂 But of course, we all know how that can be. So if someone is around for longer than a year, they will be happily welcomed to be in the room as such. Thanks for the question! And yes, girls and a good time can be a distraction! 😉
Alex, I wish you luck with your trading. I understand Rob’s ire, and he has been very consistent in demanding of any TR that they supply brokerage statements to verify their “real” trading, not SIM, not robot. But I’ll wait to see your brokerage results when you start to trade. I also think a 2 day trial is not enough for new traders to determine if you are a consistent trader. You even said not every day is profitable, so what happens if the 2-day trial loses both days. That would be a disservice to you as well. Anyway, good luck.
However, I’ve been trading a long time and there are a couple of things about you “method” that would bother me if I were taking your TR. You say you trade with “market context”. I don’t know what that means, but I’m assuming basically your “feel” for the market, given what is going on. Ok.
You enter with market orders and you say that will avoid discrepancies when in fact that’s just what it will do. You may enter and your subscribers only get to enter after you call it out which means they may or may not get the same fill. If someone is trading 3 or more contracts and the market is moving fast, that difference may be substantial.
You also use “mental” stops. Is that an exact number or an “area”? If it’s an area, are you sure you won’t expand that area (that’s what a lot of new traders do, feeling assured that the market can’t go any lower/higher and your trade will turn around — and of course it doesn’t). And your subscribers are holding tight to their mouses waiting for you to announce the stop. I get cramps in my fingers just thinking about it.
And you determine targets as the “trade develops”. Again with no predetermined targets, you leave your subscribers holding tightly to their mouses and waiting for your call. And again if you call the target as a market order as it is hit, will your subscribers get the same fill? Most likely not.
So a lot of this seems to be in your head and maybe you’ll be describing things to your subscribers as the trading continues. Otherwise how else will they learn your methods. The psychological help you offer may help with the money management and risk but the fear/greed issues can only be answered within oneself.
Finally, let me offer 1 small nugget that has defined my trading from day 1. New/retail traders first ask, “How much can I make?” The professional trader first asks, “How much can I lose?” Cause it’s all about risk.
Just my 2 cents. I await your results and hopefully comments from your subscribers.
Man, I was just informed Raymond Deux (President/CEO of NinjaTrader) will be on BMT Oct. 13th.
Everyone should go there and demand an explanation why they claim to vet yet do not. Why are the allowing un-vetted un-profitable traders to put on webinar making insane fantasy claims.
Demand answers!!!!!!
Could you imagine what will happen if everyone does this.
“Could you imagine what will happen if everyone does this.”
Not much. The supreme dictator, the El Capo di tutti capi, will just turn off their access and ban them for life. How dare you question one of his gods?
Awesome post! The stops and targets are predefined. And the market orders is because I know traders do not like “fill on touch” SIM stuff. My trades are long-term enough and on a fluid instrument so fills will not be an issue. Plus, they do not have to flatten when I do or take profits when I do. If they want, they are free to. I agree that they will have to learn themselves. I am just trying to aid in the learning process as well as giving them the help/tools they need to get better. Thank you for the kind-hearted reply
You assume I am ripping people off, which I do not think I am. I came out here on to this blog to allow people to try me out, allow Emmett to review me, and for the people to decide whether I am worth the money or not. I am very willing to do the Robot. As far as the pump and dump, I am not so sure that is possible in futures. Regardless, if I could pump the ES 10 points to my target, I would 😉
As far as the smoke and mirrors go, I think that I have been the most transparent “vendor” yet! I have answered all questions and have not lied at all. I do not promise anything and I admit to my faults/shortcomings. I said in other comments that I do not trade profitably every single day, but that over time I do. I can not guarantee anybody else success but I will give them my best effort to help them!
I will answer that. You came here to promote yet another TR without being willing to show an ounce of proof. I think we have now separate the chaff from the wheat.
If you were real instead of going on about how you will help people with psychology and etc. You would say:
“Rob B you are right and I have no issue in showing Emmett my brokerage statement that prove I am a profitable trader and again you are right and I will show the items you listed to prove I am the real deal unlike all those other trading rooms.”
But you do not. Instead it is Blah, Blah, Blah No Proof, Blah, Blah, Blah again I will show no proof.
No one needs to pay some unproven trader money to help with their psychology. PERIOD!!!!!
First show any proof you can trade profitable. Why do you keep stalling. Let me take a WAG. YOU CANNOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
For goodness sake prove me wrong and shove those brokerage accounts down my throat or take your promotional nonsense to invest-o scam u.
Sorry to everyone else, but I am so sick of these TR con artist coming here promoting their BS TR site and then refuse to show any proof they can trade profitably.
Can someone else please post the following:
“Alex, we know Rob B is an a-hole and you are legit. What possible reason could you have to lie to us. And really you do not need to show any proof what so ever you are a profitable trader, but just for the hell of it can you show Emmett those brokerage statement and all the profits you have been making scalping ES just to shut him up!
Thanks in advance,
MR X.”
“Alex, we know Rob B is an a-hole and you are legit.” And I think there was something else Rob B wanted me to say but it’s slipped my mind. 🙂
LOL! Even with my house about to be blown away, you bring a smile to my face.
One part I do agree with is when I was 18 I was just looking for the next party. And people say I need to get a life. I did not know a stock from hole in the wall when I was 18. I am not sure if that is a good thing or bad thing.
Con artist? Come on now. Let’s be civil :). I am not conning anyone. I am not sending personal finance information to Emmett. You are right about that. Past performance is not indicative of future performance. So, once again Rob, hook me up to the Robot and I will blow you away. Also, you do not speak for everyone. I am a firm believer that psychology is what differentiates us all as traders. We all have access to the same indicators and charts, so why do some succeed and some don’t? Psychology. That is why. So when you say it doesn’t matter, I would beg to differ. Unless you have something new to say, I will have to refrain from replying again. Robot will settle this; so what are you waiting for? Let’s get this thing on the road! Hell, I will trade the Robot tomorrow if we had it set up!
If you don’t want to join, wait. Watch the Robot results for a few weeks (or months), and then join! No pressure to join now! Patience is a virtue Rob. So, watch when that track record gets printed. Thanks again, Alex
You may be able to help some people with money management and even possibly trade management. At 18, I doubt that you are going to be able to help anybody with psychology. It may not need to take years to be able to be of help psychologically, but it does not take youth either. It sure as heck does take experience, and not just 2 years of trading, starting from scratch.
In any event you have stated that you are willing to go the route of the robot, so maybe we can suspend judgement while we wait.
I will warn you though. The robot is not to be messed with. The last person who boasted about being on the robot got exposed pretty badly indulging in elementary trade no no’s. He left the program pretty much with his tail between his legs.
Thank you for the kind comment! Trade/money management is apart of psychology. How much I can help will be determined by those that give me a chance. That is all I ask for is an open-minded chance. I think the robot will be a proper test of my trading abilities. We shall see how that goes! Thank you for being patient and allowing me some time to prove my word. 🙂
Wow! what a shocker. You will not show Emmett your personal brokerage statements.
You know Joe from Open Range and those con artist from Sideways Market, even while be investigated for fraud, will still tell you how honest and real they are too. Are they your buddies.
Give me a break. That post is your nail in the coffin.
You refuse to show proof because you cannot. It does not take a genius to realize if one could profitable scalp ES you would become rich very very fast and not be running some TR.
If you wanted Emmett to run the robot instead of coming here and promoting some BS TR site which you refuse to show any proof of profitable trading from; you could have privately emailed Emmett you would like for him to evaluate your trading room and run the robot.
I am calling you out as a fraud who can not trade ES profitable and that is why you refuse to show any proof and anyone that believes you can help them trade profitable and gives you money deserves what they get.
And I will tell you exactly why you want to run the robot and not show brokerage statements. Brokerage statements show you can trade live profitable. As far as I know the Robot allows Sim trading, which I am sure you think you can scam.
Anyone here willing to make a side bet on this. I predict this clown disappears in a few months like every other one of these TR promoters who can show no proof of their claims.
I will take that bet Rob! I must say, you are one hostile person. Without much merit in this case. Nonetheless, I will address you. First off, I have privately emailed Emmett twice over the span of the past 3 months trying to get the Robot. Emmett however is too busy to respond. Secondly, I have no clue whether the Robot is live or SIM. Regardless if it were SIM, I am not sure it would be possible for me to “scam” it. Rob, if you could please relax a tad bit and not rage out over your own thoughts, that would be nice. Come back here in 3 months and comment. Then we can talk. You will read Emmett’s review on me. You will see my track record, and then you can make claims. So, I will take your little bet right now because I am here to stay. I am going to help change the industry with Emmett and Big Mike. If you won’t move forward, you can be left behind because needless hate is not wanted. Thank you for all your input Rob, but I do not think it is worth anyone’s time anymore. You are just spouting off rather than making valuable posts. So comment in 3 months and we will talk. Thanks for reading.
Hostile to scum bag promoting there BS TR and refusing to show any proof they can trade profitable. YOU BET!!!
You are trying to change things for the better. You are the problem. Another scammer refusing to show any proof. I even gave you a way to prove yourself without immediately showing your brokerage statements and your even refused to do that.
Just how stupid do you think people are.
You refuse to show any proof and just keep spouting nonsense. One thing I am sure of I will still be around in 3 months, unless I die, and in 3 months you still will not be able to show any proof of your claims.
Again all you have to do is show redacted Brokerage Statements to Emmett. He does not need to see your account number or anything, just proof of live trades.
Until you are willing to do that, everything you say to me is just typical TR con artist 101 BS speak.
Put Up or Shut UP!! It is that simple.
This is almost comedic. I am not sure if you enjoy making the posts you do or not. Either way.. You keep saying “scammer” and other words like that. I have NOT taken a single dollar from anybody! So you can stop with that right now. You also call me a scum bag, really? The 18 year-old is the mature one? What does that say, hm? You gave me a way, and I am going to do it, yet you are still going nuts. There is no making you happy Rob. I am surprised Emmett leaves you on this site. Maybe he enjoys watching you rant? Who knows. Anyways, enjoy yourself.
“You gave me a way, and I am going to do it, ” Really. I actually gave you two ways to prove yourself and your refused to do either.
All you have done is promote a TR website while refusing to show you can trade profitable. That is the bottom line. Everything else you say is meaningless. You sound just like every other Day TR scammer so yes I put you in that category. And once again all you have to do is show proof of your claims to shut me up. But you go on and on and never any proof. You are the one that is comical.
In my humble opinion, when hell freezes over. Yes I know I am negative. Actually I think I am realistic. All day TR are scams.
At risk of verbal lynching I will step up and take that challenge – all rooms are not scams – of course most are.
I am the owner/trade moderator of a new live room at http://www.zerogravitytrading.com.
I’ve been running a beta room for a small group of traders since May and will launch my regular room with a 2-day free test drive next Monday and Tuesday 10th – 11th.
Here is how I operate:
I trade ES – most liquid true market.
All entries are via Market order to minimize discrepancies between my calls and others in the room.
A market context approach is used in determining entries/exits.
I trade using a mental stop – not a physical one.
Targets are determined as the trade develops.
I am not an indicator hustler – no gimmicky Ninja indicators for sale.
In fact I use Sierra Charts – much better product than Ninja.
Cost of my room is cheap – $427 for an entire year.
Room is open 5 mornings each week from 8:00am – 10:30 cst.
I trade to earn money – not to get rich.
I welcome all the doubters/haters (well founded of course) to come and give me a look.
I’ve been in touch with Emmett as I will gladly allow The Robot to run in my room to verify my results.
If interested please contact me at zerogravitytrading@gmail.com
Thanks for your time and I hope you give me a look before you flame away 🙂
Alex Zobell
Well that took a lot of courage! Lol.
Just accurately report losses. And you don’t need great performance for a great review. Heck, break even gets a great review. Just ask WatchHimTrade, breakeven.
Sorry, but every TR I have ever been it has been a con. Could you be the unicorn? Provide live brokerage statements to Emmett (which BTW I offered to do in a previous post) and show you are consistently trading profitable over an extended period of time and I will eat crow. Anything short of that is meaningless nonsense.
http://screencast.com/t/KW2putSiT
I get a big black screen with menu choices at the top of the page but nothing when I click on them. I guess they’ll work when the launch date arrives. You may be the unicorn but after a while I figured that there’s just nothing better than working out your own trades for yourself. Trading rooms fee like getting in a car with your mother telling you turn left, then right, slow down, not so fast. Much better to drive the car on your own.
Great post! I agree with much of what you said! My room will focus on psychology, money management, and trade management! Trading live will be a “side-perk”. I want to bring the horse to the trough, not force it to drink. I think that I can help many traders get to where I am now! I do not want them to pay an arm and a leg for it, of course. That is why my room is roughly 10% the cost of most rooms ($35/month compared to $350/month rooms).
Also, I am sorry the site does not seem to be working for you. I am hearing that this is not an issue for others so I am not sure how to help. I will try to figure it out.
“I use Sierra Charts – much better product than Ninja.”
Can you elaborate?
Hello GemBow,
This is nothing more than an opinion!
I spent a long time with NT and enjoyed it a lot. Then I moved over to SC. I fell in love with it! 🙂
I think that SC allows for MUCH more customization options for graphics, indicators, charts, and more! It is also much more consistent (no crashes like NT) and much less CPU heavy.
It has a learning curve, but once you get over that, you will have a lot of fun! I used to spend hours just messing around on it. Give it a shot! I think you will enjoy it! 🙂
How many points you averaging per week? are you day trading or a combination of day and swing?
He stated he is trading ES. I doubt he is swinging trading ES. But I could be wrong.
why not? I swing the ES regularly, in fact it’s the best way to make money in the ES
I said I doubt it as an educated guess as most people that get into Day Trading do not have the margin to keep trades open overnight and most TR gear themselves to those folks. Nothing wrong with swing trading ES if you have the funding.
Hello George/’s bro.
If we take the average, we will end up at a small number above zero. Why? Because the average overtime with losses and winners included, we will end up near zero!
Now, I know what you are asking, so let me explain.
I do not measure success on a day-to-day basis, but rather week-to-week. Like trading, emphasis on one thing can blind you to only see one tree in a forest.
I aim to max each trade! I believe in achieving asymmetrical returns. What this means is lose small, and win big! Simply said, not so much when acted on :). I strive to maximize wins by scaling in and out. This means that I take some profits on a winning trade at “income” targets. AKA first target. My first target is typically between 3 and 5 points. This allows me to lock in some income, and play the runner stress free.
For the runner, I aim for levels I see as reachable. I try to aim for ~10 points on these. I used to aim for much more, but markets are a little less giving than they used to be. I hope the election can promote some movement… 🙂
I typically keep losses to 10-30 ticks. This number is for all contracts. So 3 lot stop loss taken out at -2 points would be 8 ticks per lot, or 24 ticks. I scale in, which allows me to keep losses to a minimum.
So, to answer your question. I do not have losing weeks that often. If I do, they are not account-killing. What is typical for me is a losing day or two during the week. This is okay, because when I have losing days, they are smaller than my winning days. I believe this is key to long-term success.
I hope this was what you were looking for! 🙂
Thanks, I’m asking because I like seeing what others are doing, some people think there is only one way to skin a cat, I know that to be false.
It is very false! Trading the ES can be done in a ton of different ways. Different shoes for different feet. I also agree that longer term trades are better for long term profitability.
RE: Alex’s Trading Room.
I was in Alex’s trading room a few months back when he was running his skype/go2Webinar thing under a different last name. He was well hidden in BigMike’s forum and I found him there using his fathers account or something. Anyway, I digress, His trading was MEDIOCRE and honestly I couldn’t match or get into profit especially with his Renko-bar trading and overly-loose stops. I paid a few hundred bucks for a single month (one of the highest prices EVER that I paid by the way FFS!). Of course now he charges nothing! Damn!
Alex – I just looked at your site. You say you are an 18 year old college freshman (I apologise – 18 years and 4 months) with 2 years experience of trading.
Is this some kind of joke?
With 2 years, your experience extends to a little over one quarter of the current bull market.
Having hired a bunch of analysts over the years, had I received it, your CV would immediately have gone into the trash, not through unkindness but simply as you aren’t experienced enough to be able to be trained in professional trading, let alone be ‘available to help members grow in their trading careers’. (direct quote from your site).
Laughable and laughably naive.
Wow Alex I bet you didn’t expect such a tough crowd. Seems that your assessment is a bit brutal TraderP, especially as Alex’s room hasn’t even gone live yet. Alex my suggestion is don’t read the posts here just keep your focus on your trading. I’ve worked with plenty of 18 year olds who are brilliant in the field that they are passionate about.
I wasn’t trying to be unjustifiably harsh. If this room was set up as ‘join me in my journey as I gain more experience trading and maybe we can learn from each other’ then I would be the first to say all power to you and I wish you the best. The problem I have is that this isn’t how the room is set up – Alex has clearly set it up as a profit making venture in which others pay and can then be trained, and that is a completely different proposition altogether. As to your point about 18 year olds, I agree entirely – for certain professions but not ones where experience is absolutely key. An 18 year old passionate artist, builder, chef – fantastic. An 18 year old defending me in court, performing open heart surgery on me or training me to be a successful trader – forget it!
Hello, I was in Alex private room some months back after covert solicitations on BikeMikes. He was charging $500 for two months in his new room!! His trading left much to be desired…give me a break! Wish i could get a refund since it’s free now. He is not an expert trader i’ll just tell you that much.
I don’t think we’ll ever see a real dream trading room. At best only a few breakeven trading sites that need subscribers to shore up losses and make
enough to pay the bills. At least if they are transparent it is good starting value for a newb to see and follow along and the true struggle with losses and the realistic risks of live trading. The rest, 99% are sim shams and scams and make their monthly “churn” of newbs profit instead of real trading. If they could make 60k a month trading , they sure wouldn’t share or teach it to strangers on the web, much less have a trading education room business.
Very true dtchurn! This industry is filled with snakes! That is why I created my room! I strive to bring more good into this industry! I think very few have done this before. Emmett and Big Mike (from FIO) are two people that truly brought good to this community. I want to be one of those people! So, how do I do that? I help people that were in similar situations to me! I can give them the tools and the knowledge to give them the best chances of making it! I can not guarantee everyone will be rich, but what I can do is try my best. I priced my room to be relatively cheap compared to most rooms. As stated in a previous comment, my room equates to $35/month. That is fairly cheap, right? Most rooms are $350 a month! I am around a 90% discount. You spend more on commission in ONE day than you do on my room. Now, I understand that there is more at stake than just room cost. There is trading. Think of it like this: if I save you from taking ONE trade a day, I save you +$1000 by the year’s end. Yes, I did the math :).
I can not make promises of riches, but I can do my best to assist you on your journey!
All the best to you, Alex.
Atleast you are making live calls. Al Brooks says he is helping people by teaching them dangerous and false ideas, as a for-profit teacher, with only hindsight analysis which he suggests can be made in realtime. Brooks’ only way to gain people’s confidence is to use his social status, race and gender to gain people’s confidence. Could some punk off the street do what Brooks has been pushing for nearly a decade and be taken seriously?
Hey Pete, thanks for posting. I am familiar with Al Brooks’ teachings but not so much him as a person. Maybe I should do some research on him. I am trading in front of everyone in real time. Not only that, I am helping them see the market the way I do and helping them develop a methodology that fits them. I have said it before, I can only bring the horse to the trough, but I can’t make it drink. I will let you all decide if what I am doing is of value. I made no promises to anyone, but I do think I can help people on their journey. Thank you for reading 🙂
Joseph Douchefreshe should have gone to medical school to maximize his school of trade income potential.
What’s with this Al Brooks fella you keep harping about? I know someone who attributes his success to Brooks and he is succeful as a trader…just wondering
Joseph Douchefresh has people atrributing success to his teachings.
I sat in on a free trial about a year ago and Joe Trader was almost apologetic for having had to succumb to pressure and join Lying Dr. Dean’s Trade Titans. Told me he couldn’t compete with other rooms unless he joined the good doctor’s list.
Joe was brilliant as acting like one of us. He would tell his BS stories and all sounded so good. But he could not hold on to his members as he just lost money and at 30 ticks stop loss with 3 Cars those loses added up fast. I have to dig up the Skype address of some of those old room members and send this link.
Rob B, You yourself, Rob, have said you can’t set a specific number of ticks for a stop, whether it’s 4 ticks for a scalp or 30 ticks for a larger move. It always has to be based on the chart and the time frame you are trading. And here it is again. A consistent 30 tick loss on every trade, which has absolutely nothing to do with the chart or market being traded. That’s just what the TR has decided is the maximum pain he or his followers can absorb (and at 3 x 30 = $900 in CL), that’s a lot of loss being that it’s based on nothing whatsoever on the chart. Buyer beware of anyone trading with that kind of stop. The market doesn’t care how much pain you are willing to absorb.
Man, someone that actually has read my posts. You got it that is one of my Holly Grails, nothing can be arbritary including profit targets or stop losses. But this was back before I knew better. BTW that was Joes setting 30 ticks not mine.
I read your posts. It is just that so far, there is little that you have written that I disagree with, so there is little that I can contribute. And I hate “Me too” posts. lol.
A Stop Loss is always to be determined by finding a price level at which the thesis for a trade become invalid. If that level is too far away, based on the pain that you can tolerate, you skip the trade. As you say, the market does not care how much pain you are willing to absorb, so only you can determine that.
The moral of the story is that the market does not care, so take care not to put yourself in a position where the market will cause you more pain that you can bear. If the logical Stop Loss is too big, wait for the next trade, and keep waiting until you get the trade where the Stop Loss is within your pain tolerance.
Yes, agree, so using a stop loss that is based on the chart ie, HH’s HL’s, etc. Finding a pivot below which (if you are long), your analysis will be wrong. Okay to admit you are wrong. My motto: Manage the losses, the winners take care of themselves. The other alternative if the stop loss is logical but not within your budget is to drop to a lower time frame and find a trade there that agrees with where you want to go, but allows you to use a logical stop loss within your account size.
Oh! this is so depressing. Emmett you are bringing back repressed memories.
I must confess to my complete foolishness prior to waking up to the reality of trading. As I have stated I was as big a fool as anyone when I first started to day trade. Went to BMT and Read Lying Dr. Dean’s articles. Based on Dr. Dean I too tried Open Range Trader. He came across as so sincere, but all he did was lose money. And his shills defended him.
He just traded the opening range on CL and then eventually add some other instruments. A monkey could do his system, which is always a warning sign. And like all these non sense methods they work until they do not work. And worst he was trading 3 Cars. I Skyped with another member who lost a small fortune trading this nonsense.
Damn that memory was repressed until this article. I now have to go jump off the roof for being so stupid back in the day.
http://screencast.com/t/0ILYYad6QE
Thank God, I finally got off the Kool-Aid and woke, which is why I try to warn others. But as I am learning getting off that Kool-Aid is not easy.
Gosh I forgot to add the first person they need to lock up is Lying Dr. Dean who self-proclaims he took this con artist trades and made a fortune. I actual hold the Evil Dr as the worst of the worst as his article gives legitimacy to these con artist.
Emmett can you at least inform Futures Magazine about the Good Dr and his scams and hint they might be held liable for publishing his nonsense.
Futures Magazine is on the scam as well and im sure they dont care..look how they run Al Brooks articles about trading ES for 1 pt all day from your $5k account..also they advertise all the scammers for Traders Expo
worst of the worst is quite a feat when looking at the nominees for the title…
I guess the good Dr. excels at something
I dreank Handley’s kool-aid too for a while and tried out one of grand tetons. The old kitchen video was especially shocking which showed he was probably not making good money from following and learning from the grand tetons trading rooms. If the rooms, sham or not don’t join the tetons or other of his fee proposals, then it seems they could get a harsh review. Example, this video review by Handley of Felton trying to be legit and harsh soon after the Felton tradingschools review.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdVIL-eXUhk