TopStepTrader
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Honesty
(5)
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Quality
(5)
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Cost
(4)
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Support
(5)
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Verified Trades
(5)
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User Experience
(5)
Summary
TopStepTrader is a legitimate trading opportunity. The company allowed me to verify every aspect of the business; they do, in fact provide a huge amount of funding to aspiring traders. The trading combine is not easy to pass, but those that pass become elite in their field. This company is growing fast and adding an average of one new funded trader, that I was able to verify, each trading day. I would consider this company to be global game changer on how the opportunities of capitalism are distributed. These are very serious people, offering a very serious opportunity to anyone willing to work hard and play by the rules. 100% legitimate.
User Review
( votes)Today’s Review is TopStepTrader
Thanks for reading this review, and I want to be totally upfront with my audience, TopStepTrader contacted me three months ago and requested that I review their trading product, in addition to writing my review, they also inquired about advertising on TradingSchools.Org. I agreed, but only after I had thoroughly investigated and vetted the opportunity. The following review was written over a several day span, however it took me nearly two months of researching every detail of the company.
To date, this will be only the second private party that I have allowed to advertise on my site. The first would be Google, and you can see those Google ads interspersed throughout the site. I have no control over the Google ads. The second advertiser will now be TopStepTrader. How much am I being paid? To be completely honest, I am not sure. I never even bothered to ask. The profit motive for TradingSchools.Org has always been my secondary motive. My primary concern has always been to not allow my reviews to be contaminated, polluted, or in any way influenced by a commercial advertising agreement. Some readers certainly do have the right to feel cynical about this review, however, I would hope that readers judge this company on the evidence that I was able to collect.
Protecting the relationship with my readers has always been the top priority. Sometimes I give a positive review and I get duped, or the vendor’s performance takes a dump, as always I apologize for leading any readers to losses. Many have. Conversely, sometimes I write bad reviews about vendors, and I later learn that the vendor is actually a decent person offering a decent product. I always attempt to clean that up, apologize, and give credit where credit is due. Lets jump into the review.
TopStepTrader Complete Transparency and Open Access
Several months ago, when TopStepTrader contacted me and requested a review, I was very open and honest with them in explaining that this review could very well backfire on them. I told them flatly that the vast majority of my reviews are highly critical and sometimes downright vicious towards many in the trading community. For too many years, far to many charlatans have been roaming free on the internet, offering all sorts of trading products. The vast majority are complete and total scams. In the pre internet days, we had regulatory bodies such as the FTC, SEC, and CFTC that did a pretty good job of putting the scammers out of business relatively quickly. However, during the past 10 years it appears that they have pretty much quite the fight and decided that attempting to regulate the internet is an exercise in futility.
Lets not be too hard on the regulators. Just imagine for a moment how simple it is to whip up a website offering a world of trading riches and then have that website listed, for free and with zero credibility, as a Ninja Trader Official Educator. Or a webinar on Online Trader Central (cesspool of fraud) where a trading educator can instantaneously pitch the fraud to thousands of naive traders. Just image a government regulator, getting up in the morning and having to figure out how to catch a scammer using multiple fake names, multiple fake websites, using servers spread out over the globe. I write about these frauds daily, believe me when I tell you…some of these frauds are downright hard to pin down. What does this have to do with TopStepTrader?
Before agreeing to do the review with TopStepTrader, I told them upfront that I was highly suspicious of their model of allowing people to trade on a simulator for monthly fee, all in the shadowy hope that they could possible gain access to trading capital provided by the firm, at some later day. This type of model is quite literally a perfect storm for anyone looking to pull off a fraud. In fact, I had already sent TopStepTrader a list of a dozen other shady companies that had pulled their website down from the internet, after they found me snooping around and asking tough questions. All of these companies offering the same BS model of allowing a person to trade on a Ninja Trader simulator, with the implied hope of later gaining access to firm capital. You can read a couple of reviews of these scammers with this review and this review.
The bottom line…I wanted complete and total transparency from the company. No line of questioning was off the table. I wanted to see everything. Some things, such as account balances for the entire fund as well as figures such as profitability were available, but I agreed not to publish. To my surprise, TopStepTrader decided to simply give me whatever I wanted, nothing was off the table.
The attitude of TopStepTrader is that they wanted me to write the most highly credible, thorough and honest review as possible, and that they wanted the review to be used as a juxtaposition against the various other companies now attempting to copy their business model. The biggest problem that TopStepTrader is now having are the fly by night copycat websites popping up overnight, with highly credible looking websites, but are nothing more than a front to execute a fraud of collecting monthly fee’s and never actually providing any company funds to traders seeking genuine opportunity. They are concerned that this influx of fraud is going to tarnish the overall business model. I agreed to write the review only if I was given complete and total access, which they did.
TopStepTrader
Some readers might have read to this point and might be confused as to what exactly is TopStepTrader. In a nutshell, TopStepTrader is at its heart and core…an investment fund named Patek Partners. The investment fund is like any other investment fund, in that they want to earn as much profit as possible for the investors. Typically, investment funds usually have a manager, or group of managers that decide what to invest in. However, the owner and founding partner of Patak Partners and TopStepTrader wanted to try something different. The returns from the investment fund are generated by actual traders that have passed the TopStepTrader trading combine. This is crowd sourcing on steroids.
Mike Patak, the company founder and owner had been a long time trader at the Chicago Board of Trade and the Chicago Mercantile Exchange, and he wanted to design TopStepTrader to function comparatively to how many private traders gained funding at the Chicago Mercantile Exchange or the Chicago Board Of Trade. The old school method, was for the aspiring trader to arrive at the exchanges in Chicago with only a small stake of trading capital, and then attempt to trade that small stake into a track record of successes that others could see. Once the track record of success was established, there was an unofficial and unorthodox system that traders would navigate in order to gain access to additional capital from other traders, or investors. Much of the business of funding independent traders was a very informal process of people meeting each other and sharing trading records of success or failure.
For many years, this was the primary way that many traders got their start in the business of professional futures speculation. However, as the business shifted away from the pits and onto electronic exchanges, the old order was broken. The relevant players could no longer be found in the trading pits, or in the hallways, upstairs offices, the pass through’s of the exchanges, or in the local restaurants and the local watering holes in which the major players would haunt and conduct informal business arrangements. There was no longer any reason to live in Chicago, with the miserable winters. The business of trading futures then began to decentralize and disperse and reemerge in places with better weather, places like California and Florida. And the backgrounds of the people entering the business for the first time also went through a drastic change. The businesses specializing in speculating on electronic exchanges now wanted people with specific skill sets, like PhD’s in computer science, scientists in math and physics, theoretical statisticians, etc.
The era of the trading pits ended in the 2000’s. In retrospect, and with a little bit of time and reflection, we can now see things much clearer. We can now see who gained the most and lost the most in terms of economic impact. By and large, the biggest losers were the small speculators, the small guy that came to Chicago with nothing more than a dream in his heart to become a millionaire. Through cunning, risk, and effort, to carve out his own piece of the purest form of American capitalism. The trading pits, where millionaires were printed daily. Where money sloshed about in a sea of speculation, fear and greed, desperation and inspiration. A place where the little guy, if he were lucky, tough and smart, could position himself into that massive flow of money…and hopefully emerge a millionaire. Of course, the odds have always been thin and very few actually realized this dream, but the dream was attainable.
Enter TopStepTrader
In speaking with Mike Patak, and reading everything that I could find on him, I began to realize his dream. Mike used to be one of those desperate, hungry, risk taking characters you would see in the trading pits, wildly gesticulating his arms in hopes of scraping out of living. He used to be one of those guys that needed to access capital, he understands the frustration of having to prove ones-self and also having to market himself to prospective financial backers. He first hand watched as the liquidity began to dry up and the trading floors began to decay and die. He felt what it was like to lose his financial backers, and watch his business of being a pit trader simply die away.
Mike had a crazy dream. Back in 2010, he was one of the first to come up with the zany idea of allowing anyone with an internet connection, located anywhere in the world to experience electronic trading with a bonafide offer for funding. His attitude was, if they can get on the internet and show me profit on a simulator, then I will provide the funding. He could care less if the person was young or old, smart or stupid, educated or uneducated, the only thing that mattered was whether the person could get onto a computer and prove themselves successful. He had no mentorships to sell, no indicator packages, no live trading room, no education of any sort was required…he wasn’t interested in any of that crap, he only wanted people that had the sheer will, audacity, personal motivation and grit to get onto the trading screen and show him success. He didn’t even care if that person spoke a word of English because money has no official language. He just wanted those with pure grit, the type of person that made it in the trading pits.
The Prototype
When Mike Patak started the company in 2009, at that point in his trading career, he had already spent 10 years trading in the pits. All of those years of trading afforded him a model of what a truly successful trader looked like. What were the characteristics, how much profit did they average each day, what types of draw downs did the best traders in the pits usually encounter? In short, Mike Patak knows exactly what success looks like. He has seen thousands of people come and go, the ones that stick around all seemed to exhibit comparative performance characteristics. Why is this important?
This is important because the very model of the TopStepTrader combine was created to produce traders that exhibited the exact qualities needed to insure long time success. When a person passes the combine, he would be considered one of the elite. One of the guys that made the markets pay them, consistently, year after year.
Yes, the combine is difficult to pass. But once a trader has been broken into the mold, then Patak Partners knows that they have a person that is going to succeed over the long haul, and the investment fund that backs the trader will continue to grow and prosper.
The Rate Of Success – 18.79%
I am sure that everyone is extremely curious about the rate of success. What is the percentage of people that enter the trading combine, and then exit the combine by meeting the minimum performance numbers? How many people, in total have shown the right stuff and gotten through the combine and been awarded the trading capital from Patak Partners? The magic number, which I was able to verify is 18.79%. For every 100 people that enter the combine, roughly 19 people on average make it.
The average velocity of funded traders is currently one new funded trader each day. For the first half 2015, there have been 161 funded traders added to existing roster of traders from prior years. How much funding does each combine graduate receive to trade? This depends on the level of the combine that the trader passed. From the numbers that were presented to me, the distribution was all over the place. In my opinion, the distribution of amounts that have been awarded are not nearly as important as being able to verify that TopStepTrader does in fact award traders and keep their promises. From everything that I witnessed, in most cases they even gave many marginal traders a pass and allowed them access to firm capital.
The Rate Of Failure – 50%
After a person has passed the combine and been awarded firm capital, how many people failed with real money accounts? About 50%. This means that at some point, TopStepTrader had to pull the plug and stop the bleeding. What happens to these traders? The firm then places the trader back into the combine, trading on a simulator. Once the trader gets back on track, then they flip on the switch and the trades are immediately executed live.
In speaking with TopStepTrader, they have a very optimistic view of people that have to revisit the combine. Their attitude is that the funded traders are like professional athletes that need to be constantly improving and a sit in the penalty box of the combine allows the trader to reassess what they are doing wrong. There are a multitude of reasons why traders screw up, from speaking with many of the funded traders that had multiple trips back to the combine, the number one reason was allowing losing trades to run against them, not willing to take losses. Another common reason is that many ventured into markets where they had no experience. They went looking for action.
Once such trader that I spoke with had passed the combine trading the ES futures. For approximately 6 months he continued trading his live account on ES futures. His profits were steady, but not spectacular. And then he went looking for volatility, he found the crude oil market, with its wild daily swings. He thought that he could take the same proven money making patterns in the ES and apply them to crude oil. Everything was going fine until he discovered something called an inventory report. Trading into an inventory report for crude oil is like attempting to jump a motorcycle across two tall buildings, and in between these buildings is a gigantic swimming pool filled with rattle snakes. This trader found out in one afternoon what it means to have his lunch eaten and then be stuffed into a garbage can by the local bully. The experience taught him something, stick with what you know, wait for opportunities and only take what the market is willing to give. Long story short, in spite of his multiple failures, he has been failure free for the past 8 months. Month after month, pulling out profits.
Speaking With Combine Graduates
One of the great things about TopStepTrader giving me free and open access to everything, was being able to interact and speak with funded traders from all over the globe. It really gave me a different perspective on how we define success. We typically like to define trading success as plus or minus a certain amount of money. But for some of these graduates, getting this chance to become a full time trader was truly an unattainable dream.
One guy I spoke with had spent nearly his entire life living in a small town with very limited economic opportunities. He is married and has four kids to feed. His day job is changing tires on industrial vehicles. Every single penny that he earns on his day job goes towards feeding those kids. There was simply no way that he would of been able to raise thousands of dollars to try his hand at futures speculation. However, he never gave up hope. He read every single book on technical analysis that he could get his hands on. He even self taught himself statistics and learned to program basic strategies. He poured his life into learning the markets, but he had no money to trade. After he found TopStepTrader, he took a chance and maxed out his credit cards for the chance at the combine. Finally, after three months of failure, he managed to pass and became a funded trader. When he explained to me how he felt about passing and becoming a funded trader, it literally brought tears to my eyes. Here was a guy stuck in a small town, middle aged and going nowhere. But this stupid combine had literally changed his life. How has it changed his life? Well, his goals are actually pretty modest. While you and I are probably thinking about a new Ferrari and living in Hawaii, this guy just wanted to be able to earn enough money so that he could keep the air conditioner on ALL summer. And he wanted the extra money so that his daughters would no longer have to share clothing. He wanted to feed them better food. I was amazed at what he was telling me. What is even crazier is that every morning before he heads off to his day job, he first stops at the local library which has the fastest internet in town and with his cheap laptop computer, he gets onto that trading screen and attempts to grind out profits. On one day in particular, the library was closed, and so he sat out in the parking lot of the library with his laptop. He managed to earn $300 in an hour. Which is twice what he earns in a single day, working labor, full time. Very inspiring what even the most modest person can achieve when opportunity meets preparation.
I have nine other interviews. Other graduates that have just as inspiring stories. Stuff that tugs at your heart and makes you really question how we define success. I could write another 10,000 words about these guys gals, all inspiring. But this review is already going way too long and I am starting to ramble.
At least once a month, I am going to be writing a profile on the funded traders at TopStepTrader. Amazing stuff folks. Some of these guys stories are simply amazing stories to tell. I even have one interview with a guy that has made it big time. Big, big money that most of us only dream about. Another about a young lady from the most unlikeliest of locales.
Wrapping Things Up
There is so much more to tell about this company. I did a horrible job with this review. I am sure, that at some point in the near future, someone is going to write a book or shoot a film about this company. There is so much there, there. Its an amazing story about a company that has literally scooped up the ashes of the now shuddered trading pits on LaSalle Street in Chicago and figured out a way to make something useful and vibrant. Mike Patak figured out a way to take the very essence of what trading opportunity meant to so many, on a local level, and then introduced it to the world.
Its pretty obvious that I am upbeat about this company. This is a high quality prop firm, offering real opportunity.
One Final Note
I wanted to address an urban legend regarding the success and failure rates of retail traders. One of my readers spent over 20 years at Man Financial, which at one time was the largest retail commodity and futures brokerage in the world. His specific job was to manage the day to day activities of over 2000 registered representatives. Specifically, he had access to thousands upon thousands of retail futures trading accounts. At a moments notice, he could pull up a spreadsheet and tell you how many retail accounts were profitable and how many where not profitable. According to him, the urban legend that only 5% of retail trading accounts are consistently profitable is grossly over exaggerated. In his experience, the consistent money was made by less than 1% of all accounts. The single largest determiner of trading success? If the retail account was being managed by someone that had also worked in the trading pits. This was the single greatest clue to success or failure, if the person had real world experience in negotiating the trading pits.
With this in mind, consider the difficulty of passing the TopStepTrading program. The program was designed from the ground up, to emulate the successful pit trader. Some may say that the passing rate of only 18.79% proves that this is not a good opportunity, but I would counter by saying that new traders that are forced to conform to the rules set within the combine far outperform the average retail trader. These rules are meant to shape, meant to mold the trader into what has been proven to work.
Thank for reading and don’t forget to leave your comments below.
is 6% per month achievable and sustainable ?
Yes, but you will need to accept 30% monthly drawdowns, which is very stressful.
Longer-term investing is much, much easier and less stressful. But only expect 2% monthly.
Why pay a monthly fee to trade someone else’s money (if you are one of the lucky one that is). Save the money, educate yourself, prove to yourself that you can make money in simulation,; when you are ready trade your own money, chip away at the market everyday, be consistant, be discipline, trade your plan and plan your trade; and hopefully watch your account grow. Don’t pay to trade in simulation; simulation in free. pay to educate yourself. Meet traders, read, join a trading meet up… DON’T PAY TO TRADE IN SIMULATION WITH THE HOPE OF GETTING FUNDED, EVER…..
I’ve been trading the combine/FTP with Top Step Trader for years. I have discovered it is effectively impossible to become a funded trader with them.
They have a huge and elaborate rule system, which has become more and more complex since I have been with them.
They regularly change those rules, so you can find your self (for example), almost reaching their target, only for that target to be increased, or the number of lots you can trade reduced.
The company makes money only when you DO NOT get funded. So they do everything they can to ensure you never get funded.
If you did get funded, by some miracle, their rule system is so complex that you will find yourself breaking one of the rules, and all the way back in the combine again.
It would be cheaper to trade your own capital and use a simulator. Top Step is a barrier to trader development IMHO
So they paid you for this five star review by advertising deal?
Thanks for the info especially about the criteria for passing the combine. Without this I would not be giving it a try.
Marla,
You might want to read the updated TST review
https://www.tradingschools.org/reviews/top-step-trader-survey-part/
Hey guys!
I got funded with the help of OneUp Trader!! While I was funded I didn’t pay anything out of pocket and I also broke a rule which they give a warning, 2 strike rule. I was up around $500 before I violated another rule (traded CL at 9:30 CT Wednesday). I got paid a portion of the $500 and now I’m using that money to sign up again via OneUp Trader. Also there’s no data fees, their Funding partners cover it. Amazing doesn’t quite say it!!
Good bye TST, never again not for me.
This is a FEE based internet FUTURES trading contest kind of scam which assures to open a LIVE funded account if you make a specified amount of money trading on a Simulated Trading account. Its called COMBINE.
Most are scammed in a never ending LOOP. Even if they manage to pass the test they soon end up doing the COMBINE again in few days or weeks as the room to trade is very tight and impossible for most dreamers if they trigger some losses in their accounts.
Also the tax rate for FUTURES traders is 23%, but they send a 1099 which hikes the tax to nearly 38% + their 20% cut which comes to total 58%……. who would be so dumb not to know the diff between 58 and 23 ?
Rampant False advertisement wherein they show new traders Funded every month but they are not.
They are the old Funded traders who constantly go back to Combine pay fees again and go LIVE for few more days or weeks and then back again to the paid Combine. That is the design of TST. It’s a scam
TIMELINE of the tricks they played with me ….beamerUSA
NOV 4th COMBINE started 100K
+1354.13
NOV 6th COMBINE deleted
Say a Complimentary Combine has been given
Which is of 50K……and say cannot credit the already gained +1,354.13
With lot of hassle KEVIN puts back my old COMBINE +1K back
I instructed KEVIN to merge the accts as it is difficult switching accts.
And I never wanted the free complimentary COMBINE as I was already up +1,354.13
KEVIN sends email that he has merged the accts……LIAR
He never did what he said in emails…
Traders got to pursue emails or concentrate on trading?
Then I make +6000 reaching the target for a LIVE FUNDED ACCT in under 10 days.
Then suddenly on Friday NOV 18th the ACCT is DELETED
When asked why they say the acct was not paid for…..
Whereas no COMBINE starts without being PAID for by CC
Then they ask to send the proof of payment.
I sent it …..
Monday they say they have refunded my fees and I am banned from the Program
ERIN says Your actions this morning on Squawk Radio Chat and through email have forced us to enforce this ban from doing business with TopstepTrader.
I have not logged in the useless Squawk Radio since a MONTH…. ! Liars
This implies that she had some instructions from the Squwk operator but he nor she knows that there will be no IP proof that I logged and will have no comments to show from me. Erin made that comment in haste without knowing that everything can be tracked in this digital age…..LIAR
This whole situation I suspect was initiated by the Squawk Radio operator and ERIN where I had suggested to talk about Critical EIA reports and FOMC meeting which is only for couple of minutes in week. The operator cracks jokes and talk immaterial things when in those few minutes the Market moves hundreds of POINTS.
Traders are in Jeopardy if they don’t know what is going on in those few minutes. And he did not like my suggestions as he has to work diff for those few minutes and keep track of the announcements.
Rampant False advertisement wherein they show new traders Funded every month but they are not.
They are the old Funded traders who constantly go back to Combine pay fees again and go LIVE for few more days or weeks and then back again to the paid Combine. That is the design of TST. It’s a scamI was not going to go into that cycle as my results of wins were very high and I would stay there and I wouldn’t be a Cash Cow for them.
Also the tax rate for FUTURES traders is 23%, but they send a 1099 which hikes the tax to nearly 38% + their 20% cut which comes to total 58%……. who would be so dumb not to know the diff between 58 and 23 ? Not me and I was vocal about it in the chat room….this is another reason for them to Breach my Contract.
By the way I have also WON a third Prize @ TST in a CONTEST against hundreds of traders trading FUTURES.
Every move is documented in chains of emails.
BREACH of CONTRACT by TopStepTrader.com
It’s “ensure” not “insure” as used above.
Anyway, I looked into TST. Here’s where things net out:
If you’re good or lucky enough to pass the combine, your probabilities of success drop once you pass. There are a variety of reasons for this, but mostly it’s due to the constraints of money management. The reason your probabilities decrease is that once you go live, the risk is no longer on paper and no longer only on your side. Therefore, to control the risk, TST limits the downside further, and your operating room as a trader is reduced.
Trading is hard enough. IMHO, TST is a pitch that preys on most traders’ frustrations with lack of funding. It’s a psychological appeal.
TST is a quizzical in many ways. In some ways, it’s amazing that it’s legal (if it is). I’d love to see how the books are organized in this kind of business.
Now if you’re a trader looking at TST with an eye to join, as yourself this: you think you have some edge on the market. You think you can retain that edge by giving it to someone else.
Here’s your hint: YOU CAN’T.
Scam? Maybe, maybe not. Loser’s game? Nearly certainly.
It seems the shady russian prop firm company proptraders.biz have finally closed down. The website is no longer operational and everybody has received an email (in russian) saying that they cannot continue their operation due to costs. I do not understand russian and I could only use google translate to make sense of the email.
In any case, say what you want about topsteptrader. At least you get funded IF you manage to pass the hamster wheel.
Let me get this straight.
You wonder why a Russian (lol) prop trading company disappears into the night, but you also think “all I gotta do is pass this test”.
One of you born a minute.
Top Step Trader is a complete scam.
i live in Chicago and they prey on the sales of the poor without providing any help after the fact. i spent thousands of dollars and they did not help me when i lost my account. Sorry it happens was what the coach said. thanks for this review which was not honest at all
Hi Joe,
I wrote an update on Top Step that talks a great deal more about what you experienced. Please read the update. Thanks for commenting. I am here to express your frustration to a larger audience.
Hope to read more of your comments and opinions in the future. Thank you.
Emmett
Emmett Moore,
In your Pros . you mentioned, “High Success Rate ” Do have any stats to prove your statement ? It has been almost year and you haven’t changed even ratings or mentioned on top “caution” .. How much you get paid for indirect promotion of this snake oil hiding all warnings … or to post only in comments pretending you are honest .. May GoD Bless all these Vendor including You !
Great read and thank you for the information on TST. Was wondering what happens to those folks who pass the combine and enter the Funded Trader Prep, however are kicked back to the combine. Would you happen to know if these individuals pay for a combine after the FTP?
Great Review. I found Top Step Trader by chance, poking around the internet. I am lucky not to run into one of their dishonest competitors.
Emmett,
Thank you for your sincere take on TST and the like…. My question to you is what do you think of them now and other competitors? Are they legit and worth a try under the rules and conditions for funding and making it as a trader that they now have in place or no? And, who, in your view, may be worth giving a shot to – as you did say many new entrees to this arena….
Thanks
Did you find this review helpful? Yes No
Another issue you would run into are costs. You would be paying professional exchange data fees (as opposed to retail) and the RT costs do not appear to have any flexibility (most popular brokers will rebate for extra round turns and you can even negotiate lowered fees with some). On top of that you have platform rental or purchase.
So lets say you wanted to the eminis, commodities, bonds and maybe the Russell. Take a look at the monthly costs reported on the site, viz
CME products $85.00
CBOT products $85.00
NYMEX products $85.00
COMEX products $85.00
ICE products $110.00 (effective 04/01/16)
For example:
A trader trading one product on the CME (i.e. E-mini S&P) would be fee liable for $85 per month. Multiple products on one exchange do not increase the fee.
•Add Crude Oil (a NYMEX product) and you would be responsible for $170 ($85 x 2) per month.
•Add Gold (a COMEX product) and you are responsible for $255 ($85 x 3) per month.
•Add another product like Soybeans (a CBOT product) and your responsibility increases to $340 ($85 x 4) per month.
I’ve not done the maths but I guess you would need to clear at least $500 of gross profit to cover platform and exchange fees assuming you trade on more than just one exchange. I know some only trade say the ESN or the ZB but that can open you up to having no opportunities on any given day and that might have you taking dumb trades to meet the criteria to keep your account.
This is a great point. Nobody ever talks about these fee’s. This is not the fault of TopStep, but the exchanges are fucking idiots.
http://fio.enterthemeeting.com/m/BKTZHNHU
webinar with Top Step trader organised by Big Mike ( futures.io)
come and ask questions
Love Big Mike / site.
This is from indeed.com a job posting website. They have had 30,000 users who tried combine. and 370 funded traders . so the failure rate is 99%
“TopstepTrader is a young, innovative early-stage B2C company that provides people from around the world the opportunity to earn trading capital. We offer our users an evaluation of their trading performance in a real-time, simulated account. With over 30,000 users derived from organic growth, we aren’t slowing down anytime soon”
http://www.indeed.com/cmp/TopstepTrader/jobs/Business-Development-Associate-e6042febe313cc44?sjdu=QwrRXKrqZ3CNX5W-O9jEvYFcACbv-DthnUj_IRiMl_jTx75VEjjLGPVEpktzMVk_Bwcin57OVxLdDe-M_lBhIox4dfnFjkCBCsHtqieKOV4
Hi David.. Thanks for sharing this. How did you come up with the number of 370 funded traders? I think that they’ve funding almost one a day last year. The big question however is finding out how long the funded traders stay funded before they go back to the combine?
Great article and great comments, thank you. I am funded at Apiary fund and really like futures too. I wanted to try top step but blech, will use my own capital for now.
Interesting stuff here..
And yes, much to be learned about accepting much needed capital from firms that will be discussed on your site.
Perhaps reach out to Ameritrade or bigger firms that might not mind complaints.
Awesome review. I am a full time Head Chef with a desire to change my quality of life and Day Trade for a living. I have managed in my little free time to learn to trade and begin my path to financial freedom. I am a funded TopstepTrader and I want to help others like me learn to trade and win a funded account. Please visit my blog to learn more. http://www.stocksforexfutures.com
“William”…. you sound like a scammer, and your website looks like a flippa site.. please be more creative in your frauding.. take pride… if this blog has tought you anything, it should be that you should be take pride in what you do
Hi Ben,
I am certainly not a scammer. I have nothing to scam about, I have nothing to sell. Please reconsider your slander as you only glanced at the front page and viewed no content. I’m not sure what a flippa website is but I don’t consider my free wordpress theme as something to brag about. Please glance at some blog content and get back to me. I appreciate your feedback. I hope your day goes better.
Has anybody had experience with MSEcapitalgroup.com?
I did a trial with them. Although I did not pass, they seemed above board. Your trial is using a Rithmic data feed through VankarTrading in Chicago. Of course, the only con I have is I have to wait 3 months before I can trial again, but at least it’s free with what seems to be no strings attached.
Nice post.
Man..that seems like harsh treatment.
Where is the support for upcoming traders ? I understand that traders fail, but if you get some which have proven profitable over a period of time. Surely the smart play is to encourage them and bring them along as obviously there is some ability there.
Then in the long run, he/she will make profits for the company who took the risk initially to take them on.
Marcelo, thanks.. i suspected the 10 day rule for a while, but you confirmed it for me.
Amarjit, I guess they can’t keep good traders.. there’s a lot issues trading with STS:
Tax, better to trade your own acc with better tax advantages.
TST exchange charges.
TST has a very limited of trade-able products
And that weekly drawdown rule makes no sense.
I can see why TST would want to keep their “customers” on the combine treadmill.
I’ve read few of the comments here and there seems to be a pattern about what most serious traders feel about TST.
I went through the combine process and it took me about 7 months to get funded. I passed the combine twice and spent at least 5 months worth in combine fees until I got funded. Once I got funded I thought I would be fine.
Here is what I discovered, and it seems to be in line with the opinion of the majority of the traders here.
After I got funded I started trading my strategy, as I did in the combine, and started with a small loss for the first 2 days. Then my third day was a breakeven day and my forth day I managed to bring the account back to the starting balance ($0.00). So, by this time I had already lost 4 days out of those 10 I had to build some positive equity in the account. Then the market started to get a bit slow and I got another couple of breakeven days, lowering my chances of producing any significant profits by the 10th day. On my last couple of days I thought I would risk a bit more and increase size because that would be the only way (if I was very lucky) to keep funded after the 10th day. Needless to say I lost it. I nearly hit the daily loss limit and my account was negative $700,00 overall. In the combine I managed to overcome even bigger drawdowns but in FTP or after you get funded, you don’t have such a luxury of having a drawdown.
Now, if we analyze it closely we can reach the conclusion that TST is playing with probabilities and have their own edge. If you take any successful trader’s track record for a whole year and divide it by 10day blocks, you are going to see that lots of those blocks will have a negative P&L. In the short term the outcome is completely random but, yet, in the long run the trader still can be very profitable. The 10day rule just increases the chance of failure, as it adds more stress and makes you do things you wouldn’t otherwise do. You get hesitant in the beginning and tend to increase risk at the end. Another thing is the 45% winning rule. In 10 days you simply cannot have 45% winning days. You whether have 40% or 50%. There is no inbetween. So you need to be positive at least half of the time to succeed. Just another detail of their “makeup” to make it look better and attract more clients.
It means that many times you get funded you will lose it and will have to start all over again until you get one of those massive winning streaks. How often does that happen? An experienced trader knows. A newbie doesn’t. Its just how probability works. New traders think it is all about skills. Skills surely help but there is only so much a trader can control. And TST preys on that dynamic.
So, TST business model is to take advantage of this outcome randomness and keep charging for combine fees. You see, they are the Casino and you the gambler. The reason they allow you to withdraw 100% of your first $5000 (if you ever make it) is because you will have more cash later to keep buying more combines. And Mr Patak proved that they are not really interested in having successful traders onboard when he told me I should signup for another combine after closing my funded account. Then I asked him if he would give the first month of another continuous combine for free, (fair enough after so much time and effort to get funded and showing that I was absolutely capable of succeeding and make up for the loss) and he never got back to me.
So, I guess this shows what TST is really all about and if you think you are a lucky person then go for it. You might as well buy a lottery ticket. But if you think you can trade and have skills and consistency, I wouldn’t touch it.
And if you decide to do it, just be mindful about your self awareness and your ability to trade. Keep a good perspective of the reality. They will make you think that you are a failed trader if you don’t pass the Funded Trader Prep or the Funded Account, while its just purely a matter of luck in such a short period of time. Patak told me I needed more “screen time” before I could produce a positive outcome in 10 days. Thats laughable and sad at the same time. Good that Im very confident about my trading.
This is just an honest review from someone who was excited at first with TST, but the reality has sunk in.
Thank you Marcelo for informing us.
I agree with what you wrote.It looks good before you understand the details and it takes time to get there and for that you probably have to pay for combines until you realize what they are asking you to do.You have to be a super-trader and also have luck.All profitable traders have longer loosing streaks something that TST does not allow,so staying funded,even if you get there,I’m sure it’s very rare.
I’m in my 3rd combine and my conclusion is at this moment that it is almost impossible to be successful with TST.Sure we can sa in general that everything is possible but in this case I think it’s very very improbable to make money with them.
As much as I hoped that this is finally a company that wants to help the small trader it looks more and more like a scam.
The 10 day rule was the main reason I never started a combine. We can control risk, but never dictate when the market is going to pay out. Fortunately they have done away with this limitation. The fact that they are willing to make changes based on customer feedback is encouraging
Would be great for a few funded traders to post comments about their experience.
And I dont mean people who went through the meat grinder 5-6 times, getting funded , losing it, getting funded again.
People who got funded and stayed funded for 1 year or more, where are you?
We want your comments.
TST has to have hard stats internally or else the business model would not work in the first place.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=HQeDy6mZEg4#t=963
From the traders mouth.
The truth is coming out!
This is not a secret. Even the interviewee said it’s on the TST website if you just look. He is saying that the rules for the funded account are different than the rules for the combine. Actually, the funded account has a weekly loss limit, but there is no weekly loss limit in the combine. So he is saying that the combine should have a weekly loss limit also. Not a big deal.
Yip, der’ it is!
https://www.topsteptrader.com/learnmore#learnmore-combine-signup
Step #2
50+k have a weekly limit of the daily limit 😀 😀 😀
No big deal 😀 😀 😀
https://topsteptrader.desk.com/customer/en/portal/articles/1950862-funded-trader-scaling-plan
And you don’t start with the combine max size on a funded account
😀 😀 😀
Sound like they’re doing some combine balancing to me…
They treat the trading rules like a video game with weapon balancing?? 😀 😀
So stupid it’s laughable, the only reason why they would do this is to get more failed combines and failed funded traders and thus the many losers covering few TST’s trader’s risk!
This is not a secret. Even the interviewee said it’s on the TST website if you just look. He is saying that the funded account has a weekly loss limit, but there is no weekly loss limit in the combine. Not a big deal.
I believe that the weekly loss limit is ONLY for the first ten days of the funded trader account..
Going to do a quick post on exactly how the funded trader program works. Its pretty gimmicky.
I am basically the central complaint depot for ALL complaints related to TopStep. They dont call TopStep to complain, they call and email me. Its been a real learning experience.
It would be useless for a recruit to complain to Topstep, I believe. At least you can be proud that you have brought to light some statistics that until now have been kept under wraps. Please revise your initial review of 4.8 if the many comments you have received have changed your mind. Readers have to scroll down to the comments section to get the true picture.
The people at Topstep seem very nice, but their whole business model seems to be based on the continued failure of those in a Combine or “live trader prep”. If they could prove that they are actually lowering the 97% to 99% failure rate (of traders who hope to make a living trading futures) then I for one would be impressed and not so skeptical. When asked what percent (or how many) of their funded traders have had success over time, they refuse to give a straight answer. Keep going on this, ok?
Overall TST tries, but its a hamster wheel .
Getting 50k to trade sounds nice, but if you have 1-2k, you can trade your own money and not bother.
Easier thing, copy their rules, use a SIM account , and try to follow them.
That costs you nothing, and will accomplish the same thing.
Everything TST does is about moving people into more Combines.
It’s rather sad.
I know several people who got multiple funded accounts, and ended getting pushed back into combines.
How I understand it, a funded account starts at Zero, and you have 10 days to be profitable or thats it. On the 11th day , if you down -0.01 or -1000, your done.
Back to the Combine you go.
If you up on the 11th day, you remain funded, but you better build a cushion real fast.
You go under that ZERO, and thats it its over.
Fee’s / Commission (to consider also):
1. $85/month per exchange for Data Feeds via Rithmic (so ES, CL, GC, ZS be $340/mo in fees to trade all four)
2. $5 round Trip per contract (Exactly the same offered to a normal retail person)
So there are alot of things to consider when attempting a funded account.
Emmett, It would be interesting to see the following stats on FUNDED Traders:
1. How many Combines did they take before ?
2. How many have stayed FUNDED for 1 year or more, continuously (no dropouts / re-enter)?
3. how many are employees / contributors / moderators / affiliates / professionals ?
I was going to give TST a go but I’ve delayed on that for now. Any similar companies for Forex out there? Blue-point Trading seems sincere but the process is too long and you have to pay for your losses (Wtf?). Also Apiary Fund is another one I’ve heard of. Any Reviews? Can’t wait to see competitors pop up. We underfunded traders need more options
Yes, underfunded traders need more options. And less gimmicks. I pulled the plug on TopStepTrader. As far as I can tell, not a single full time trader has come out of that program. And the complaints that I am getting is now bordering atrocious.
What do you mean by “Full time trader”? “Funded”? What are the complaints you are getting that are so atrocious?
the live acc is harder then a combine.. more tighter rules.. weekly drawdown limit is pretty low, not documented anywhere… that is unfair
I just found out infinity is doing something like a combine:
http://www.livetradingchallenge.com
But it’s closed now for nov 🙁
Emmett,
I’ve been looking all over the joint for reviews of TST so I’m very happy I was able to read your review and all the comments made by folks. I worked on the CBOT floor for a decade from the late 90’s until the late 2000’s. I’ve been lucky enough to have had a family connection to the pits since the 1950’s which I’m very proud of. in fact, Financial Place that runs north and south between Jackson and Van Buren bears an honorary street sign with the name of a relative of mine so Trading is a profession very near and dear to me. After leaving the pits In 2009, I was encouraged to get involved with a group that could provide education, provide additional funding apart from my own, and limit the amount of risk I personally could incur. I’m not ashamed of admitting it as a foolish mistake, but I’m human like everyone else and from my research and after talking with people still on the trading floor, I didn’t see a cause for concern. I digress… I ended up being swindled out of 4K myself and they ended up taking more than a million dollars off people from around the globe before the CFTC laid the hammer down and the goof that started the organization, Pro Trading Course, abruptly stopped appearing as a contributor on CNBC and other networks. I consider myself lucky frankly. Since then, I’ve traded on my own and been an independent analyst, both with success since that debacle. Prior to joining that group, a colleague recommended TST in 2009 but I decided to join PTC unfortunately. Topstep has always been on my radar though but I’ve been very, very skeptical of joining any group period. That said, it’s a very low cost as opposed to other groups out there promising the sky. The fact you were able to get the information you did from them and post it for people to see is a huge win. I agree with the comments that there really needs to be more information about the success stories from those that made it past the combine and beyond. Totally agree there should be a clear cut description of what a “Fully Funded Account” actually is. It is kind of bogus they use the lofty numbers they do to lure folks in that are new to Trading but that’s not a crime. I’ve had a profile with them since 2009 and the last few months, I would only log into the chat while I traded my other account as their Squawk Radio is free and I wanted to listen and decide if I should give it a shot. I will say the dialogue in the chat is sincere regarding what is preached. It’s all about preserving capital, developing a methodology, and taking profits. There are people that come on to promote products and give their opinions but to anyone that’s traded before, it’s really a bunch of noise. I couldn’t agree more there should be competition in this space for TST also so I’m keen to hear what you come across. I decided to give the combine a go myself just to try it. Worst case, if its as bleak as some make it sound here, I’ll bounce myself out of the continuous combine and go back to trading on my own. I think it’s overall a great idea if the goal is to promote trading futures and get people to be serious about trading and provide them exposure to markets for people interested but with little means an opportunity that wasn’t possible 10 years ago. Way too many scammers out there now so again, I couldn’t be more pleased to find your research and read the commentary here. Thanks again, Cheers
Thanks for the well thought comment. Regarding TopStep…some good, some bad. But we definitely need more competition.
The comments posted here are full of bias and anchoring on both sides. Lesson is don’t review paying advertisers. Also disappointing not mentioning if there are any regulations that TST has to adhere to.
Hey Nojob,
I totally get your comment, “dont review paying advertisers”. Unfortunately, the depth and level of research that goes into this blog requires a paid staff as well as third party software tools that are quite costly. I am forced into accepting advertisers. With every paid advertiser, I fully disclose the relationship, as well as the amount received.
Regarding TopStepTrader, you may have noticed that I have removed all advertising. Why? The number one reason is because over the past couple of months, I have basically been the central complaint department for this company. Anyone with a grip has called me, or emailed me with a litany of complaints. It has consumed a lot of my time and I am tired of defending the company. Nobody ever hears the complaints from people that drop out of the program, but I sure do.
Another issue, and one that I find particularly irritating is that TopStepTrader has given me zero compensation for all of my efforts. They do not value the relationship.
More competitors are coming online shortly. And not a day too soon.
Hi Emmett,
on 20 October 2015 you posted the information that the maximum one can receive is $1,500, no matter what combine one successfully completes.
I just spoke with TST and they say that is entirely false.
If one completes a $50,000 combine all the way through the process (combine, trader’s prep successfully completed), then one gets an account with $50,000 buying power. One still has to apply the sliding scale of a funded trader, which limits the trade size initially and grows it as one meets profit milestones in the account, which is only logical and a point of risk control.
But according to them your statement is in now way correct. I suggest you give TST a call and clarify this $1,500 max trading capital point, and re-post with the name of the person you spoke with at TST. If that particular individual says the $1,500 max is true, I want to call TST and speak with that particular person.
Its a little tricky, but let me explain, for the $50k account….
First you pass the combine.
After you pass the first combine, you must pass yet another combine, similar to the first combine. If you don’t pass, then you go back to first combine and start paying once again.
After you pass the second combine, you have a funded account that is good for 10 days. If you dont earn any money, then you are done and lose your funded account. If you lose $1k during any day, you are done and lose your funded account. If you lose $2k during any portion of the initial 10 days, then you are done and lose your funded account. A lot of ways to die.
Suppose that you got through the 10 days and have a profit of $100. At anytime going forward, if lose your $100 plus an additional $1000 during any day, or $2000 during any week, then you lose your funded account.
Hope this clarifies.
Bottom line, people seem to think that they are getting a $50k account, and that is false. They are getting a carnival token of an account to play with. I need to write about this.
Is is a good deal for the prospective trader? Its a shitty deal. I can spend everyday for the next year writing about how shitty this deal is. For every funded trader, I have 10 that have sent me an email complaining about it. Maybe their voices need to be heard?
Do I want TopStepTrader to succeed? Yes. But its mainly to see more competition enter the arena. And this is the fundamental problem with TopStepTrader, lack of competition in this space.
Hey Emmett,
Okay, at first I didn’t like TST, but after the first 5k is 100% for the trader, I changed my mind, that’s a great deal!
If you have done a combine, you would know you never get the full amount, instead you get a MAX lot size and a Daily loss limit.
The full amount, is no concern to the trader, it’s only the rules and the trades.
Honestly, they shouldn’t even advertise an account figure at all, because the dumb asses will expect an actual account of that size!
Anyway, the how the draw down works is clearly explained here in detail:
https://topsteptrader.desk.com/customer/portal/articles/1964617-important-lingo#Trailing%20Max%20Drawdown
Is it fair? Yes/No/Maybe.. but that’s not really the correct question.
Does it work? that’s a better question!
Does it favor the trader or TST, obviously it’s TST protecting themselves, but the trader should be aware of their doing at all times!
And what’s good for TST, is good for the trader, usually, right?
Yes, there is a lot of ways to die!
And yes, TST actually risk very little money on traders live accounts.
But it’s their money, their rules.
Trading is the hardest, easy money out there!
Anybody’s live account can be in profit one day, and gone the next, so risk management is the most important, and obviously their don’t trust anyone with their money, to slip up on an emotional ride and blow up into a wall.
Yes, the pros blow up too, they’re only human!
I don’t know if going backwards into a combine is paid for or free.
If you don’t respect their rules, then you don’t need funding from them.
I suggest you find out what the rules where and how they changed over time, TST listen and change them to find a balance.
Ben,
TopStepTrader, lets be honest…its a terrible deal. Since I have written my original review, I have had to deal with a non stop flood of people complaining about them. Pretty much everyday, someone is either calling me or emailing me. Its now to the point where I have to start writing about it and letting some of these folks make videos that can be published.
Thankfully, over the next few weeks and months some big players are moving into this space and will be competing head to head. Folks with big backing and verifiable funds to back traders. FINALLY.
Treating people very badly.
There is mention here that someone successfully finishing a combine, going through the add’l trader’s prep, and getting funded, might get funded with $1,500.
TST’s site says if you complete a $10,000 combine successfully and pass the trader’s prep, you get funded with $10,000. Same with the other combine levels up to $150,000.
Almost every day I am getting emails from TST of new traders getting funded at all levels. Their combines are attached to the emails, and those traders’ interviews can be live attended.
I don’t hear anyone anywhere complaining that they finished say a $30,000 combine and got funded with $1,500, or $5,000 or some lesser amount than their combine size.
So where is this information from that it is not so? Is this just some rumor by some pissed off trader who went through multiple TST combines and didn’t make it and now has a beef of his own doing? It sounds like that to me, but I’d honestly like to know.
In the coming weeks and months, I will be dedicating much more time to Top Step Trader. The good, the bad, and the ugly. Thus far, I only wrote about the good and mentioned nothing about the bad, and the ugly.
Nobody has really challenged TopStepTrader on a whole host of issues. Many people have gone through their program, at all levels and have much to say. I am going to start giving a voice to those people. And there are many with legit complaints. It has not been fair that I did not mention those people in my original review. Granted, I am a paid advertiser, and that has influenced my opinion. Which is wrong.
sold out !
might as well close your site now !
I will be posting an updated review on TopStep. Specifically breaking down the model and critiquing every aspect.
True, there are a lot of complaints about this company. I should know. I hear about it all the time. However, its a new concept and the goal has been to bring new light newer players that are legit competition. Thus far, finding bonafide competitors has been really tough.
I respect your opinion, and certainly understand how you would feel like I sold out.
“Sold out” may be too strong a description, but certainly it would appear that you were not quite as thorough as you usually are, and your analysis did not pursue the whole program.
You described the combine process very well. You just forgot to look at what REALLY happens after the combine is passed.
I still think that overall, you are doing a good job with your reviews, but this one certainly did mislead me for a while. Your honesty about your error just means that you recognize and acknowledge your own biases.
Emmett,
Thanks for this review — looks like it got plenty of attention!
While I appreciate what you do, it seemed as if this particular review was not very objective, instead relying more on feelings and anecdotes.
Instead of writing about the touching stories of the TST combine participants, I think it would be preferable to address some of the concerns and complaints expressed by those in this comment section.
Do they really string traders along? What are the exact costs? Are their requirements too stringent or inconsistent? These are far more germane than the feel-good stories you’re planning to make.
The comments here show just how dumb and lazy some of your readers are!
For F’sake read the TST website, it’s all there in plain sight!
If you can’t trade profitably on sim, don’t join!!!!
Alex: Sim trading is only ok for newbies that have never clicked the clicker ie mouse.
BY most part Topstep Trader is a Carnival Act. Go to the show and try to get the basketball into the net.. come to find out the net is higher the rim is smaller. I know you “YES YOU” can trade sim of a 150k account and profit 9k in 30 days and then some! do this 10 times and you’ll wack a 70% im sure. Thats why only a very small % stay on with them.go live is different!! Sorry the excuse of “Now they are on their own” doesnt cut it. considering it takes time to build a residual income then why not have Topstep account as your “side” cash if your doing well… the more accounts the better!! heck you can even trade 10 different accounts with one click as order routing is very helpful.
Trading is a tough game.. far different from pit trading. You must ask yourself does anybody at topstep trade anymore? where are their statements? Im guessing like most pit traders , they are finding that chart trading is difficult for them. Heck im sure they are trying to learn it as we speak. great example Floored the documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=–H8SY334Zw
Topstep is good in a way, because the boys know the inside action. the workings so to speak I personally think they are a bit too high priced for newbies.
Have you ever seen a negative comment about them from the hundreds of traders that have passed and “went on their own” what about positive ones with true paper work? Read between the lines…. the invisible ink says to me…… a binding Contract that forbids them from talking about the program. Have you ever thought about the “experts” that show up? they are suppose be be traders and very successful…. if TopStep had all this money why not give it to them?? why bother with the 19 year old wannabe?, because they are sympethetic?
I think the guys there are nice fellas…. they really are! IF they were more transparent even better. To have a 3% draw drawn is rough stuff you cant get your feet wet considering many CTA’s have a 30% draw down. Having enough cash in the tilt with a good trader will always recoup the loss.
Steve:
Does it matter whether the ex-pit traders, office admin, my mom etc can screen trade profitably or not? No their not doing the Combine nor looking to be funded!
If you think TST is for noobs, then yes, there’s a lot of clowns paying to be part of the Carnival Act
Have you ever seen a negative comment about them? Yes, I”ve read the complete thread about them on BMT.
if TopStep had all this money why not give it to them?
WTF? What money? are they publicly listed? how cares?
Would you give away money you legitimately earned?, like everyone else?
Really, I don’t get why it’s so hard for people to understand?
It’s for funding, that’s it, no education, no hopes and dreams.
@Jordan, I agree (the review was a bit ‘too good to be true’) and if Emmett, can interview people, they will talk about it.
Some have mentioned issues on the TST newest funded trader interviews, but they don’t dwell or make a big deal about it… it’s more like another day another trade kinda thing IMO.
Hi Alex:
Top Step, does indeed through another company fund accounts ie it’s theirs. I dont know what they do with the rest. Dont you think If they were traders and set up the program that they should at least pass it? Its like going to the doctor to lose weight and he’s fatter than you! It’s my opinion. I understand Its just a recruitment vehicle this way they are exempt from any scrutiny from CFTC NFA.
Lets look at things from a different angle. BTW the $1500 Emmett was talking about was probably based a 30k account where you have 1,500 to play with. Now ask How much did it cost to get to that point?
1. You have Pro pit guys that never showed you they can trade well
2. You have a system that passes hundreds of people per year via paper trading, but most fail trading real money????
3. Your gift to trade is really like Emmett mentioned $1,500 USD or you are done. Do you think there really is 30k there?
TopStep does hit the message home. to trade well preserve your capital etc. They have 90,000 people a month going to their site. so there is a need for funding and thats all they can deliver with many caveats. I think a person is better off (newbie) doing sim on their own adhere to the riggors and self fund.
When they start offering real opportunities for funding then they will hit the ball out of the park . And that is
1. Take my $1500 and let me trade it with leverage
2. I understand you need to make money so here is my $400 entrance fee. and when I lose the 1,500 my way ..im done ..till next installment. That is what most want, not this extensive combine thing
And please dont tell me your worried I may lose it, cause you didnt to the guy that popped $400 each time to the 150k dream account. Let me worry about my money. Offer something real like this… Offer the other stuff to kids that have no clue.
I think a lot of people sign up for Top Step Trader thinking that if they pass the 50k-150k combine, then they get a funded account for that same amount. That is flat wrong. The very most you get is an account with $1,500. That’s the whole enchilada. You can never get more than $1,500, ever. People need to let this sink into their heads.
And I think a lot of people also want to try it out because of ego. They have something to prove.
And yet others have trading services that they are looking to market and they need a third party, independent source to verify results.
Hello!
Thank you for your review!
I think I do not understand this $1500 discussion quite well.
If you pass a Combine that let you trade 5 contracts, at least you will need $5000 intraday margin to trade CrudeOil, for instance, right?
Cheers,
Hi Pedro,
OH man, I really need to get a comprehensive review written about the funded portion of the program.
The focus of my new review will be on the horde of people that immediately flunk out of the funded portion and then get pushed back into those monthly payments and yet another combine. The survival rate is nearly zero.
I have way too many complaints at this point to continue to recommend. And since new competitors are coming online, then you should hold off until then.
Emmett
Nobody talks about the real flaw in the TopStepTrader model…once a trader clears all of hurdles and finally gets a funded account, that account is a measly $1,500. Lose that and your done. Back to the combine and those monthly fee’s. And so your carnival analogy is not too far off, a person who wins the game is given a token stuffed animal. $1,500 is truly pathetic and really pretty laughable.
On the other hand, what TopStepTrader does is instill discipline and accountability. Learn this and your way ahead of the game.
TopStepTrader has a few pluses, a lot more negatives. But in the end, I am hoping that more competition comes into play. More competition means a better deal for the traders.
“that account is a measly $1,500”?
Where did you get this from?
Traders passing the combine and prep get the account/lots they passed.
TST is disingenuous and so is this article.
Full transparency – my a$$…
When you pass a combine you will not get funded you will be on a simulator for another 2-8 weeks, with stricter rules. This is free but it already shows the purpose of the combine is to earn money from something many brokerage companies offer for free.
Do the maths, a 150K account, gives you 15 contracts, but the day margins on those contracts (which by TST rules you must close at the end of the day) is only 2k area… so the real funding is not 150K, it’s more like 25-30K.
An arbitary loss limit decided by the computer is no way to trade… sure the point is to avoid it, but there’ s no difference between a $2999 loss and a $3010 loss, expect you have to pay another $400 to repeat. The computer cut off could work in the traders favor and support a return the next day to recover… but of course that wouldn’t be as profitable on credit card sales.
How can a company that takes on 200 traders in a year, offer any genuine support or development to any of them. They don’t even know who you are, just a no# on a screen. TST are not helping traders, they are trading the traders. It’s just a sweat shop, where you run your own business and they earn no matter what you do.
Do your own FREE paper trading and raise your own $20k….. and find some real online community not a fake and expensive one.
Hi Richard,
I actually agree with much of what you are saying. I really do. I too have had some real reservations about “the combine, after the combine”, a trader should get his funded account. And he should not have to wait. However, I do not own the company and I dont make the rules.
I really want this company to survive and to thrive. At some point, we should see some more competitors offering a valid and legitimate alternative. I have been contacted by other start ups, but I will not endorse until I can verify the existence of the start up fund. Long story short, we need to see more competition in the space, which will create a more liberal experience for the end user.
As far as TopStepTrader offering any “real support or development”, they simply do not want to be an educator, they are only looking to fund traders and nothing more.
Thanks for the comment and I hope to read more of your opinions in the futures.
Emmett
Emmett, you’ve got some tough critics. Just like any internet site where commenters can hide. Keep on given us those reviews Emmett. You do a great job. I know the TST guys and they do a good job and it’s a wonderful business model for an aspiring trader.
Emmett I appreciate your honesty thus far but TopstepTrader is an unethical company who flat out LIES to their customers. I can prove it. The website states “If you meet the objective of the Trading Combine®, you’re eligible for a risk-free funded account.”
Another page states “Meet the Combine objective, get funded. It’s that simple.” Well no it’s not that simple, that’s a bold face LIE to the traders they make go through an additional combine called funded trader preparation after they did exactly what was requested by meeting the combine objectives. Stick up for the little man here by seeing how TopstepTrader is not being truthful and call them out on it.
Thank you.
TST is BS and they are getting rich off noobs. Pass combine then pass another combine and then we will pull your account if you make a tiny mistake in this fine print over here.
TST is for noobs imho. If you pass a combine then they make you do it again (they call it funded trader prep), they have all these little rules and you can easily drop your funded status if you break the rules. If you have passed a 5 lot combine (and FTP) still they make you start with 1-2 lots and build up (you can start with AMP for $500 an ES lot). TST is a great business model for TST, They make money on failures.
I’m sorry but this sounds like a very biased review.
What TST needs is one or two more competitors so that they loosen the rules. I have been contacted by a couple of other firms that are gearing up and will be competing, with lighter restrictions.
It’s not for noobs, it’s for funding… they’re looking for PROFITABLE traders not WANNA BE traders.
If you can pass a combine then why worry about passing the FTP, it’s free?
Wrong, You start with the max lot size you passed the combine with?
I’ve lighted up on them now that they let you keep 100% of 5k.
No, your wrong, go read through the TST website.
@Ben_is_Cluelesss
I’m not a newb.. I’ve been around the block on a few markets.. that’s my educated opinion which no one has yet refuted.
I agree paying for a demo account is less dumb then starting fresh on a live account, but still dumb none the less.
“Important for TST to survive” lol, I guess they’re less evil, as their carrot (80% from zero) is real.
Goes to show how great the ‘Scheme’ is when other schemers want in on it.
Anyway, if people are dumb enough not to look into the details for themselves then they deserve their fate.. it’s all part of the fun & cool trading journey right 😛
Kindly review Savius LLC trading , they require $200 to take a 10 day trading test .
I just stumbled upon their site, I think they just started this year
Hi Nina,
Am already ahead of you. Have several others also in evaluation. More players coming onto the field.
Ben, you must be a NewB…how many people WISH they could only lose TST combine money rather than real money? the Answer TONS of people. You have no clue.
TST, doesn’t provide education, you’re paying to use a demo.
It’s another noobie trap.
TST IMO has zero purpose… it’s not eduction, it’s not for profitable traders because trading TST live is worse(20%) then trading your own account, even a small one (2-5k).
IMO, it’s good for people that don’t even have 2k for a live account and are profitable.
And for noobs, it’s not training, they have ‘guests’ which sell their products.
Also, if you fail as a noob, is because of your strategy, or a TST rule or the 10 day limit, etc?
TST, is not for beginners even though they advertise in noobie sites, ie: BMT, etc.
And a profitable trader wouldn’t use TST for funding and lose 20%.
It’s a clever business model, but if you look at the details of initial funding (everyone starts at zero and 1 lot) how the draw down works in live (trailing) it’s virtually risk free to TST.
Obviously you have a financial bias to say nice things about TST, but I ask you who and how does TST really benefit anyone?
I can only think of the poor idiots that go to put up 1-10k of risk capital without having a clue.. instead they’re bled out slowly on a demo and waist time chasing the TST carrot in a non-feed back loop.
The market teaches lesson not demo and not TST.
And if the market keeps taking your capital, it’s instant feedback.
Fair enough comment. However, when I start publishing articles of funded traders that have done very well, then perhaps you might begrudgingly give them a little credit.
Its important that TST survives and thrives. Why? Other companies, as we speak, are gearing up and are going to be offering their own versions of TST. With more liberal payouts, larger account sizes, easier to pass combines, etc. Its happening. TST is the first to the dance, but others are seeing the opportunity and this extra competition is going to bring this model into full bloom.
Obviously, I write a lot of negative stuff, but I am sure that this model is going to expand.
Also… Don’t bother reviewing live TST traders that trade while working a day job… Which almost all of them because of the tiny account and draw down rules.
Can you get a interview with oilwavesurfer?.. I trust him and he’ll tell you the truth.
Ben.
TST is a wolf in sleep clothing!
It doesn’t provide education.
Too many rules which change…
Basically their model is set up for many to fail so the few that pass have a tiny live account.
It relays on noobs fear but without providing much in return.
Emit did/could you pass a combine?
TST does not provide education. And that is a good thing. Really.
Yes, the awarded accounts are initially small. But some guys have also worked their way up and are trading big accounts. I should know.
Thanks for all your hard work here Emmett. It will hopefully save someone’s hard earned money chasing the dream. The reality is that it takes time and effort (and I mean lots of time and effort) to be a really good trader (someone told me that if you survive for six years — and that may include a couple of blowouts — but you continue tenaciously to trade, then you will probably be successful. But that’s 6 years. After all, lawyers and doctors and anyone making really good money trains for at least that long. Why should a career in trading be a shortcut to wealth? It doesn’t happen. In terms of Top Step, however, can you find out how much they give to a funded trader? Is it more than $4,000-$5000? How many of them get a decent account to trade, say $50,000 or at least $25,000
Hey Emmett, great review and article, have you ever done a review of Blue Point Trading or inquired about any of there services as a prop firm?
Yes, they are on the list to be reviewed. I have quite a few new entries that are attempting to emulate the TopStepTrader model. The TopStepTrader program is currently the gold standard in terms of legitimacy. My review was specifically written so that other firms getting into the game have a point of reference. My job is to figure out whom is real, and whom is not.
I am really hoping that we can get two or three more TopStepTrader competitors. Why? Because more legitimate competition means that these companies will have to ease off of their minimum performance requirements, as well as sweeten the incentives for the funded traders. Currently, TopStepTrader is able to entirely dominate the market, and this means that they are only willing to take the traders with nearly perfect performance. This needs to change. They need competition, and they need it badly. But it needs to be a real competitor, with verified financial backing, and verifiable funded traders. Stay tuned. Am sure more players are coming.
No problem.
Just a a suggestion, add the function to subscribe to comments so people are notified when new comments are added to the articles they have commented on.
Thumbs up on that I hate having to check all the time
Thanks for mentioning that. I just added a plug in for that.
I like your site..even though I wasn’t aware of most of the mentors/systems you review here, I had heard of other…like for instance Kavan…I mean what’s that all about, how can people send money to such a character.
After reading this article, I got the feeling that you’ve been bought by TST. Apart from that AC story, one just doesn’t make $300 trading in a parking lot to put better food on the table. That’s a fundamentally flawed picture of trading. Last time when I checked the facts for writing my review, there were no public stats of how many traders had been funded, with how much and for how long. If traders really want to get funded (and don’t want to go the sell signals route) they should check out Darwinex or fundseeder.com.
The guy in the parking lot. LOL. You have not heard anything yet! Going to be publishing once a month. Funny stuff for sure.
TopStepTrader gave me open access. For the entire year of 2014, they had 75 funded traders. When I began researching this article, which began a little over 2 months ago, I was given the contact information of 156 funded traders.
You are going to laugh at some of these characters that have passed the combine. But I also need to write about the people that have been stuck in the combine, month after month after month. And those that make it, drop out, make it, drop out, etc. These are great human stories.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCTDYMpdFhZU6Ivf3F2AEVUQ
TSTSquakRadio YOUTUBE CHANNEL uploading new videos of funded traders
Yes, I watched the videos. But the videos only describe a very limited experience. When I was able to actually speak with, and have more meaningful conversations with the funded traders, I discovered the human aspect of some of these funded traders. Some of these folks come from incredibly humble situations. When these funded traders give that recorded interview, they are nervous as hell and not comfortable speaking about personal struggles to the entire internet. Only after developing a relationship was I able to get them to really open up, and describe some harrowing and heart wrenching financial predicaments. These interviews dont talk about some of the extreme struggles that many of these combine graduates have had to endure, to make it to the big dance. Will be definitely spending more time writing about these people. Amazing stories.
i can’t think of anything more inspiring; after having sykes sell me my own broken dreams back to me; it is refreshing to see the possibilities that I still cling to. i cannot think of anything that i have ever been more interested in than your website, and I only discovered it about 5 days ago. keep it up; I appreciate you and your story.
I would love to read these real life stories! I don’t see what category on your site to find them.
Vlad,
I like your site. You and I seem to share the same unrewarding need to write about the truth. At least our our versions of it,
If you wouldnt mind, I would love to be able to republish some of your writings on my blog.
What a load of BS…the guy in the middle of nowhere, now being able to pay for AC all summer thanks to Top Step Trader…gimme a fuckin’ break. I reviewed this ‘business model’ which basically takes advantage of people who don’t know any better a while back on my site: http://www.jltrader.com/2015/01/29/get-funded-a-pitch-of-the-trading-dreams-factory/
I won’t be writing anymore now, I just have a feeling that my comment won’t be approved and don’t want to waste time.
I loved the article on your site. And no, you wont be banned for expressing your opinion.
Each month, I am going to be writing about some of the people that have passed the combine, and are now trading live. You are going to be really surprised at some of the modest folks that pop up. Really surprised. I was.
You have no idea how hard it is to find a positive story about trading products. Seriously, I sit here day after day and write about this stuff.
Not so fast. I tried this myself 2 years ago just because I wanted to see if it was BS or not. I exceeded the $50K combine first try and they tried to start me with a lower amount of capital.
This place is the special olympics of trading.
Lmao or maybe you are just smarter than 99% of people who try trading
LOL! Its true, its definitely the special Olympics. But hey, if a guy can make it through the combine, and stick around, then he has a promising future.
I spoke with one trader that made it, stuck around and this gave him the confidence to apply at a “Traditional” firm, now he is on desk with a salary and a percentage of trading profits. I see TopStepTrader as a launch pad for greater things. But its a great start for those with little capital and not much experience.
Atleast they are legitimate, am I right?
Definitely legit. Its a good company.
Convince them to do a stock combine and I’m in.
Great Review as usual Emmett!!! Now if we can just find some actual 5 Star Trading Rooms we can all get funded and move to Bora Bora! Lol
If this were true, I would already be in Bora Bora with 2 Polynesian ladies.
Excellent review Emmett! Currently working on a combine myself.
The people that have made it through the combine are far more interesting than the combine itself. I could of written page after page describing the journey that many of these people have taken. Very inspiring.
I hope you make it! You will have to come back and share your story.
OMG, a positive review at long last! Great work Emmet!
-RV
Finally a positive story.
My next goal is start peppering in stories of real people that have made it and are living their dreams.
Emett, as much as I REALLY want to believe you, it sounds too good to be true. Did you do any work on the veracity of the 80/20 split? After what I’ve been through….I honestly just cannot believe this is true, especially with the comments above that are more recent about someone using the wrong ‘promo’ code and not being accepted. If you could convince me of their legitimacy i’d be very grateful, perhaps i’m just bitter about whats happened to me with other firms in chicago. I cannot imagine trading a 100k account and getting to keep 80%…its absurd. I hope you’re right though. I know of a hedge fund that funds up to million of dollars and the split is only 20% (even if your account is only 25k)–and its very reputable …and 20% sounds much ..much more legitimate than you keep 80%. Prove me wrong, and thanks for the article!
Best
Whom ever said that get a 100k account to trade? That is preposterous. If you pass the combine and pass the prefunding stage, then you get the opportunity to lose $1,500. Thats all there is.
I´m still waiting on the update to TST… i have spend some money there hook on the “dream” to be a funded trader and now i have allmost no doubt that its only a scheme to profit from the underfunded wanabe traders.
But they are “nice” and well spoken and make you feel like you are doing something legit and proven… is that so emmet?
Nice job Emmett. Your work on this blog is having a positive influence by countering the BS of sites like Investimonials. Hopefully more honest firms and traders will step forward and ask you to review them.
Wow awesome! What I’ve been waiting to see. Going to have to agree that the specifics were lacking in this review but based on your other reviews I get the idea lol. Exciting opportunity.
I did leave out a lot of specifics. But I had so much territory to cover that I felt it best to focus two things: the question of legitimacy, and stories of the people participating.
The people, and their journey through this crazy thing we call trading, are really the fun stuff.
I hope some stock trading prop shops open up aswell, and don’t worry about the specs if you think you can trade you can figure them out yourself fairly easily.
Hello TRADERS all around the world, do you really want to have a chance at getting funded ? This is the answer, FREE FUNDING at http://www.mescapitalgroup.com. Give the trial a shot for FREE. Stop paying to trade demo. Just prove yourself worthy, follow the rules, get funded and get scaled. Rewarded with $50k account up to $1m. That simple. Enjoy!
Review on MES Capital coming next week.
Has the review been done on MES Capital yet?
Thanks
I finished their combine and applied for funding and they told me I used a invalid promo code when signing up so I wasn’t eligible. They still took my money though. It’s a huge scam, don’t fall victim. I have the emails to prove it and screen shots of my combine to prove as well that I did pass it.