NQ Trader
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Honesty
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Quality
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Cost
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Support
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Verified Trades
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User Experience
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Summary
Jordan Schleider of NqTrader.US claims to be a full time professional trader. Yet can provide absolutely zero proof of any trading success whatsoever. The trading room is a complete joke. No trading DOM present on the screen, no live trading from the charts. Claims to win on 85% of trades. Claims to profitably execute an average of 650 day trades each month, which equals about $2,600 a month in trading commissions. Yet another Ninja Trader Ecosystem certified educational provider that is proclaiming wild success and yet has zero verifiable track record. A complete and total waste of time.
User Review
( votes)Thanks for reading today’s review of NQTrader.US
What is NQ Trader? NQTrader.us is a day trading educational website that specializes in day trading the Nasdaq 100 Futures Contract. The website is listed as a Ninja Trader Ecosystem official trading educator. The business is a one person company that is owned by a person named Jordan Schleider. The Google+ profile page for Jordan Schleider can be found here.
A Facebook profile page for NQTrader.US can be found on the following page.
A quick review of Archive.Org revealed that the website came online in early 2014.
Several YouTube videos of NQ Trader can be found here.
A Twitter profile for NQ Trade can be found here.
What is NQ Trader offering?
The following is a complete list of offerings for NQ Trader.
- Price Action Private Mentorships $6999
- 4 month complete day or evening course $1499
- Video course complete with documentation $649
- Add Morning traderoom monthly subscription $299
(Requires video course purchase above) - Add Evening class monthly subscription $299
(Requires video course purchase above) - Combo monthly subscription morning and evening $598
(Requires video course purchase above) - One month trial of morning traderoom access $399
- Additional months traderoom access $99
(Requires complete 4 month course purchased at $1499)
The Live Trading Room
During the month of May, 2016, TradingSchools.Org signed up for several sessions of the live trading room. Since the moderator, Jordan Schleider only allows a one day free trial of the live trading room, we were forced into using several different email addresses and proxy addresses to avoid detection.
The live trading room typically lasts two hours each day. At no time during the evaluation period of the trading room did we see a live trading DOM on the screen. Also, at no time during the evaluation period did we see any trading from the charts.
All trades are given in a quick verbal expression. Typically, Jordan would mumble into the microphone…”OK, I’m long”.
No stops were posted on the screen. No targets were posted on the screen. Instead, if the trade moved in Jordan’s favor, he would typically mumble into the microphone, “+8 ticks profit”.
On losing trades, Jordan would also typically mumble into the microphone, “that’s a loser, I got out awhile ago”.
My question to Jordan is how in the heck is this of any value? Mumbling into a microphone, drawing some trend lines on a chart, and having little dots appear provides nearly zero value to the user. And how do we even track something that is expressed in such ambiguity? In addition, there is absolutely no verifiable daily track record of trades taken inside of the live trading room. Its just a series of useless mumbling and commentary from a person that claims to be a professional day trader.
Claims of Trading Success
Jordan Schleider claims to be a professional day trader. However, the reporting of his results in incredibly ambiguous. The following are the reported results for the month of May 2016.
Looks impressive right? An 82% win rate! However, there is absolutely no mention of how much each trade was worth. What was the daily profit and loss? What is the average trade profit and loss? The only thing we know for sure is that Jordan is claiming that he executed 693 trades for the month of May 2016.
693 trades during only a single month? Ok, sure Jordan. Lets now consider the commission costs. Assuming an average commission of $4 per trade. Then executing this strategy means that a person is going to be spending an amazing $2,772 in trading commissions each month. This means that just to break even, a person need to be profitable over $2,700.
A review of Jordan’s prior monthly trading results are much the same. Never a losing month! Averaging between 500-800 total trades per month. By using these statistics, we can then assume that Jordan executes an average of 650 trades each month. A futures broker’s wet dream of $2,600 each month in trading commissions.
Imaging attempting to replicate these trades over the course of one year. You would have to spend $31,200 in trading commission…JUST TO BREAK EVEN. Talk about financial suicide.
Contacting Jordan Schleider of NqTrader.US
Of course, since Jordan does not display a trading DOM, nor does he trade live from a chart, mumbles his trades into a microphone after the fact, and he claims to earn $150,000 per year trading Nasdaq futures. The only responsible thing would be 
to contact him directly and ask for some sort of proof that he is actually a profitable futures trader. Unfortunately, the very moment that you question him, or ask for any sort of proof that he is actually making any money from trading…he get’s REALLY NASTY.
Try and question Jordan’s integrity and he responds with something similar too, “Who do you think you are?” and “Why should I waste my time with such a ridiculous request”?
Is asking for proof of success really such an outrageous request? He is asking the consumer to fork over $7,000 in educational costs, and potentially spend over $30,000 a year in trading commissions, and yet cannot grant even the most minuscule request to prove that he is even trading? Outrageous stuff folks.
Whom in the world would be so stupid to whip out there credit card based upon such a flimsy story?
Jordan, you claim that these are your trading records for the week? OK, then prove it. Lets see an account statement. Lets see something. Anything. Or, are you just going to continue to lambast and verbally abuse anyone that questions these results?
Jordan, you claim to be a full time professional day trader, with proven results trading from a live trading account. Are you even aware that marketing such results as “with a live trading account” and proclaiming these to be live is an actionable offense. Sure sounds like fraud to me.
Wrapping Things Up
Another day, and yet another wannabe trading educator proclaiming to teach “Trading Secrets” at $7,000 a sucker. Yet another trading room where the results are highly ambiguous and unsubstantiated. Yet another “official trading trading track” record that appears to be a mishmash of nonsense and hyped up trading chicanery.
Thanks for reading. And don’t forget to leave your comments below. Even the haters and trolls will find that their voices are heard.
After reading all these posts I’ve come to the conclusion none of you are profitable in the market. I took Jordans class in 2013 and here’s some the myths debunked.
1. Jordans stop loss is 12 ticks
2. His profit target is 7 to 8 ticks.
3. He recommends staying out of the market on the open and high volatility
4. Trading with one contract over a course of a day could very easily make you 200 to 300 after taking out round turn costs.
5. He doesn’t use a price DOM, because he calls out the entries and exits.
I can show you years of profit and earning and trading is not easy.
http://tradingschools.info/2015/08/05/a-review-of-emmett-moore/
Just in case anyone is wondering David Adams has lost 2500$ today in his trading room. At one point when he was in a trade that was down 1000$, he decided to go eat and left everyone hanging. He didn’t turn on his mic till he decided to reverse his trade which also went negative without a stop loss…. David Adams manage to lose over 3000$ in his trading room while trading a live 5k account.
A $3000 drawdown on a $5K account. Man that sounds like a sound financial plan to me. Where do I sign up??
His method must be the opposite of the one described in the fictional trading room of Rob and I that is described on this page on this site: https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/trading-price-action-futures
Here is the quoted comment:
‘Rob B, if you and I started a trading room, we would have no clients. LOL.
1. What do you mean that I cannot trade commodities with $5k?
2. My broker gives me $500 day-trading margin. What do you mean that I cannot trade 10 cars with my $5,000?
3. How can you ever use a stop like that when the target is not 3 times the range to the stop?
4. What do you mean that you do not have an 80% win rate?
5. What do you mean that I cannot use a 5 tick stop on /CL and a 50 tick target?
6. But the problem is that sometimes a trade loses money.
7. Sometimes I lose many trades in a row, so why take the next trade?
8. I am losing too many trades in a row, so I should move my stop, so that I can have a better win rate.
9. Too many of my trades turned from small winners into losers, so let me take this 3 ticks after I moved my stop and ended up sitting though a 30 tick drawdown. Now I can put this one in the win column and improve my win rate.
Moderator Rob: “You cannot do any of those things.”
Client: “You are a bad trade room. you dream-crusher.”
Sound familiar? LOL.’
Hm. It sounds like he does not have any rules to quit when the market is not cooperating with him.
And that demonstrates the dangers of leverage in a small account whose owner’s ego is so big that rather than admit that he is wrong, he would rather go up in flames if the market will not allow him to be right.
It certainly looks to me that he is a bit more interested in being right, than in showing a sound trading methodology, or making money.
How many contracts were being held in that trade?
Ok, so like I said in my earlier post (further down this thread) — if you’re still trading like this with no stop loss, now you lose the house and the car, the wife and the mistress and when nothing is left, we expect a picture of you in your underwear.
And to Osikani’s point below, how many contracts and what is the average profit on a trade. Figure out how many profitable trades you now have to make to get back the $3000. C’mon folks, realize that you can take small losses (without any ego so you admit you were wrong) and then get the profitable trades that more than make back your losses. A friend of mine is a hedge fund manager at a very large hedge fund in New York. He told me the difference between professionals and non-professionals is this:
The first question Nonprofessionals ask is “How much can I make?”
The first question Professionals ask is “How much can I lose?”
I’ve been taking a trial in David Adam’s room. I have to say, I’m disappointed. Most of the time David’s trades go way against him by $600-1200 with 3 contracts. But he’ll hold on to them no matter what, in hopes that it eventually comes back. You might say that taking a $1000 drawdown is normal, but the problem is that his targets are very small, exiting after only $30-50 profit per contract. If you’re willing to hold through $1,000 losses, you need to be aiming for $1000 profit targets. This kind of trading is doomed for disaster for smaller traders, which I assume his members are made up of…otherwise why would they be in there? You’ll wipe out your entire account having one bad day.
Yesterday was a complete disaster and prime example. I wouldn’t be surprised if some people blew their accounts, or at least all of the earnings so far. It just seems that David doesn’t care about the people in the room and their account size. He did switch from sim to live recently, which is a plus and keeps him more accountable. But unless he stops this nonsense with letting his trades go WAY against him and praying it comes back (instead of realizing you called the trade wrong, taking a smaller loss, and waiting for better setups), there’s no way you can really follow him. What’s more aggravating is that every time David lets a trade get away from him, he says “Oops sorry. I promise I’m not going to let trades run anymore”. But then literally a few trades later, he’ll let another one run away from him. If he can somehow get out of that mindset, he might have a chance.
I really wish Emmett would update his Robot to include max drawdowns. When you risk 1k to make $30, it’s doomed for disaster.
I just started taking the trial as well and yes, David did lose around 900$ yesterday and at one point I believe he was down ~1300$. He will regulary take off his stop loss and let the trade run against him but it definitely seems like he knows when to and when to not do it. To be fair he DID warn people to get out of that trade almost as soon as it went against him, which I did and only lost 50$ on my SIM account. We all have our bad days and given the current uncertainty of the market trading becomes even more difficult.
Also he was up 480$ today in less than 2 hours of trading, all winners I might add. That’s pretty good in my book. I wish I could learn his method but it seems like a lot of it is just pure market intuition and experience on his part. A lot of times he will see a setup and he will enter with a market order which, if you’re not glued to his screen you can miss easily as he doesn’t have a lot of time to call out the trades beforehand. I wish he would explain exactly WHY he’s entering each trade, as I think the biggest value here is an opportunity to learn from a profitable trader who doesn’t lose… often. It’s incredible to watch, really. I’m taking notes.
One of the problems as I have mentioned numerous times is David does not keep any type of “Real” track record on his site, which is very suspicious to me.
And he is trading highly leverage highly risky futures. You can be up $10,000 over 2 months and then lose it all in a day. This is high risk stakes, which few survive. So short term performance tells you very little. And again he shows no real track record and Emmett does not keep up with the Robot results. So who knows what the truth is.
But I have to ask if he only allows 20 students he must have hit his max by now.
I just started taking the trial as well and yes, David did lose around 900$ yesterday and at one point I believe he was down ~1300$. He will regulary take off his stop loss and let the trade run against him but it definitely seems like he knows when to and when to not do it. To be fair he DID warn people to get out of that trade almost as soon as it went against him, which I did and only lost 50$ on my SIM account. We all have our bad days and given the current uncertainty of the market trading becomes even more difficult…
Also he was up 480$ today in less than 2 hours of trading, all winners I might add. That’s pretty good in my book. I wish I could learn his method but it seems like a lot of it is just pure market intuition and experience on his part. A lot of times he will see a setup and he will enter with a market order which, if you’re not glued to his screen you can miss easily as he doesn’t have a lot of time to call out the trades beforehand. I wish he would explain exactly WHY he’s entering each trade, as I think the biggest value here is an opportunity to learn from a profitable trader who doesn’t lose… often. It’s incredible to watch, really. I’m taking notes.
Hey Henry, let us know when he takes off the stop loss and that $1300 drawdown becomes $2300, then $3300, then $8000, then your house, your car, your wife and mistress, then a picture of you in your underwear, having sold everything else. Stops have a purpose, they keep you in the game.
Bitter experience has taught me to never move my stop backwards, (unless, of course, I am transitioning the trade into a “hold to EOD” trade, and even then …), let alone remove the stop.
The purpose of a stop loss is to tell me that my analysis was shitty, and if that is the case, the purpose of the stop is to take me out because I am wrong. Removing a stop means that one is more interested in being right than in making money. That kind of ego, then compounds it by averaging down. The result is often accounticide.
Agreed – I got out before today’s total disaster and most days I went my own way after getting the usual $600 in the hole and left to figure out how to get out myself.
Looks like ironically the David’s room may be good at forcing members to quickly develop their own trade management when it seems there are no brakes. I can understand the 74 yr old leaving. This kind freefall/coaster ride-like trading can be dangerous to the heart and blood pressure. Maybe thrilling but dangerous for all involved including the host. Kind of reminds me in the old “Space Mountain” ride at Disneyland with those repeated warning signs for those with heart problems and multiple early exit doors along he waiting area. As a kid it scared the crap out of me just from the anticipation in line.
Anyone who’s a paid member of David Adams trading room/course and would be willing to answer some questions please email me hinally77@mail.com
4 weeks in David Adam’s trading room, wasn’t all days shining giving easy money (was it for anyone else?), but after today, it’s $1,337 in profits (real cash account, after broker fees paid).
Strictly following David’s calls, playing conservatively on my side (fewer contracts), while carefully studying David’s trading ways and learning how whole room operates, along the way.
Adapting myself (my current account size, ability to trade, etc) to what I see in front of me. Made mistakes on my side (profits would have been higher). But just acting, instead of thinking-to-think-about-thinking. Or worrying. Or complaining. Simply performing to my best ability, using guides given. For me, I find it works. So far.
$1,337, not bad for a start, I say to myself. Happy with everything experienced.
Not following all the posts here, and would not want to get involved in all these long conversations. Tradingschools.org is what helped me find David’s room (for this I’m grateful, thanks Emmet!), so just sharing in return.
But will be back here after another month, to just post my latest. Regardless.
Best wishes.
Will, I completely agree with you there and I have been a paid member in David’s room since mid March. I recorded all his entries and exits everyday since April, I did came up with only “2 or 3 questionable dates” on the results that he reported in his end of day email due to David shut down his room while the trades was still in negative but his end of date email show both trades managed to get back in green for a profit at a later time after room was closed. I choose to believe David and continue to stay in his room day after day. I have made all my $1499 investment back by just strictly following about 80% of his trades and I believe I could double that amount if I did follow all his trades with no personal emotions involved. David is not perfect but he opens for suggestions and most importantly he surely know how to trade the NQ. David Adam if you are reading this and my suggestion to you is to leave this blog alone and don’t bother to reply or argue on any comments at all. Only to come back on December 30th to show the world that your $72000 target has been hit. Thanks!
I do not thing any of the questions asked of Dave were unreasonable even mine asking why so many different websites and alias. He could pleasantly explain.
My biggest issue with Dave was that he was trading SIM and does not show a track record, so all you have to go on is a short term Robot Track record. And Emmett does not seem to be keeping that record up to date. He did show some Cherry picked time frame, but that does not tell you much.
Dave may well be a profitable trader, I would just encourage him to actually post a real track record so people can see if his method would work for him. I am talking about regularly updated track record with brokerage statements, videos and all.
Ken and William I hope you keep posting and letting us know how it goes. But I know one trader that told me he had a $10K loss when he was in his Dave’s room before the Robot. That can wipe out a lot of gains. So short term results do not necessary paint an entire picture. Why does Dave refuse to show longer term results. Must be a reason. Maybe not.
Would you guys be willing to post more about your experience in the room, such as the training program and etc and your experience.
And I would encourage Emmett to do a complete review of his room separate from the Robot Thread.
I have been with Dave a couple of weeks now and my experience is the same as William. I am up $1800. and have limited myself to morning trading only. I am just out of beginner status – say low intermediate. I have had two blown accounts the past two years and NEVER should have been trading on my own,
Arguing makes me uncomfortable – always has.
Dave is trading live now and I follow his action very closely and I even carry the laptop to the bathroom.
Wish Emmett would stop reviewing 17 year old children and also establish a coherent chat page.
Good work!
Congrats on your profits but does it not bother you a little while you were risking real Money Davy boy was sim trading.
David is trading live now and have managed to go through my profits sitting watching tick tock while giving me a headache. I have been left an average of $600 in the hole at 11:30 5 times this month – I had to sweat out the recovery getting more nervous each time. i am done playing and will venture into full retirement mode. Thankfully my 2003 Jag runs good and we can make it each month by a whisker and have need of nothing more. I am 74 years old and don’t need this stress. Or any stress. I am just about even in the account. I am not saying David is a problem, his knowledge and experience are far superior to most and he is sincere.
I am confused 2 days ago you posted he made you $1,800 in 2 weeks. Maybe you can share more of your experience, especially being Emmett has no actual review of him, just in his robot thread.
My $1800 is gone along just a tad more I can trade well enough as an average say c plus Thought this would help steady me, bur all I did was stress out filling all the holes I was in first thing Also no trades were given any chance to run either. That made me curious after a while, Good experience – no more TR noise so I can play some relaxing music and make my own holes to climb out of..
“I have been left an average of $600 in the hole at 11:30 5 times this month – I had to sweat out the recovery getting more nervous each time.”
Do you have a plan?
Are you learning the system?
Can you call the trades from the system yourself?
If you are merely treating it as a trade calling service, this is what usually happens when the drawdown starts.
Good choice.. don’t waste your time with these trading rooms, I doubt you will find a room that is able to deliver on their promise – don’t believe these room operators, don’t believe their advertising and don’t believe reviews you find on the internet.
The part that amazes me is 2 days earlier he was posting what I viewed as a glowing review. Maybe people should be in a room for a few months and experience different market conditions before posting a review of a TR site. Just a suggestion.
I’m not surprised. Especially after we found out that McDonalds salary profit of a few months was only sim even on the robot. Past multiple complaints of refunds not returned were flaky enough warning signs.
The problem, I think, is that the SEC should establish an accounting system for all of these so-called “day trading room”. Establish some type of rule that if you are operating as a day trading room, then you have to put your own skin in the game. I wonder how many rooms will disappear as a result? Or is the SEC just willing to turn their back so a regular investor is essentially transferring their wealth to the market.
For me to answer that would take an entire thread, because in my humble opinion every single day trading room would be forced to close. But to understand why you have to understand why this industry is nothing but swindlers and the difference in the fantasy world of trading and the real world of trading. The bottom line is day trading rooms are full of con artist because their selling the exact product that 95% of losing traders want. It really is that sad and that simple.
I have talked about this in other post, but I will give a very very condensed reader digest version by condensing all in 3 simple Examples:
Example 1 )
Fantasy World of trading
With a small $5,000 account you can use 500 to 1 leverage and profitable trade a highly volatile instrument like CL and live the jet style lifestyle.
Real World of trading
The fantasy stated above is just that pure non sense. You will just blow your account. You have to be properly funded to trade, which means the only ones that should be trading CL are GS and very well-funded individuals, which is not 95% of the day traders.
Example 2 )
Fantasy World of trading
You will trade making multiple scalps each and every day rain or shine and be able to quit your horrible job and make a salary day trading with an 80% win rate and virtually no drawdown.
Real World of trading
Man did I condense a lot in one paragraph. The fantasy stated above once again is just pure non sense. You do control the market!!!! What most TR teaches you is to trade pure white noise. If you put up a Bell Shaped Gaussian Curve the failed traders are in the middle and yes there are a few profitable day traders but as time goes out you get few and fewer, because no one can trade white noise over time. If this could be done every great investor would be day trading and all these con artist TR could actually show proof of their claims. No real trader ever traded the complete non sense way the TRs teach. The fact is you will have drawdowns and can even have down years. That is how real trading works. Again this Example would take a thread to go into details.
Example 3 )
Fantasy World of trading
You can wait until you are 64.5 years old to retire and never save a dime and then employ my 6 months $10K into a million dollar program.
Real World of trading
The above is the heart of the TR non sense. Taking advantage of desperate or just plain dumb people that do not understand money or return on money. Again every great investor would be a day trader if this was possible. I showed in my prior post the return of the top hedge fund managers. And mutual funds and CTAs returns are also publically available. But no one want to hear the truth, they want to hear the fantasy world. The pipe dream. The rags to riches story. Facts just get in the way.
If I did not already lose the 95% of day trader’s that will just lose money, I will definitely lose them on my next few statements. I am doing cart wheels if I can make a 25% return on my money a year. And if that did not lose you then this sure will. This year I am up around 8% so far. And guess what I am thrilled with that. I am sure clueless people will be like oh my God that is horrible, but in the real world were CDs pay nothing up 8% so far this year is GREAT!!! And until you can understand that you will just be another sucker that gets scammed by one of the endless TRs.
So now to clearly answer the question, why are there no honest trading rooms and why do 95% fail. And why do people join a TR that shows no proof what so ever of their claims.
Here are 2 TR and you tell me which one you will join.
TR 1 – Jason Bonds Room – Someone posted something just recently along these lines
A student of his turned $12K into a Million Dollars and was awarded with a Porche.
TR 2 – My TR – You must be properly funded to trade (just lost 95% of day trader), you will have draw downs, a low win rate and even down years, and if you make a 25% return in a year that should be considered a great year. In other words with your $5,000 account working 40 plus hours a week In a good year you will make $1,250.
Now honestly which room will you join? I think you now have the answer to the question.
+$375 for the day, +$510 for the week, +$27,069 for the year
Now, when are you going to say that all TR are a farce? C’mon Rob, there are trade rooms that make money, but there are a disappointing and disproportionate number of rooms that have resorted to tricks, dirty tricks, and outright deception. It really stings the group of real live traders every time I see another one-star review.
All sessions video recorded (entire session including winners and losers, yes I lose trades and have losing days), also still reporting results via the bot, and each trade recorded on a spreadsheet. This is just the bot account, no block trades included. Using 1-3 contracts ON THE NQ.
At least give the guys who are making the grade a bit of a pat on the back in the face of what appears to be a very dark, seamy business. I sometimes wonder why I choose to do this retail thing. At least on the Street, all you had was your boss screaming in your ear and then the satisfaction of telling to “stick it up his a**” when the trade won. Or visa versa, unfortunately.
What?!
No 90% win rate?
Actual losing trades?
Only 27k in one year?
You are not allowed to call yourself a TR operator. Not when we can go to Jason Bond and make oodles of money every day, or Minor Mongo can consistently call 100 tick trades with only 2 ticks stop loss.
Stop posting results which reflect the reality of trading. We the sheeple want to see the scammy results.
I have given you your dues because you are using the Robot, but if you do a search you will see some say you had a $10K loser and even Lying Dr. Dean rated you badly. I know you said you had cancer, but should you have been given trading advice if you were not healthy to do such.
The robot results are way too soon to make any predictions on so far and for Goodness sake I wish Emmett would do a review on your site and not part of the Robot thread and keep the robot results continually updated.
Honestly I do not know enough about how you trade to comment for example what funding you are telling people they need to trade 3 Cars on NQ or what risk you are telling them to take or even if you are making multi micro scalps a day.
OK, to be nice I will say 99.9% of TR are scams, maybe you are the unicorn. I will withhold judgement until further robot results. Gosh I can not be to mean to a fellow Floridian.
After all Compared to Jason Bond and Warrior Trading you are an Angel.
BTW, where are those TR making money. Give the list to Emmett as he sure is not finding them. LOL!
The couple of TR that Emmett reviewed positive are good to show their results or verify through the Robot. However, their profits are measly or just break even. Not much hope of trading for a living, or considered worth it as an extra part time revenue stream and it only shows most of the profits of the TR operator come from the subs and product sales rather than the trading. Maybe an exercise in futility finding a profitable TR because a “dream” trader as have been discussed endlessly probably since electronic retail trading began in endless threads and posts would have little need or motivation to run a legit trading room.
Pretty simple math on how many contracts to trade. Don’t risk more than 3% on a given scalp. You can do all the math, but it basically comes down to 1 contract/$5000 of equity.
These results are just from the DOM, not the two blocks of family and friends I am allowed to trade under CFTC regulations. (I keep it under 12 clients just to be safe and stay away from the 15 family and friends mark) I wanted to prove to traders that you can make $75000 just trading the basic equivalent of 1 ES. I am a bit behind but think after the summer session things should pick up. I guess we will see.
I trade just like I was taught on the street, no changes. No lagging indicators, real time, and no tight stops. It works if you are willing to work your ass off and learn, and that is a relatively rare commodity in traders at present.
Emmett seriously needs to do a better job with Robot reporting if he wants people to take it seriously. First the results need to be downloadable. Also I was not sure it the PNL includes commissions or not. Does anyone know.
Anyway looking what he has posted, I saw 45 entries covering 3 months from Feb – April with a total PNL of $9,510, which if it includes commissions is Pretty Darn Good.
Hi Rob, those PNL results posted does not includes commissions, but it shouldn’t made too much of an impact on the actual results since David only averages 3 to 4 trades a day with 3 contracts per trades, commission is around $12 for a 3 contracts round trip per trade.For this month (June) so far he is sitting at +$3835 with around 51 trades taken. That should give him a $3K net profit for month to date. However he has double down to 6 contracts in 3 of those 51 trades, 2 ends up positive and 1 shows a $15 loss. The way David trades is not for any faint of heart because he will let MOST of his losing trades runs for an hour or two with some big swings like over the 3% he mentioned in the other post. On the side note, the other TR I track PNL is Jason Love’s Oil Trading Group, he is +$100 before commission for the month of June so far.
His averaging down is the part that would concern me the most. And the robot does not show that. His trade might end in a profit, but had a large drawdown in the process.
I wish the Robot showed all those stats, but it looks like the Robot is in its infancy and Emmett is not really doing much with it. My guess would be no or virtually no TR wants their real performance known.
Rob, so I added to a position less than 6% of the time and you are worried. Really? Really? c’mon man, have you spent any time with non self-taught traders? Averaging into trades or out of trades is pretty common practice among professional trades and as Ken has pointed out…I seem to have a knack for winning those trades,
My concern is whether or not people are properly funded and if they will end up having to sell during a draw down in a panic. If they are too mimic your trading then they have to be prepared to double down, maybe more, by adding to a trade that is currently under water. I am sure the professionals you talk about are well funded and prepared for such. If you are telling people $5K per contract are they thinking 6 Cars or more and prepared for such. Personally I think to trade futures with $5K of funding per contract is ridiculous but that is my opinion.
The Bottom line is I think the Robot or even you should clearly show all the stats, including worst draw down even mid trade, so people can make an intelligent informed decision. That is all.
Hi David, You are so full of it. Was cancer the reason you refused to refund me?? LOL.
WTF?
Emmett, please remove this disgusting comment.
Actually as unbelievable as it is I am going to defend Paul here. I can see the hate post now.
But David Adams has stated the reason for some of his loss in the past where due to Cancer so I think that makes it fair game for Paul to ask is that the reason for him not getting a refund.
BTW, I have no idea what happened and who did or who did not get a refund.
RobB, you may have missed it. (Yeah I still dislike this new setup on postings. The old way was much easier to navigate.) There was a review on Eminiprofessor maybe more than a year ago , but Emmett took it down later. I’m not sure why. https://www.tradingschools.org/warning/#comment-1768
There’s also thread on trade2win:
http://www.trade2win.com/boards/futures-options/149498-david-adams-eminiprofessor-extreme-caution-3.html#post1886430
I could make $27,069/year flipping burgers at McDonalds. Thanks for the reality check.
Well, I still have the rest of the year to go…but no one is saying you wouldn’t be a hamburger flipper. Since most of your comments toward myself and others have been negative, I suspect hamburger flipping might be right up your alley. Can’t be negative and trade.
Was that an attempt on your part to insult me? If yes, then you failed miserably. For one, because I don’t consider being a burger flipper to be an insult; it’s an honest job, albeit low skilled. And second, because I’m a professional with a well paying day job (about 4-5 times your trading income, if we’re to believe the Robot).
My point, which you totally missed, is that one needs to make more from trading than from a regular day job in order to make trading worthwhile and to warrant paying guys like you big bucks for “training”. But the Robot shows that not even you, the self-proclaimed guru, can make from trading much more than the lowest skilled and paid job in the economy, which is a huge reality check for anybody wanting to drink the kool-aid.
That’s not being negative, that’s being realistic. At least in my opinion, who am not trying to swindle people out of their money with deceitful promises.
Goagal,
The best I can tell from the Robot results and that is all I have to go on, Dave made $9,510 over a 3 month period, but then Ken says that does not include commissions. So the best I can tell from the stats Emmett provides commissions would have been around $2,270 leaving $7,240 of profit over 3 months, which annualizes to a yearly profit of $28,960. But that stat means very little being only 3 months of performance is known. Only time will tell, assuming Emmett even keeps up the robot stats. Of course Dave could provide Emmett with years’ worth of Brokerage Statements showing his trading performance.
But the bigger picture for me, is things just seem “ODD”. I am a big Occam Razor type of guy and something just seems wrong; to me. Dave you do not need to comment, this is just my thoughts take them or leave them. If Dave is this amazing trader even trading 12 other people’s money and he has been trading for decade, shouldn’t he be rather wealthy by now? I am talking the evil 1% or higher. Yet he is doing some minor trading for others and running a trading room. Each can come to their own decision, but paint my evil skeptical self as dubious.
I am not being facetious, but some people just love to teach.
Speaking from experience, trying to help traders for free is useless. One must charge for any kind of mentorship, or the students never use the knowledge, making it a waste of the teacher’s time.
Unfortunately, most of the teaching would appear to be of questionable use in the first place.
You know, I am tired of defending myself on this forum. I have serious doubts about the trading ability of most of you…and frankly, I don’t need the hassle. I’m doing fine. It takes too much energy to combat haters. I just want out of this cesspool, you guys win. I can see nothing positive about being a keyboard warrior. You don’t need me, and I sure as hell don’t y’all. Picking up the southern thing pretty good, eh, Rob.
I’ll stick to what I do best. Trade. I’m outta here. Best of luck in your future trading ventures, I’ll trouble you no further. I’m gone
What haters? I have on numerous time complemented you on using the robot, but also stated 3 months of results is too soon to make any judgement.
Interesting how upset you get over one presenting the results of the robot. If those results are in error you could point them out.
If this site is too tough for you how can you fight the world of trading.
If you do not want to hear or answer hard questions then this is not the site for you, instead you can do what most the vendors do and post a bunch of positive post using aliases on Invest scam you.
I see nothing posted that should scare off a truly honest vendor. Of course with all the battles I get here I am a bit thick skin by now.
Best of luck in you endeavors.
You see that is exactly what I am talking about. Dave making Mcdonald burger flippper salary trading the minute you ask for more data than 3 months..He goes off the deep end. WHAT IS SO DAMN HARD TO PROVIDE 1 YEAR OF BROKER STATEMENT ? Shut us down with proof albiet the low end of fast food industry annual income but blurting out your frustrations in the forum kinda tells the tape( no pun intended)
So that McDonald’s salary for the year was all sim on the robot? So the live trading just started now? Making money from credit default swaps sounds interesting. Maybe the course should be about that instead of trading.
Oh dear me. David is playing the feel sorry for me card. Poor David. and more poor Santosh.
Oh dear me. David is playing the feel sorry for me card. Poor David. and more poor Santosh.
So don’t do things that make people hate you, if
you dislike fighting haters..
By all means, leave, you wont be missed.
Ken,
Even when I took the gloves off I was still way to kind to Dave. When I do the most simple of simple searches I just find dirt after dirt. This is just another reason I posted I was skeptical.
Here is a person that over the last several years ran multiple trading rooms by different aliases and different email including going by the name of “Jim Bounakes”.
What honest business man does this? A business’s name is everything to a reputable business. Do you see Google or Apple changing their names every day?
He seemed to run or have some affiliation with at least the following:
emini professor,
honestforexsignals.com,
unique thinking trading room,
Emini-Maven,
the fractal futures trader and now
learn-to-trade-and-invest.com which was just started last year.
In fact the honestforexsignals site looked like it might have been tracking his own trading room’s performance and rating it high.
What honest person runs several trading rooms under different aliases?. The whole thing stinks to high heaven to me.
I agree it’s very stinky RobB. All those reports about refund problems, different websites. There might be some live results mixed with some sim. I’ve seen it before on other sites. If the results were so good in the past, why not leverage up more? Why just 2 to 5 car and not 20 or more? Because the methods aren’t super. It begs the question a great trader would not be teaching but rather be trading alone or running their own fund. Similar to the young guy of “watchmetrade”. He needs the subs to keep afloat. It seems overall like another “sub-niche” of the retail vendor industry. Those hosts who may be more likely to trade live but with slightly above “average” results catering to those who are willing to go for more “realistic” results, yet needing subs or fees to keep the business afloat.
I think it’s the same guy “trader7757” posting same results as learn-trade-and-invest here on “the fractals futures trader”.
http://www.emini-maven.com/wordpress/2016/06/375-for-the-day-2290-for-the-week-26934-for-the-year%E2%80%8F/
He most absolutely is trader7757. He even explicitly says that he is the only one using the tradingschools.org robot.
Now I am getting leery. Why so many identities?
I know different aliases different websites. This kind of circus just screams con man.
Okay this is the last post.
Learn-to-trade-and-invest is my business site. Emini maven is my blog. The blog title is the “Fractal Futures Trader.” You should read it. DTS came up with the E-mini Professor moniker and I thought it a bit pretentious so when I left them I changed it to something more suited to my personality. I liked Unique Thinking Trading Room. I am trader7757 at just about all the email services google, yahoo and outlook.
Honest Forex Signals is a site owned and operated by an affiliate of DTS. I am relatively sure they aren’t promoting me at present as I no longer work for them, not for 4 years. I do not know who is the registered owner of Honest Forex Signals.
Didn’t want you conspiracy theorists spreading your bullshit all over the internet. I wanted a clean break from Max at DTS. Your assertion that I have rigged the sim. is ridiculous To make all the people happy I dropped of the robot today and traded a live account, as I will continue to do in the future. All my trading sessions are recorded so if there is any day in question I will be happy to give you any video, the are raw and unedited, and the numbers, winning or losing are all there…as numerous room members have mentioned on the robot thread. I didn’t ask them to do it, as you know my personality would not allow me to morph from reptilian mode to ask anyone a favor, it’s just not my style.
James Bonakes was a guy who claimed he could trade and did a few sessions that weren’t to my liking. I was hoping to get a day off as I work at Goldman as an independent contractor resolving and moving credit default swaps. Evaluate, price, then move the swap. It’s not an easy job. While the rest of these crooks charge 7K I charge less than 1/3 of the price and if you are flat broke you can discuss it with me and I let you in the room free. Pretty horrible guy. Yea, what scammer would only take 20 people, no more, in the trading room and only charge $1599 for weekly mentoring and no further trade room charges for life. Yea, I am getting rich on this trading thing. On the other hand, the credit default gig is how I support myself quite nicely. Exotic derivatives is where the money is and it’s something I did professionally. So you have the whole story. Not very messy, really.
Any questions, email me: trader7757@outlook.com
oh, and my live results today were consistent with the robot sim. Perhaps you haven’t traded long enough but in the end trading just becomes a battle between you and hopefully less skilled traders. I don’t pay attention to the money, just try to pick up ticks like it’s the greatest video game in the world. You win trades and the money comes, sim or live. For new traders sim to live is a big deal, if trading has been the majority of your lifes work, it really doesn’t matter…you win because you take pride in what you do and don’t pay attention to anything but winning. Your contempt for sim trading tells me that you have not reached the point where you can just trade. Naw, you worried about trading the PnL…I can smell it on you all. You all emanate the odor of past failures and new found success. But you are still regulated to amateur traders…you miss the forest for the trees.
okay, I promise that it. Just wanted to clear up your conspiracy bullshit. Get a life…and I’m not convinced any of you can trade. Why not sign up for the robot?
I trade live and do not consider sim and live the same at all. Of course it depends on the sim engine. I have seen some con artist use Sim Engines that only give them positive slippage. But even with a more honest sim engine will it really estimate slippage accurately during a news story or a big move. But also there is the psychological effect of losing real money as opposed to sim money.
But I do agree with you about I need to get a life. The robot idea is interesting. But I know someone that said they asked Emmett about the Robot and he never got back with him. I would consider it but my way of trading is so different from what TR teach. Short term for me is meaningless. But I would be game if it does not slow me down or I have to make any changes in the way I trade. I am not sure why anyone would care though being I am not selling anything or promising the fantasy trading world of unbelievable returns.
Not sure why you have to drop the robot to trade live. But congratulations on committing to trading a live account. But if you want to shut me up it is easy. You say you are recording your sessions everyday. Stop making people ask for a recording and cherry picking which one they get.
Every single day, post the dailey recording up on you website, along with an accurate track record along with brokerage statements (being you will be trading live) proving your entries and exits. This is the only way for one to truly see your track record. Cherry picking what you show over certain time periods proves nothing.
Believe me if you do that you will not need tons of website and aliases as you will have more business than you know what to do with. And I will then eat crow. Damn I hate crow.
So he was sim trading with the robot after all. Doesn’t even have the confidence to trade live with it, lol. what bs.
Alright, at least you explained about all those extra old sites and links even though there are no direct links from the current site. If newbs want to learn from for 1k-2k to get their feet wet then perhaps it’s good starting point where it seems it seem you’re at least a breakeven-plus trader which is scores better than most bmt journal fakes and their after the fact chart circles or paying fees to TST.
I thought you left this cesspool of hate …. a trading room operator not true to his word :O
Now you know how REAL trading works, as opposed to fantasy TR trading.
Exactly. And, believe it or not, I was actually thanking David Adams in my post above, for opening up his trading results to the scrutiny of the Robot and helping noobs distinguish fantasy from reality based on some hard data.
The funny thing is I thought I was rather nice to David being he was doing the robot. But if he is walking away from any criticism and afraid to answer questions, then I think I will take the gloves off and state my real opinion.
I am skeptical of David Adams performance, not just for the reasons I stated in my post, but from everything I have seen including, but not limited to the online reviews and his trading Sim. In fact I do not even think the Robot should be used on a Sim trader. Until I find a place willing to take Sim dollars, Sim is meaningless. David says he is this profitable trader, yet he is trading sim. And if David does not have enough confidence in his trading to trade live, why would anyone else. In fact I am pretty sure this is why he does not show any brokerage statements to Emmett. And those statements cannot be pick a short time frame where I made some money brokerage statement either.
Here is what David could and can do not only to shut me up and make me eat crow and I hate the taste of crow, but make a fortune:
1) Trade an actual Live account – Sim is meaningless and as said before if you do not trust your method why would anyone else,
2) Start Posting a Real Track Record Updating it Every Single Day
a. Post those Live trading Videos showing his calls, which show the DOM or Chart Trader up,
b. Post accurate record of your trades showing entries, exits and P/L,
c. Post Brokerage Statement Proving his entries and exits.
3) Open up the Brokerage Account Live in front of people every day showing there is no trickery, and
4) Shove all this information down Emmett’s throat and make Emmett give him a 5 Star Review.
If he does this he will be only TR I have seen that does it. In fact IMO he would be the only honest and transparent day trader out there. He could then post on Twitter and YouTube and do the NT presentation tour and say I am the only TR that actually trades a live account, shows all my trades with Chart Trader on so anyone can easily mimic my trading, post actual Brokerage Statement everyday proving my entries, and on top of all that gotten a 5 Star Rating from Emmett, the toughest TR reviewer out there.
My Goodness could you imagine the number of students he would get?? And I would be forced to eat yucky crow pie.
Now you can come up with a million reasons why he does not do it, but I think there is only one realistic reason and we all know what that is.
Hey Dave proof me wrong, I beg you to do it. Man up and take the Challenge, instead of running away from any comments someone makes about your trading and having to answer questions about your trading method.
Someone asked me about Sim trading.
So I must add the following to my previous post.
David Adams averages down. It is easy to do that when SIM trading. You just keep averaging and averaging down until things turn around. Martingaling so wonderful in Sim. A lot harder with a real account that can be blown, especially when you are telling people they can trade futures with a $5,000 account. Just another reason I am in that dubious category
That’s what the other hosts of WT do , average down with seemingly unlimited “big pockets” with a sim account (or no sim at all, pretend trading talk), often to report a “good day” at the end of the session if Ross’ day falls far short of the email claims. The main goal of the unrealistic sim show by the other hosts is to keep members subscribed by month until they can’t take it anymore and the questions about the room in the back of their minds can’t be ignored anymore not to mention trading losses.
Rob by far the best response or realistic response to date. I think your post should be plastered as splash page for All the trading rooms out there.
Here is Barron’s Top 100 Hedge Funds list. You can see what the “Actual Proven” traders & investors returns are from the best of the best.
http://www.barrons.com/articles/best-100-hedge-funds-1466223924?tesla=y
If you are still living in the fantasy world that Trading Room operators present of pipe dreams and unicorns, I sadly cannot help you.
I will tell you a true story that will explain why 95% fail and cannot be helped by anyone.
When I started to day trader I was looking for diversification. I was already investing in real estate and long term stock holdings. I knew nothing about Day trading, but I understood money and realistic returns. I just like a fool believed these Con Artist Trading Room educators and Scam Rooms. I knew nothing about day trading so why not believe! But it became pretty obvious that the TRs I looked at were all a scam.
Still had no idea how bad the industry was until Emmett’s site. I now realize the who industry is nothing but swindlers.
I finally got off the Kool-Aide and woke up and realize they teach nothing but non sense and stopped trading that way. Now here is the sad part. I was like, “Damn I wish someone had slapped me silly and told me what I now Know”. So I decide to tell other investors I skype with about the difference in the fantasy world and the real world of trading.
Man was I wrong!! These TR are brilliant and the Kool-Aide of pipe dreams is sooooo powerful. I heard the saying you can lead a horse to water but you cannot force him to drink, but saw it up close when I told others about the Day Trading scam.
I am telling you they would rather lose money trading in the fantasy world then have a chance to make money trading in the real world. They got mad at me. They wanted to stay positive and not hear anything that interfered with their fantasy world. Seriously you can be as positive as you want but you are not going to calculate the last digit of Pi. You would think the fact that no one; not a single one of these con artist can show proof of their claims would be evidence, but no it apparently is not.
These are desperate people some that are close to retirement who have not saved or desperate to pay bills and now have all their hopes of making insane returns on their money via day trading. Nothing and I mean nothing – no evidence or logic matters. They just do not want to hear it.
This sounds like this guy copying the Al Brooks scam.
Claims to be successful for 25+ years, writes books, holds seminars to suck in more newbies.
His chat room charges $99 yet no Dom, No proof of being profitible and announcing Limit trade entries after the fact.
I hope Emmett reviews Al Brook’s room and material someday. His operation is intriguing. He journals like a real trader. And he dogmatically runs his room consistently for the whole session from opening until closing bell like a real job most every day in his room. His books, although hard to slog through have decent beginner ideas about price action although some claim it’s derivative of older works. Yet, he refuses to show proof or entries or exits real time. Trades are never called out. Only a few after the facts comments. The screen is just the slow 5min ES with one 20 ma. Very boring. So much work just to perpetrate a supposed scam. While most every trading room quits after after an hour or two or come up with imaginary trades “after hours”. Like he has nothing else better to do with his day, unless he is actually trading and commenting aloud. Hard to tell maybe on purpose.
Real trading IS boring. One spends most of the time just waiting for the trade to setup, then sometimes have to scratch it because the order does not fill quickly enough, and start waiting all over again.
I’m aware there are boring aspects of trading. My point was to show that Brooks’ has a very long session without entries or exits throughout the whole session and to ask if he could be reviewed to have the TS oinion if he was actually trading or not or just putting on a long slow show to make it seem legit.
You aren’t paid to trade, you are paid for your patience. If you don’t have that go flip burgers with Goagal.
wow, talking to me like I was a newb. You would be bored out of your mind too if you were in Brooks room, not showing any trades, and muttering commentary that often didn’t come from his books along with his droning single tone voice for the whole NYSE session.. But I guess GZT with his 7k room and colors for a few hours is entertaining enough and must be “worth it”.
Thanks Emmett! what really supirses me is some of these rooms I’ve never heard of and they keep popping up..
Nearly every single day, another pops up. Like little mushrooms popping up on a fresh cow turd.
I squash them as fast as I can. But I keep getting poop on my shoe.
Hope you’re wearing cowboy boots, not white shoes :))
And hope the cows don’t have diarreha, but in this “profession” constipated bulls are the rare specimen, but cows that poop mountains of turd are a dime a dozen. And they then have the nerve to proclaim their sh$t don’t stink.
lol!
Looking at the site and skimming the Ninja ecocesspool video with NQTrader.us on May 16th, he mentioned they trade mainly for 8 ticks, mornings and evening where there could be trades from 3am to 4pm (est) yet says early on in the video not many trades are needed like three or four. Yet Emmett’s numbers in the review shows about 30 trades a day average. Assuming 80% winners and losers are roughly 8 ticks each at 2 contracts it could be $2880 profit a day with $300 in commissions which is decent enough but of course no real proof. About 80 people are following on twitter which could amount to 80x300x12 + 80×1500 if they they got the discount for the morning session with the required 1.5k trading video course. ~ $149k which is close to the claim “make 150k+ a year trading for yourself”. Just amazing how similar it looks and sounds to so many other sites and their NT ecocesspool vendor webinars. If I was completely new, I would have sadly had kool-aid hope and interest from the presentation. There always just new people to trading each year it seems who can’t seem to wise up even with review info until they’ve been burned like everyone else. It’s like the Star Wars “force trick”…”you don’t…need…to see the statements”…flicking the hand slowly..
I dont know how anyone can outrun those commissions. This Jordan is a real character. Ask him to provide proof of his trades and he immediately turns into Godzilla stomping his way through Tokyo. A real meanie.
His game is 100% newbie day dreamers.
Been a long time since I got a nice review out. But I have one coming out shortly. Not a day trading room, but a guy that trades and educates, and I have been tracking him. Good stuff.
WHY WHY WHY is it so hard to just show us that Someone Anyone can make 50 bucks a day not asking for much here. Hey I want to spend 7k on your trading products but first can you please pretty please with sugar on top show me that you can actually make money and be consistant ..”HOW DARE YOU” why is that such a common remark? I would love to see a trader say “I am going short at this X price ” watch it occur in time and sales when it hits the announced price and no hindsite crap..then say “Iam covering at X price” not some wide range aloof comment. Also hit time and sales. Unicorn please stand up.
I think the big thing here is that whilst trading is simple, it isn’t easy. A big, big difference.
Not many people can do it, and those that can and are successful at it are unlikely to give a shit about providing a service that others can follow on the back of them.
The majority of day trading rooms are scams. This is usually because the “educators/day traders” are failed traders themselves, but know enough about the markets to sound convincing. Combine that with fancy looking charts and indicators they stole and repackaged from Futures.io and voila, ching ching.
I will be honest and tell you that as a day trader myself and knowing many other day traders, the last thing on our minds is to open up a room. What a hassle that would be. Can you imagine? There is zero reason to do it if you are profitable.
Which is why you should always tread carefully.
I despise vendor’s who make claims about how successful they are or how good their indicator packages are – but fail to provide proof.
Back To The Future trading is one fine example. Michael Lydick will pull out every excuse under the sun not to provide proof his indicators “work”. Why? because they don’t. It is as simple as that.
Read this extract from BTTF website: “Powerful FLUX data mining indicators scan across thousands of historical price bars on your computer and project market turns and reversals to the second, days and hours before the move – with 65-70%+ accuracy. Patiently watch as 2-5 trades with 80+ percent probability setup every market session.”
imagine that being stated in a court of law. What would the judge insist on to substantiate the statement? Proof? You betcha – Michael cannot and will not prove that statement above because he can’t!
I have written (and spent hundreds of hours doing so) my own indicators that identify entry points. They are profitable – but why the heck would I want to sell them? Zero reason.
I would however entertain selling the indicators that didn’t quite work – and knowing people would pay $299.00 a pop, why not?
The moral here is this. If you want to make money trading, learn to trade yourself.
Thanks Winter for the comment. Looking at your post I guess it makes sense for any trader who makes money consistantly Not to bother with a service. It appears that its just sweat and years of pain to get to that level. I was hoping for a mentor type to kinda steer right direction and cut the learning curve some and learn to do it myself.
@BigLou
Whilst having a mentor could potentially smooth out your learning curve, I am not sure many new traders would want to sit on their hands for 12 to 18 months without trading a dime.
I don’t know what market you trade or want to trade but I am assuming ES. Most people gravitate to that because it is a very liquid market and has some nice moves. It can also bite you hard. Each instrument has its own nuances that you just need to learn on your own and it takes a long time to do so.
Computers control every market and they have a mathematical reason for doing everything they do. The bonus is, every single day they tell you exactly what they did because they leave a whopping great footprint called Price Action that shows up on every chart and in any time frame you wish to view it. The institutions are not hiding anything.
To move forward I would consider the following.
1. Clear your head of what you think you know about trading and concentrate your learnings towards two things. Price Action and Volume Profile. Don’t get confused with TPO / Market Profile. IMO that is old, antiquated and of little use these days. Volume Profile is where it is at. Whilst order flow is also very important, not many people can grasp its importance in the beginning.
2. How much are you prepared to lose/risk on each trade. Forget the profits. Manage your risk first and foremost, profits will follow.
3. Work out your Probability of Ruin.
4. Do your homework and prepare each and every day. It doesn’t matter if you are wrong and the day finishes opposite to what you thought. Preperation is key.
5. 50-75% confidence that a trade will work out is probably the best you are going to get. Any better odds than that and the trader is either lying or is in that top 1% that are just that good. I know one trader like this, but they never, EVER claim how good they are and will never open a trading room – so chances are you will never know one. What I am saying here is, don’t believe the BS of 89.9% winning days in a row…
6. You will have bad days where your guts will feel like they have been ripped out through your butt.
7. You will have good days where you feel like the best trader on the planet and nobody can stop you.
I could probably list 100 more things…
” I would love to see a trader say “I am going short at this X price ” watch it occur in time and sales when it hits the announced price and no hindsite crap..then say “Iam covering at X price” not some wide range aloof comment. ”
I remember when I used to do that in the “Traders Lounge” at TOS. Told them the entry price beforehand, then gave exits after I got filled. When the target was hit, I would type in: “BAM! In your face.”
Eventually, the moderators got so overbearing that I left the room completely. I still, even now, get email and Skype requests from some of the other in the room to come back in.
Doubt what I say? Hie on over to that room on the TOS platform and ask about me. See for yourself what the other trades say.
Note that I did not give any information about how to contact me, so this is not an ad. Just saying that it is doable. It is not easy, but it is rather simple. In fact, the more complicated the system is, the higher the chances that it will fail. The trading got better as my charts got emptier.
Thank you for responding. Are you the mystery trader that Emmet now and then refers to about ” real trader that pays his bills trading” but may or may not have a service?
No. I am not that person. Emmett has not bothered to vet me yet, because I do not run a trading room or advertise for mentees.
I was led to believe that the TOS moderators got on me because they were beginning to think that I was calling trades for clients who were also in the room. Kind of like we were using them as a TR. I was NOT. I just liked helping those who wanted to understand what I was doing.
Anyhow, eventually I left the TOS Trader’s Lounge.
Ok I can understand that. Since you dont have a room or mentor anyone I hate to put you on the spot but are you that 10% of traders who can make a living from this craft?
I do not advertise for mentees: I do mentor, and I do not do it for free, for reasons which are easily explained, if you care to know. All my mentees come to me by word of mouth, or reference by someone who knows me or about me.
You are not putting me on the spot. I do live off my trading.
No, I do not have a win/loss ratio of 90%, and I do not live by a dogma that the target must be placed at least 3 times as far as the stop or any specified ratio.
My trading is based on statistics: essentially the probability of reaching targets and stops, and the expected value of the trade. If the trade sets up to my parameters, I will take the trade, even if the system calculates a stop that is bigger than the first target. Expected value (must be positive and large enough for the anticipated market conditions), and size limits (target must be bigger than minimum I will accept, and stop must be smaller than maximum that I will accept), are the primary conditions. Then I apply a filter to make a decision.
Most of the trades are trend trades, which means that I wait for the trend to develop, then get in, which also means the entry would be considered as late by most others, but if the stats say to take the trade, then I take it anyway. You would be surprised how many times I buy when everyone’s indicators say the market is overbought, and the market just gets more overbought, or the converse on the sell side. On the other hand,
I do sometimes take what would look like counter-trend trades. I call them getting into the trend early, then adding on when the trend is developed.
I have specific WRITTEN rules for each trade, and its management, and after all this time, I still keep a journal, though it has gotten really boring, as most of the entries are just that a setup has been perfectly met, and which setup it is. No patterns like triangles, H&S and so on, and no candlestick patters, though I do keep an eye on them to see if the provide any edge. Notably, almost every time that I journal a trade where I relaxed a rule, I see that the trade became a loss. Of course, many of the trades that perfectly matched the rules got stopped out too or only hit breakeven offset.
Hello Osikani, Your points are well taken. In particular: (1) you do not have to be a 99% profitable trader not even 80% or 70%, it’s a matter of bigger profitable trades than losing trades; (2) there can be losing days, as long as you have good risk management and clearly defined stops (which you adhere to), then you will live to trade again; (3) I still keep a journal, even after more than 15 years trading, it reminds me of mistakes that I’ve repeated or tried not to repeat and positive moves that I can add to my ability to trade profitably; (4) yeah, even with clear rules, trades can be wrong, it’s just important to remember that and get out at your stop — your system was wrong and you’re out; (5) trade with the trend, and remember that trend is defined by which time frame you are trading; (6) traders have all kinds of ways to trade including patterns or candlesticks, I personally only trade with one indicator which is a confirmation of my entry, and my system is mostly based on price, including where I place my stops; (7) regarding keeping a journal, it serves to remind me that when I get lazy or don’t do my homework or skip one of my steps to a trade, it usually results in a losing trade. Thanks for your input and good luck with your trading.
Thanks for the reinforcement.
“(2) there can be losing days, as long as you have good risk management and clearly defined stops (which you adhere to), then you will live to trade again; (3) I still keep a journal, even after more than 15 years trading, it reminds me of mistakes that I’ve repeated or tried not to repeat and positive moves that I can add to my ability to trade profitably; (4) yeah, even with clear rules, trades can be wrong, it’s just important to remember that and get out at your stop — your system was wrong and you’re out; ”
I most certainly have losing days. That is what “quit trading” rules are for, and those rules must be obeyed, even when the feelings for “revenge trading” crop up. There is nothing like a journal for showing one that “revenge trading” almost always results in bigger losses, and that it is better to quit, when the rules say so. I have specific written rules for when to quit. In fact, that section of my rules is the first part of my rule set.
I cannot stress enough the importance of the journaling, especially when one really get serious. It alone was a big part of my stopping free mentoring. Once I started to charge, the students decided they wanted value for their money, and did as I said, as I made it clear that without the journal, there was nothing to discuss. When I used to mentor for free, most people had all manner of excuses why they had not started a journal, and then still wanted to ask me questions which would have been answered by the journal. Then they got upset when I said that I could not make any conclusions or help, as I had no record of what they had done or what they were thinking or feeling at the time.
The stop should be placed exactly where the system says that price getting to that level implies that you are wrong, and its only purpose is to get you out of the trade when you are wrong. Moving the stop and praying, is just indulging in hopium. I assure everyone that imbibing hopium just leads to accounticide.