Thanks for reading today’s brief update of Investors Underground.
I have been highly critical of Nathan Michaud and his live, stocks day trading room. You can read my original review of Investors Underground here. Investors Underground, when analysed using Google search patterns and estimated volume of traffic, is one of the most popular live, stocks day trading rooms on the internet. The hustle has its roots planted in Timothy Sykes Investimonial’s website, where Nathan has massive number of fake positive reviews.
My original review was a pretty scathing hit piece on Nathan Michaud as well as some of the moderators within Nathan’s live trading room. The core complaint was that there is simply no transparency within Nathan’s live trading room. It is primarily a social hub, where people gather and simply chat about stocks. Nathan has no track record, nor does he trade live. Nor do any of his moderators have any track record, and there is no way to track the performance of any of the trading moderators. Truthfully, I consider the vast majority of trading educators to be low level criminals with plenty of bark, but little bite. Now that I have gotten that little it of entertainment out of the way, lets talk a moment about Investors Underground and if things have changed since my original review.
In the past month, yet another subscriber of Investors Underground sent me an email asking that I take another look at this company. And so I did. From August 11 through August 13, I spent an additional three days in the Investors Underground chat room. What did I find? Well, nothing has changed. Its the same old story. Plenty of newbies chatting, but absolutely no clearly defined trading signals from any of the trading room moderators. Once again, I asked for specifics of any trades that were called by the moderators, and yet again I was simply ignored. However, the best that I was offered were the chat logs of everyone that conversed within this highly popular, and expertly marketed trading room. The closer that I attempted to penetrate the cloud of chatter, the more misdirection that was deployed.
Truthfully, I was hoping that my highly negative review would of spurred some positive change. I can be quite the troll and be downright nasty to some of these trading vendors. With Nathan, in particular, my attack was vicious and I really went after him. However, he has flat refused to engage with me on a personal level. The only time I am able to have any sort of conversation with Nathan is when I change my identity and act like a fresh lamb ready for his marketing slaughter. Disappointing. It appears that he is only willing to lash out at me through proxy…getting Erik Wood to call me at all hours of the night and scream at me over the phone. Poor Eric Wood, being used like a puppet by Nathan, and he doesn’t even realize it. Oh well.
From time to time, I do receive feedback via email or blog post from current subscribers of Investors Underground. Today, I received one such blog post. The message was from a current subscriber, that took the time to write out their individual experiences inside of the trading room. His/Her review is pretty gentle, but I feel like the writer did a great job of highlighting their own person experience. I would like to wrap up this quick review with the content that was sent to me, referencing their personal experience inside of the Investors Underground live day trading room.
This review is my honest and scrutinized opinion.,unbiased .I was a member of IU for 2 months .I am trading about 2 years now .Cant say very successful But consistent .I have tried different newsletters – like Tim’s Penny silver . i heard a lot about IU so thought to give a try .Then i joined and was there for 2 months .
First of all , $197 p/m for IU standard is pricey .Their aim to advertise to make this community for both new traders and experience traders .so most of the traders (newbie) who takes good amount of time to be make money ,$197 a month is definitely expensive for them also if you add software fees , L2 ,brokers fess etc.
Secondly there are no alert from nate and other moderators .I know alert service is not good to be blindly followed but it is definitely helpful to understand the trade plan to be educated and to support ( from a pro trader) your trade idea on a particular stock ( if you already have before alert)
It is for sure that IU is a great community for all pro traders But most of them (95 % ) do not participate any ideas ,discussion , watch list ,trade plan in the chatroom . Which is more annoying is that most of them do not response to you if you ask some trade related questions or any other kind of advise You feel like a dickhead and left alone! They are already successful so why they have to care about you !They will discussing ideas among good friends – Nate,modern rock ,d4ytrad3,elkwood etc. But i assumed that as it is a paid chatroom ( specially $197 pm ) so I expected more than nate’s watchlist !
Thirdly you have to be very careful ( newbie ) when asking Q because IU love to Gag ppl .Most of the ppl in the chatroom do not ask nonsense questions but also for some funny reason IU moderator are very sensitive .It is rather a chatroom for elite pro traders with their alien discussion ( terms / phrase difficult to understand for new trader ) than a free discussion of trade plan which actually can be useful in a day trade making some real money than showing off who is more knowledgeable and smart !!!
Fourth Nate hardly trade stocks between $1 – $5 , Most of his trades based on over $10 – $100 ,which is not convenient for small accounts ( I think most of the start-up traders have small account )No one can grow a small account with a high price stock because most of your money involved in one high price stock trade !
Fifth Nate and other traders do not mention their entry exit , profit ,loss etc in the chatroom .So you are blindly following a GURU not knowing what is his activity .I think it is very important to get motivated if you know how is your Guru performing.
Overall it is a great community for Pro trader if you want to make friends , share trade ideas and praise among themselves But definitely confusing and not useful for New trader because I believe with learning curve someone need to make some money while trading otherwise it is like being smart ass with no real work.
I am sure Nate is a great person and trader I like him for his humble attitude But also he needs to understand to run a paid service ,services need to be actually there .That chat room need some changes like other available chartrooms – alert , trade plan ,low price stocks , giving priority to every paid members not only friends etc. Then I am sure it will the best chartrooms among others .
I hope Nate read this and do something about it .if changes comes I will be the first to join IU again .
I felt like this was a very friendly, forthright, and honest review of Investors Underground. My only caveat to this written review is that the reviewer was never actually able to verify that Nate and his moderators are ever actually trading. And so, from his perspective, he paid for the service for two month and spent $400 dollars in the hopes that he would be able to synthesize what the “profitable” moderators were teaching. I would take this a step further and just come right out and state that I dont believe that Nathan Michaud is even trading. Rather, Nathans game is one of a professional marketer. Nathan probably understands with great clarity that he is probably only going to be able to heist these folks out of roughly two months of paying subscriptions, and perhaps the purchase of his DVD.
Well, that’s if for today. Thanks for reading.
Hi Emmet,
FYI, the link to your original IU review seems to be broken.
Hi Emmett,
I’m not going to defend Nate here. But I do feel like your reviews about him aren’t exactly fair. Especially if you are affiliated with someone like Dekmar trades who seems to be lacking a lot of basics regarding to trading.
First of all I am not a member of Nate’s chatroom, and never have been, but I have read in many reviews before by other people as well that his chatroom is moderated pretty badly. Everyone can write whatever they want. And from my understanding it’s better to approach Nate’s friends, not Nate himself if you feel the need to ask someone trading advice in his chatroom.
The thing however that is useful IMO, are his DVDs. I don’t suggest you to pay for them but with a little digging online, you can find them.
That is why, unlike you I do not think that Nate is a marketer who doesn’t trade. Because the trading advice he gives in his DVDs are applicable in real life. Unlike Tim Sykes advice. Which in a nutshell is to trade stocks that are pumped by promoters. Which was useful 10 years ago when pump-and-dumpers actually could create some volume, because they weren’t caught that fast, but Tim’s advice is less useful nowadays IMO.
But, to give you a fair idea of the strategies Nate (and Cam who run Investors Underground together) claims he uses, you can check his YouTube channel out. They’ve made an 8 part “Beginners Trading Guide” which pretty much cover the same topics as his DVDs. The DVDs are basically the same, but more detailed.
Here is the link to tthe 8 parts series:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wNYdfbRZL_w&list=PLHwh3-YF4uak1x9ghKkKhAHHDwdAK-by3
He basically determines strength and resistance lines. And uses the following strategies to trade those lines:
– Using an ABCD pattern for long trades (in “Beginners lesson 3 of 8” at 10:28 and 12:48, there is actually a screenshot of Nate’s profits and losses of that day)
– Shorting stocks that suddenly went parabolic.
Unlike your affiliate (Dekmar trades), he actually does know basic trading terminology and charting.
Nate’s buddies who don’t run an online chatroom of their own do share a lot of things online for free. And unlike Jason Bond, a pump-and-dumper you also reviewed. His friends aren’t people who try to hype up a low float stock. So, they can pump-and-dump it.
If you wonder who I mean with his buddies. Here are a couple of them on Twitter:
– Ozarktrades
– Modern_rock
– mrockrulez (free trading advice from Modern_rock)
– lx21
– IU_Chat
– elkwood66
– offshorehunters
– kroyrunner89 (who also has his own DVD, and used to do a monthly trading recap on his YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/user/kroyrunner89/videos?disable_polymer=1)
The reason I mention these people here, is because you can check them out yourself. Unlike Jason Bond’s buddies, these people aren’t pumping and dump shitty stocks 24/7.
So, in a nutshell, do I think Nate’s chatroom is useless? Yes, especially if you expect free tickers.
Do I think his trading advice which you can find partially for free on YouTube or on his DVDs useless? No, unfortunately I haven’t been able to backtest them though. Since I don’t have access to free intraday data.
The main problem with Nate’s strategy is, you need a lot of money to begin with. Because you have to slowly get into a trade, and slowly get out of a trade, which is impossible if you have less than $25K due to the pattern day trader-rule. And to avoid this, you have to use dodgy offshore brokers like Suretrader who allow you to avoid the PDT-rule (I don’t know how they manage to do this).
PS: But my criticism in general is, that it’s pretty disappointing that you are so harsh on guys like Nate, but give people like Sean Dekmar a free pass, because they are an affiliate (you gave him two positive reviews, just because he’s an affiliate). Especially when everyone in the comment section bashes Dekmar. One of the first comments is actually “Dekmar trades is honestly a disaster”.
And screenshots don’t mean shit. I can fake them pretty easily if I want to. Nate also used to have screenshots on Twitter, just like the ones in his “Beginners Trading Guide part 3 of 8” on YouTube I’ve mentioned before.
You took a lot of time to write this comment! Thank you.
Regarding the affiliate program with Sean Dekmar…its the meager earnings from that affiliate program that subsidize many of the reviews.
Everyone has an affiliate program. Including Nate. I could just as easily promote his stuff, but I just dont believe in this guy, only because I cannot verify his trading results. He has a pleasant personality, but he lacking in transparency.
Now the critique about Sean Dekmar, I dont think its fair. Sean publishes his trades and I verify the performance. As a matter of fact, if you like, I can publish his past 6 months of monthly account statements. The earnings, as usual, are very good.
Look, I just want readers to have a fair shot at success. And I know that best way to give the reader a fair shot is to verify who is trading live, and who is not trading live.
Looks like its time for a Sean Dekmar update.
I joined him and will be leaving soon. The guy is all over the place. He cant even use consistent language. Use words like Scaled in… re hit TRCH, long or short, done with, added SPCE (long or short?). Every time he is using a new phrase. Most of the time one can’t even tell if he is buying or just making a comment. Now he asks for even more money.
This guy (Nate), uses difficult language on purpose: 1) To discourage morons from using his services (because they’d better go fishing or something and not trade…), and 2) to make it difficult for copycats and bots to exploit his alerts.
The high monthly fee is also due to reason 1 above – to filter morons who shouldn’t be trading, or at least avoid getting into a level of trading which is way too high for them.
Thanks Emmet for your review.
after a lot or research this confirm my suspicion, definitely NOT joining IU.
I also want to mention that exactly the same thing happens in Tim silver chat room. ppl get gag constantly, you can not ask for help because some members will LOL at you. sometimes you can see Tim talking in the room (which I doubt is really him), if you ask him something in private or in open chat, he will not respond to you, i feel like im in a chat room full of teenagers and immature people, Unfortunately i have subscribed for a full year.
I would like to see your review about Timothy Sykes in this website and people opinions.
Emmett, I have been following Nate, ModernRock, Eric Wood and the rest of his buddies on Twitter for over 2 years and have just recently become suspicious about Nate. I knew about his prior SEC run in, but I decided to google him and ran across your review. Amazing, I knew I wasn’t crazy. You know as a new trader you just are not able to pick up on certain things, and you feel like this guy is always on the right side of the trade. I am not in the IU chatroom, just simply talking about his Twitter feed(which btw has 70k + followers). What you soon start to realize is that every time he claims to have a winning position, it is always in total hindsight(after the fact). He does a very good job of making it seem like he had the right idea prior to the move(I picked up on this). But in reality, its always in hindsight. My point is, anybody can say what he says when there is no paper trail and it is after the fact. If Nate is not being honest, then he is doing a very good job of deceiving people into believing he is actually making these trades.
The reality is I assume many new traders see him as incredibly legit and by the way I think he offers good advise in terms of how to manage risk. The problem is Nate is charging a fee for a service. Why would most newer traders want to join a chatroom that charges $197? Probably not just because they want to get sound advice on risk management. More than likely they think they are getting an edge because they see Nate and his friends “making” all this money on Twitter and if they join they will be on the inside.
You know one thing about ModernRock is he talks about all these FURUs(fake GURUs) that claim they are good traders, but yet have to charge a hefty fee as a chatroom moderator. Well then what the hell is his friend Nate doing?
Extremely thankful I came across this website as I was first ready to buy Tim Skyes stuff. I used to be in internet marketing and Tim appears more like Frank Kern(master marketer) then an actual trader with ALL of his marketing so a little red flag went up.
After digging some more and coming across this site it confirmed what appeared to be obvious. It’s just great marketing. After being disillusioned about Tim I was jumping over to IU and it’s looking like the same thing if not worse. Guys selling high ticket items and making a KILLING on marketing thanks to the newbies. Thank you as you saved me a lot of time and money!
Happened to me aswell, after consuming a lot of free youtube about the topic with Tim and his students, I was just about to buy a DVD…..then I started to dig around and well…..my conclusion is that there are a lot of legit guys which maybe started with the Tims and Supermans etc…..but they did what everyone should do: Study like a mad man, read books and try to find an edge somewhere else than this marketing fakes.
And you definetly won
t find the edge if Tim teaches you about basic Stock Penny patterns and basic dip buy strategies.Tim wont teach you quant analysis, Ichimoku clouds and stuff like that.
So my next step is to buy some books and learn it the hard way.
Sure…. let’s all listen to the guy with the blog bashing every trading program out there. IT IS OBVIOUS this guy is a gun for hire. Best reviews go to the firm that puts money in his pocket. That’s why he has this BLOG!! wake up people! .. The truth is the best review can only be done by YOU and trying some decent programs, and there are some decent ones out there. Read read read trading books from well known professional legends, they are not hard to find and you’ll be able to sniff out a scam right away without the help from this blog. Trading success only comes from hard work and your OWN EXPERIENCE… you need to blow up a few small accounts …. get back on your feet until you really get your system down pack. People always want a shortcut and follow others, especially when it comes to trading, DON’T! you can take some tips here and there from these guys but that’s it, because at the end of the day it is a business to them – to teach eager rookies basic stuff they can learn on their own. A professional trader always cash flow their personal accounts, that’s why most of these guys have these chatrooms and DVD programs. They are smart enough to cash flow their trading accounts so they can stay in the game. If you think you can trade for income without a decent cash flow from another business or job you have another thing coming! and will eventually fail. Look at the structure of wall street. They get paid high fees to trade other people’s money, they first guarantee that their bills are paid with a basic income. Some other smart gurus make courses, to pay their bills first. Listen here folks, the main thing is, always do your own research and trade your own system, and make sure you cash flow your trading account! even if you have to create a side business and be your own boss. That’s all hard work if you are not ready to set up and test your own trading system. Get another business, trading isn’t for you!!
@Jacques I am nominating you for the “Long Winded Nonsense Post” of the month award. How does anything you’ve written relate to or refute Emmett’s review of Investors Underground? You start by attacking Emmett and then attack trading gurus which must include Investors Underground. Did you have fight with the girl friend or something? Save us all some time next time and go go straight to kicking the cat.
This may be old news but I saw this link posted in a chat room https://www.goodetrades.com/2012/01/penny-stock-trader-nate-michaud-settles-with-sec-in-pump-dump-case/ They’re a good company to stay away from
I’ve been a UI member for since 2012, Nate is the real deal, but honestly not the best educator out there; so if you are new to trading and need lots of hand holding, it may not be the best spot for you. There are plenty of experienced traders in the room that bring a lot of different skill sets. Some people are helpful, some not.
Personally, I use the chat as a place for idea generation various people may alert different things and then you can decide to trade or not based on your plan, Probably around 90% of the things alerted in the room I do not trade myself on the average day, but sometimes there are some real home run ideas that more than pay for the yearly fee.
Most new traders do not have a trading plan and are just trying to copy someone else so they likely will find UI service frustrating cause that’s not what it’s about. If you get Nate’s DVD it will give you a general overview of what he does, but I still think you need to make it your own.
IU is one of the best chat rooms out there. The first thing to do is get his DVD’s so you know the lingo and set ups. Hell, if you can’t afford them, torrent them. Nate’s profits are real. A 70% success rate is not that hard to achieve for an experienced trader. If you doubt he really trades, watch his free video trade recaps on Youtube . He isn’t verified on profitly any more because him and Sykes had a falling out back when Sykes was dumping his gurus. Every night Nate has a watch list posted and trading plan for the next day. If you can’t follow that, then it’s on you. A chat room isn’t for hand holding of those too lazy to read the plan and do their own thinking.
@ Guest, how hard would it be for Nat to verify his trades? I can’t think of anything easier in the world for a trader to do. I can’t think of a single reason why someone who is selling a trading product wouldn’t do it and quadruple the number of people signing up for their service. I can only think of one reason why they wouldn’t. There’s only one reason that Nat doesn’t verify his trades. He’s hot a trader, he sells products.
Well today confirmed it for me. Walking away! Was ready to go all in with IU when they came out with their “referral program” on you tube with Cam and his annoying Aussy accent. Hey when IU is more interested in referrals, and they have gone to great lengths to create this program, then that confirms for me that they are not traders and I know I am in the wrong place. Moving on to more fortright and honest people. Bye Nate.
i was there for 2 months, everytime i asked nate something the reply would be (trade your plan), all i can see at the end is (well done guys , nice trade)
never saw an entry nor an exit, even if he mentions, he never says it clearly
i only talked to Elkwood and Crawfishpoboy, they were super nice and helpful.
especially Elkwood, heck i thought he mistake me for one of his friends lol
everything is fast in the room, a newbie, is really lost in there, watchlist is good
mostly higher priced stocks for small accounts. plus 180 members, its overcrowded , no wonder
nobody is answering,they form their lill groups, they discuss matter in a small group,
the 160 other members are left alone, plus 197 is waaaaayyyy too much!
I am amazed at the negative feedback about Investors Underground. I’ve been a member for years (Grandfathered $99/month subscription) and I can say for a fact that he most definitely does post his entries and exits in real time. Nate verified his trades on profit.ly and simultaneously posted them on his Twitter account in the past. I will say that profit.ly is a legit verification platform because I have used it before. My only reservations about it are: it allows traders to “skew” resulting chart by letting traders erase bad trades and they require your brokerage accounts username and password (big security issue) to download the trades directly. While profit.ly does allow one to post picture proof, anyone can doctor a photo. I don’t think Nate verifies on profit.ly anymore since his partnership with Timothy Skye’s ended though(I don’t dislike or hate Tim, I think he is a great salesman, and quite entertaing too). As for the moderators on the site, they cannot trade their ideas actively while answering newbie questions all the time. It takes a lot of concentration to trade a plan. I too have talked to Eric Wood on the phone and in private message in the chat room. He’s the real deal just like Nate. I have also talked to another mod(@Freeflow) in chat as well and he has given me some good trade advise as well. Tough break to those that feel that they got cheated when going to Nates room, but while I haven’t been the most successful trader, I have gained great inside from Nate, Eric and others in the IU community. I’m still a member but haven’t been in chat very often because I still have a career that I enjoy working in, but the times that I do trade, I’m in the chat room and have always felt at home.
Great comment. Glad to read that you are getting something useful out of Nate’s room.
http://www.investorsunderground.com/another-wild-day-video-stats-chat-logs/
thats one of dozen things I have found. seems legit to me about alerting trades, explaining trade ideas etc…
thanks for the review. saved me from subscribing. i tried bullsonwallstreet. after the 2 week trial i cancelled. a nice guy, a pathetic day trader.
My suspicion on nathan and many other traders is that they have profitable broker statements, but they won’t share them because they don’t want anyone to figure out they are liquidating partial positions into their alerts. Those statements could get in the wrong hands should anyone ever subpoena this site.
Nathan can publish is statements once a year, on his site. Why is it a bad thing to make these guys offer proof?
I agree it is a great thing. Nathan has already had his run-in with the SEC–I think he’s scared to put any documents out there that can be scrutinized. As a moderator of a chat room for equities, are there disadvantages to posting your results? Could it provoke an audit? Certainly if one was trading mainly OTC.
WOW!!! I was in there for a couple months and I know you are dead right!!! He most certainly does sell into alerts and this is the reason he wont publish any proof. This situation makes it so that his downside is protected very well. The suckers in his room are another story…. Remember, it’s all their fault (and really it is)…
I wonder if any of the IU leaders is without criminal background.
Didn’t you go to jail for running a Ponzi scheme you crook.
I was one of the worst of my generation. The things I did were unconscionable, reprehensible, absolutely horrible. I destroyed the finances of thousands of honest people. And I got exactly what was coming to me. Perhaps the writing of this blog is a way for me reconcile with my past. When I look back on that era of my life, I ask myself, where was my soul? Where was my humanity? How did I go so far astray? It sickens me.
When I look at the vast majority of these trading vendors, I see my old self glaring back at me. I hate it. All of the deception and lies just sitting on a web page, lying in wait to destroy the finances of another innocent person.
Before you buy into any of these scams, typical including, free videos, show off, then think this. What do most people do? What is my knowledge in this field? How easy could i be tricked to buy into an idea? Know your vulnerbilities! Stop lying to yourself
Ask your self who in this day and age of technology where we have live video and voice feed would type in the chatroom and not use live voice chat to explain exactly what is he planing to do with stock before he does it!!! ? And why does he not have his entry and exits posted on screen all the time so we can clearly see when he is going in and out of the trade in real time!!! All this can be implemented in chatroom but is not ,ask your self why ???
Thank you Emmet to point to this nonsense that is going on with IU.
by the way i was subscriber at IU also and i can confirm that there are no trade alerts at all (meaning exact entry, exact posision size and exact sl). just long XZY and at the end of the day(or sooner after trade) he will tell you that he was scalping it, sizing in and out, short and long, taking some off into washes and with this “alerting” he can make himself profitable with every trade… I dont follow trades of others but he should start alerting a little bit more transparent, because this looks shady as ****. He can be profitable trader but that alerting… lol also there is group of moderators and their friends who are talking ideas privately and then boasting on twitter with huge gains, dont get me wrong im happy for them, but you can feel in that chatroom some people are superior than others and well for 197$ a month you wont between them. For that 197$/month youll get shady alerting and watchlist which every newbie loves so much and “it totally changed their trading career” and i dont know what else but lets be honest its just few 5% gain on the day tickers from finviz with coment like “if para then short, if weak open then rg break long” + that shady alerting is not worth that $ he wants a month. I would say this chatroom is the most overhyped chatroom on the internet. I was dissapointed because im momo trader, 5 years experience and i was looking for some chatroom but reading all day AAPL nhod, AMBA near lod, alerts of wannabies who dont know what theyre doing, weird late alerting of Nate of others, unnecessery comments on tickers its just not worth. This chatroom should be for free imo. Chatroom of this price should be about idea generation before the trade actually happen or setups which i can participate after “alerting” (if i like that setups and i trade it also…)
I checked investimonials and i would love to see trackrecords of these “it totally changed their trading career after joining and watching dvds” traders. lol 95% traders fail but it looks like on investimonials there is every other member a millionaire. I watched the DVDs and you can find that info for free on the internet… some technical analysis and basic momo setups which everybody trades. Im sorry but its all so overhyped. I would be very sceptic when reading these review because theyre written by newbies and you can impress a newbie trader with showing him round numbers and support and resistance and he will be talking all day like it change his view on trading and he is about to make a bank. lol
Nathan is a turd.
Michele: have heard some nice things. But in all honestly, I dont know if she even trades. No track record. But no complaints either.
Eric Wood: not a bad guy. He trades. And he speaks his mind, for better or worse. He is probably the one guy over there that will tell about his real trading.
So there is not clear cut signals for Nathan’s trades going out? Seriously?
he’s not clearly communicating his trade plan prior to actual trading and his entries/exits as the trades progress?
Nope. Nothing.
Maybe if enough people complain, then we can convince his royal highness to be more transparent.
what about superman? it’s the same ‘conglomerate’
My hats off to Elkwood, who is one of the mods at Investors Underground. He is the only one of those turds with the guts to actually pick up the phone and call me directly. Him and I have had some spirited conversations and both of us have gotten loud and said some things we both regret.
Was certainly nice that he called me today.
I signed up for bullsonwallstreets free trial and have been pleasantly surprised so far. Might be a nice review for you.
Been meaning to get a review done on BullsOnWallStreet. Have not heard anything bad.
Yeah you should review bullsonwallstreet and also check their clique fund. It will be probably one of these more positive reviews. Haim Bodek is doing stuff for clique and that guy hft genius and pretty transparent so i guess its far from being scam. He wouldnt risk ruining his reputation with some scammers…
Emmet, hats off! Keep posting man, love it ❤️